<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "GW and Hard Copies"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "GW and Hard Copies"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net GW and Hard Copies
I wish GW would take a note out of the digital video game book. Use Steam service as an example.

The whole hard copy thing is stupid and out dated.

Using a digital subscription and list builder would get rid of the nonsense of having to use multiple sources of information to play a damn game. Codex, supplements, faq's, etc etc.

Why not something like

*Buy a year long sub for the rule book.
*Buy an add-on for a codex or supplement of your choice when they come out. You need a BRB sub and a Codex Orks sub to play them.
*Include a digital army builder that takes info from your purchased subs and helps you make a list, that can printed or used digitally. Your list builder would use the BRB and your Orks Codex. Want to make an Eldar list? You need to buy the Eldar codex subscription.
*Any changes to rules, points cost etc gets updated digitally and changes any information with a patch like update. Real time, and EVERYONE is on the same page. ALL information for your purchased information in ONE place. I am not a fan of trying to google a rule or stat in a middle of a game that was FAQ'd a week ago that my opponent was not aware of. Also not a fan of having to flip through 4 different hard copies of books to find a unit rule/info.

If GW would spend more resources on software developers, and less time on print, information and updates could come much faster, and updated regularly. As it is now, they make the rules, unit info, etc. Get it to layout. Send it to print.....etc. etc... Think about the possibility of releasing specific army information at the SAME time...or close to it. Being able to not only release them across the board, but able to update them as needed on the fly. How could this be bad?

Oh, but what about people who like books and artwork and stacks of books? Sure, print the books with painting guides, fluff, and pictures of models for people who like to look at the books, or use them in conjunction with a digital list. But make that a secondary item, and more of a collector thing and not a necessary item.

Think about how much time this would cut between codex releases, supplements and whatnot. Think about how EASY it would be to balance units moving forward, or make changes dynamically instead of having to wait for it to be printed or digging to find a FAQ.

People will continue to use digital list builders. Its not going away. Why not get on-board instead of trying to fight it? People will continue to use seedy ways to getting codex/rules. Why not give them a REASON to buy them legit instead of trying to fight it? Hell, take advantage of it....

I just wish with the "New GW" like movement they are still stuck in the past.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474330.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474330.page GMT GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474349.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474349.page GMT GW and Hard Copies tbh Vaxx.
The counter argument is that digital can be pirated much more than hardcopies though.

However GW are definitely behind the times in their online/software capabilities. Hell it took them 25 years to develope and launch the community website.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474388.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474388.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

godardc wrote:
I hate steam. I really love my hard copy. If I pay for something, I want something in my hands.

Ok. Then buy your hard copy. At the same time, you can have access to the digital version as well. And not have to deal with looking up FAQ's and erratas (digitally I might add) when they come out.

I have not bought a hard copy PC game in years. Why have a box with a disc in it taking up space in my office? Also, I assume when patches come out for your games you updated them digitally as well....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474390.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474390.page GMT GW and Hard Copies AoS.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474392.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474392.page GMT Re:GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474415.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474415.page GMT GW and Hard Copies
Considering the rather frustrating layout of the Indexes, this is something I am seriously considering doing for my T'au with some card, Photoshop and a laminator. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474497.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9474497.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

Vaxx wrote:

godardc wrote:
I hate steam. I really love my hard copy. If I pay for something, I want something in my hands.

You don't know, but I made the exact same thread long ago, arguing that GW should give a digital copy with every physical copy.
I got this idea thanks to the "ultraviolet" label.

Funny how, as the time pass, people keep having the same idea

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475175.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475175.page GMT GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475236.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475236.page GMT GW and Hard Copies FW.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475310.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475310.page GMT Re:GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475319.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475319.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

godardc wrote:
I hate steam. I really love my hard copy. If I pay for something, I want something in my hands.

I love Steam. I love my hard copy. The smell of a new book. Occasionally flipping through to admire the images. I'll never leave books behind.

They could do with a tandem hard copy / digital copy for an extra $10 or something though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475330.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475330.page GMT Re:GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475339.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475339.page GMT GW and Hard Copies GW.
They literally just realised a year ago there's a thing called the internet and perhaps it would be a good idea to reach out to the community and social media.

GW is like your old grandfather that has a Facebook account he can barely manage to use and words like 'youtube', 'Snapchat', 'instagram' or 'twitter' confuses him.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475343.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475343.page GMT GW and Hard Copies OP want a 'War Room' app for 40k?

good luck.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475379.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475379.page GMT GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475392.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475392.page GMT GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475403.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475403.page GMT GW and Hard Copies
Still have hard copies, but also software copies that automatically update whenever FAQs get released. Sadly I don't think they do the latter part for 40k, only AoS.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475410.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475410.page GMT GW and Hard Copies If GW went full digital I'd be done with this hobby. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475416.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475416.page GMT GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475426.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475426.page GMT GW and Hard Copies OP) ridiculous idea came through and you subscribed to codexes and army building Id quit this hobby so fast you'd get the whiplash it just wouldnt be worth it for me to pay what would surely be an astronomical cost from this company for something I use rarely. The beauty of books is their permanence and I can play 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 7th edition at any time I felt the want or desire. Your idea not only cheapens the quality of the product but they would still charge as much or more than they already do for something worth much less]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475514.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475514.page GMT GW and Hard Copies
For reference, though? Such a pain. And GW only seems to want to do 2 versions- a stripped down one that has no useful features for flipping to meaningful content, or a stupidly expensive, overly bloated file size with too many crap features that get in the way of usability. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475524.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475524.page GMT GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475529.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475529.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

warhead01 wrote:

If GW went full digital I'd be done with this hobby.

This.

Digital books can go

themselves.
I hate reading rules on a tablet or on a phone (let alone the fact that I don't own a tablet nor do I plan on getting one.)

I want a (hardback) codex/book in my hand.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475832.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475832.page GMT GW and Hard Copies FAQ changes actually make it in the digital copies, I have not compared.

I also like physical books though, but I've always prefered soft covers over the hard backs that GW are making now. For 8th I was hoping for a small, soft cover BRB in the starter set (you know, like they've done for a long time before 8th) as well as soft cover indexes and codexes. The indexes are soft cover, which is great, but the codexes will be hard cover. That annoys me.

If all changes with erratas and FAQs made it into the digital copies, and they were 100% up to date, that is always the best option for me at least. Who wants to carry around 3 or 4 books, along with a set of printed out FAQ and errata pages, or alternatively actually writing the changes in the books, or using sticky notes to indiciate a change in points or whatever. It's just old fashioned and cumbersome.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475875.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475875.page GMT GW and Hard Copies faqs tacked onto the end.

Edit: An official list builder app would be great though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475931.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475931.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

Vaxx wrote:

If GW would spend more resources on software developers, and less time on print, information and updates could come much faster, and updated regularly. As it is now, they make the rules, unit info, etc. Get it to layout. Send it to print.....etc. etc... Think about the possibility of releasing specific army information at the SAME time...or close to it. Being able to not only release them across the board, but able to update them as needed on the fly. How could this be bad?

Oh, but what about people who like books and artwork and stacks of books? Sure, print the books with painting guides, fluff, and pictures of models for people who like to look at the books, or use them in conjunction with a digital list. But make that a secondary item, and more of a collector thing and not a necessary item.

You know there are people who prefer looking rules from real books? I find out rules I need faster from my books than any android app I have ever tried for reading. Plus books dont' run out of battery all the time like phone does.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475938.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9475938.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

godardc wrote:
I hate steam. I really love my hard copy. If I pay for something, I want something in my hands.

Same here. I don't want something I cannot read if my tablet/phone is not charged. Flipping pages is much easier than scrolling on a device. My book will not be trashed by a random SW update.

If people like e-books then that is fine but I will stick with ink and paper (read by candle-light :p ) thank you very much. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476154.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476154.page GMT GW and Hard Copies GW players who hate modern technology.
GW is experimenting with digital rules and subscriptions on the aos app but I don't see a lot of talk about it.
GW stopped doing enhanced battletomes for AoS because no-one was buying them.
GW has said they will do a 40k app at some point but I don't see it being anything more than a useful additional tool.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476172.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476172.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

Chikout wrote:
Tabletop gaming is a very physical thing. I think there are a disproportionately large number of GW players who hate modern technology.
GW is experimenting with digital rules and subscriptions on the aos app but I don't see a lot of talk about it.
GW stopped doing enhanced battletomes for AoS because no-one was buying them.
GW has said they will do a 40k app at some point but I don't see it being anything more than a useful additional tool.

I do not hate technology, I hate:
* paying to rent stuff
* being at the mercy of an online service
* hoping that my device will keep supporting updated versions

Physical Books suffer from none of the above.. corrections are easily made with pencil and/or a printed errata.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476188.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476188.page GMT GW and Hard Copies
On one hand, I don't find digital copies useful during a game. Good for referencing, but otherwise not exactly useful. Being able to flick through the pages quickly during a game is what books are good for.

On the other hand, GW charges waaaaaay too much for their hardback books. AUD$83 was the price for the 6th/7th Ed books. I can't imagine they'll be getting any cheaper. And I don't need hardback books. Softbacks are easier to flip through.

On the other, other hand, plasma guns explode in the dark of night for some reason, so Imma wait 'til the fix this gak before diving in too deep.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476203.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476203.page GMT GW and Hard Copies
I rather microtransaction system]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476210.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476210.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

Shandara wrote:

Chikout wrote:
Tabletop gaming is a very physical thing. I think there are a disproportionately large number of GW players who hate modern technology.
GW is experimenting with digital rules and subscriptions on the aos app but I don't see a lot of talk about it.
GW stopped doing enhanced battletomes for AoS because no-one was buying them.
GW has said they will do a 40k app at some point but I don't see it being anything more than a useful additional tool.

You forgot being at the mercy of the fickle smart device battery gods.

Play near an outlet lest you be smiten by them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476217.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476217.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm torn.

On one hand, I don't find digital copies useful during a game. Good for referencing, but otherwise not exactly useful. Being able to flick through the pages quickly during a game is what books are good for.

On the other hand, GW charges waaaaaay too much for their hardback books. AUD$83 was the price for the 6th/7th Ed books. I can't imagine they'll be getting any cheaper. And I don't need hardback books. Softbacks are easier to flip through.

On the other, other hand, plasma guns explode in the dark of night for some reason, so Imma wait 'til the fix this gak before diving in too deep.

I'm hoping they got the AoS route where there are Hardbacks for release and then after a month or 2 (max) they are replaced with cheaper (like '20% off the hardbacks' cheaper) softbacks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476218.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476218.page GMT Re:GW and Hard Copies
I don't have a tablet, I have no need for a tablet, I don't want to fork out for a tablet (which will be reasonably expensive for any half decent one). Just to play 40k. I also don't want to then have to carry around my expensive tablet whenever I go to play 40k.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476418.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476418.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

Zewrath wrote:
Think you're asking for too much here, especially from GW.
They literally just realised a year ago there's a thing called the internet and perhaps it would be a good idea to reach out to the community and social media.

GW is like your old grandfather that has a Facebook account he can barely manage to use and words like 'youtube', 'Snapchat', 'instagram' or 'twitter' confuses him.

History lesson: GW was well aware of the internet in the 90's, and even hosted community forums. Unfortunately those forums devolved into a cesspit of nerd rage, and GW dropped it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476511.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476511.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

Insectum7 wrote:

Zewrath wrote:
Think you're asking for too much here, especially from GW.
They literally just realised a year ago there's a thing called the internet and perhaps it would be a good idea to reach out to the community and social media.

GW is like your old grandfather that has a Facebook account he can barely manage to use and words like 'youtube', 'Snapchat', 'instagram' or 'twitter' confuses him.

History lesson: GW was well aware of the internet in the 90's, and even hosted community forums. Unfortunately those forums devolved into a cesspit of nerd rage, and GW dropped it.

Bit of perspective: GW was being GW, people were calling them out for it on those forums, it devolved into nerd rage and the forums got shut down. It wasn't all people's fault.
GW has recently gotten a lot better, but they held on to their "zero transparency" for a long time, and back then it was legendary. They were the opposite of a company that thrives on active and open community feedback, and they realised that after a while.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476526.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476526.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

Insectum7 wrote:

Zewrath wrote:
Think you're asking for too much here, especially from GW.
They literally just realised a year ago there's a thing called the internet and perhaps it would be a good idea to reach out to the community and social media.

GW is like your old grandfather that has a Facebook account he can barely manage to use and words like 'youtube', 'Snapchat', 'instagram' or 'twitter' confuses him.

History lesson: GW was well aware of the internet in the 90's, and even hosted community forums. Unfortunately those forums devolved into a cesspit of nerd rage, and GW dropped it.

There's a reason they were nicknamed "The Eye of Terror".

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476599.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476599.page GMT GW and Hard Copies
I was expecting different opinions, but was NOT expecting so many negative comments, and so many people stuck in their ways.

Not only that, but why are people acting like it is one or the other? I am talking about being able to have both. One for the "Digital is EVIL" people, and one for people who like real time data, in once place, easily accessed and updated.

I am just dreaming obviously. But having information come in real time and being able to get raw data and rules, and updates without the long delay (and price) of the print process just seems awesome to me. While still able to buy your books....when they are done being printed.

So, sorry for being a heretic and suggesting something so blasphemous.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476609.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476609.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

Vaxx wrote:
I was unaware that a lot people on this forum are against something that I would consider "moving forward" or "stream lining", while still keeping the hard back stuff everyone seems to love.

I was expecting different opinions, but was NOT expecting so many negative comments, and so many people stuck in their ways.

Not only that, but why are people acting like it is one or the other? I am talking about being able to have both. One for the "Digital is EVIL" people, and one for people who like real time data, in once place, easily accessed and updated.

I am just dreaming obviously. But having information come in real time and being able to get raw data and rules, and updates without the long delay (and price) of the print process just seems awesome to me. While still able to buy your books....when they are done being printed.

So, sorry for being a heretic and suggesting something so blasphemous.

Nah, over 800 people have viewed this thread so you're only hearing from a vocal minority.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476614.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476614.page GMT Re:GW and Hard Copies TO generate a seed, and push it out to each table, where each player subsequently . Sure, there's the risk of that one mathematician sniffing out the seed, precalculating every result from the Mersenne Twister, etc, but that sort of math on-the-fly is rare, and far harder to pull off than dice-cheating. The real benefit would just be speeding the game up, as 40k games have become increasingly bogged down in way too many die rolls!

Take pic related. A single Razorwing Flock is 7 points, but gets 8 attacks. They only hit on 5, and usually only wound on 6. Their reliability goes up considerably with a Beastmaster (letting it reroll to hit), and vs a Doomed Target (letting it reroll to wound). Yes, you can cut a Stormraven's wounds in half, but do you want to roll over 200 dice to resolve the attacks of a single 70-point unit?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476670.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476670.page GMT Re:GW and Hard Copies

I was unaware that a lot people on this forum are against something that I would consider "moving forward" or "stream lining", while still keeping the hard back stuff everyone seems to love.

I was expecting different opinions, but was NOT expecting so many negative comments, and so many people stuck in their ways.

Not only that, but why are people acting like it is one or the other? I am talking about being able to have both. One for the "Digital is EVIL" people, and one for people who like real time data, in once place, easily accessed and updated.

I am just dreaming obviously. But having information come in real time and being able to get raw data and rules, and updates without the long delay (and price) of the print process just seems awesome to me. While still able to buy your books....when they are done being printed.

So, sorry for being a heretic and suggesting something so blasphemous.

I'm totally fine with an option for digital and physical books, but if they went exclusively digital I'd be pretty upset. If they went exclusively digital and on a subscription model, I'd be out. 100% out. The subscription model tends to lead towards laziness on the company's part (Hi Adobe. Also

Adobe ...), and almost always ends up NOT being in the consumer's best interest.

In terms of why I would dislike digital only (even if it wasn't a subscription model) - My tablet was too expensive for me to risk dragging it around to a game store where it can easily be lost/damaged/stolen. While I could use my phone, there's nothing worse than having to pass your phone around every time someone needs to see a rule and reading rules off that tiny screen is already kind of lame to begin with. Then there's those times when you're playing someone and their tablet freezes at that crucial moment and you now need to wait while they trouble shoot it. "Ok, I'm gonna take a restroom break. BRB." "I'm back - how's it going? Oh good! You got it restar ... wait what? What do you mean it borked your copy of the codex? Wait for you to download it again?"

No thanks.

Even when someone has proper tech with all the updates AND they've properly tabbed/bookmarked their digital book, it still takes way longer than just flipping to an actual page. Sometimes having a digital copy IS nice. It's great for those times when you're out and about and have an idea you want to check on or something like that, but for actual practical gaming purposes, I've never found the digital copies to be as good as the actual physical books.

EDIT:

Think about how much time this would cut between codex releases, supplements and whatnot. Think about how EASY it would be to balance units moving forward, or make changes dynamically instead of having to wait for it to be printed or digging to find a FAQ.

I missed this in your original post. Obviously no one can say for certain, but I'd be willing to bet heavily on this NOT saving much time at all. Fact is, GW just has odd dev. cycles. A lot of folks don't realize this, but laying out the print version in this day and age actually doesn't (or I guess I should say SHOULDN'T) have any effect what-so-ever on the digital version. This is because they are no longer mutually exclusive packages. They can, to a large extent be built nearly simultaneously from the same file and it doesn't even require a ton of hi-end coding to do it.

So, the release cycle should already be sped up. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476675.page GMT GW and Hard Copies OP wants to have - the recent digital copies in 7th had exactly what he's suggesting, no? When Fenris I came out the digital copy of the 4 years old Daemon codex got updated with the new rules.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476746.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476746.page GMT Re:GW and Hard Copies
I am talking about a service and application that is different from the book format. A platform that has all the rules and updates....raw information always up to date. Somewhat like BattleScribe but on steroids and supported by GW.

The reason people are complaining about "Flipping through pages" in a digital file is because its an exact copy of the book....with pictures, and other information that is not needed.

When I say digital, I dont mean an exact copy of a book that is great to sit down and look through. I mean a lean app that gives you rules, units, army info in order to play the game. After your done gaming, go home and cuddle up with your book to read the fluff and see pretty pictures.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476768.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476768.page GMT GW and Hard Copies . I guess the app they were mentioning when 8th ed. started could be what you wish for. We'll just have to see.
I must admit a subscription model wouldn't be something I'd support. I'm not even paying for the miniwargaming vault even though I really like these guys - it's just that I don't have the time to make this investment useful

. And with army builders online everywhere and me liking a hardcopy I don't think it would be something I'd pay for. But I can totally see where you're coming from.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476791.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476791.page GMT GW and Hard Copies http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476893.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476893.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

The quick updates can't be that quick updates as that would invalidate the books too fast. That would basically be same as no physical books in the first place.

"Yeah you can have physical book. Too bad it's useless faster than you get to say whoops"

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MagicJuggler wrote:
This is only tangentially related, but I do wish that there was a universally accepted die-rolling app that could be adopted, both for pickup play, as well as for tournaments: In the second case, you could have the TO generate a seed, and push it out to each table, where each player subsequently . Sure, there's the risk of that one mathematician sniffing out the seed, precalculating every result from the Mersenne Twister, etc, but that sort of math on-the-fly is rare, and far harder to pull off than dice-cheating. The real benefit would just be speeding the game up, as 40k games have become increasingly bogged down in way too many die rolls!

Take pic related. A single Razorwing Flock is 7 points, but gets 8 attacks. They only hit on 5, and usually only wound on 6. Their reliability goes up considerably with a Beastmaster (letting it reroll to hit), and vs a Doomed Target (letting it reroll to wound). Yes, you can cut a Stormraven's wounds in half, but do you want to roll over 200 dice to resolve the attacks of a single 70-point unit?

Nice idea but of course randomness of that is bit of a question.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476968.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9476968.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

tneva82 wrote:

Vaxx wrote:
I was unaware that a lot people on this forum are against something that I would consider "moving forward" or "stream lining", while still keeping the hard back stuff everyone seems to love.

I was expecting different opinions, but was NOT expecting so many negative comments, and so many people stuck in their ways.

Not only that, but why are people acting like it is one or the other? I am talking about being able to have both. One for the "Digital is EVIL" people, and one for people who like real time data, in once place, easily accessed and updated.

I am just dreaming obviously. But having information come in real time and being able to get raw data and rules, and updates without the long delay (and price) of the print process just seems awesome to me. While still able to buy your books....when they are done being printed.

So, sorry for being a heretic and suggesting something so blasphemous.

The quick updates can't be that quick updates as that would invalidate the books too fast. That would basically be same as no physical books in the first place.

"Yeah you can have physical book. Too bad it's useless faster than you get to say whoops"

But doesn't that happen now with rule changes, erratas, points, and other information? Invalidating information that you spent $40+ on I mean?

For instance the information in the DI DG data cards that is over written by the Chaos Index, that will be over written by the Codex when it comes out? Didnt the first part already happen? The worst part is, its not ALL the info that is wrong, just SOME of it. Therefore instead of one source of info, you need multiple sources of books to carry and reference......or just use a tablet and know that the info is up date.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9477084.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9477084.page GMT Re:GW and Hard Copies

I am talking about a service and application that is different from the book format. A platform that has all the rules and updates....raw information always up to date. Somewhat like BattleScribe but on steroids and supported by GW.

This makes more sense but still has issues that I personally would rather not deal with. There are a ton of free options for this that already do a decent job and don't require monthly/yearly fees. Plus, there's still the issue of not really being super psyched to bring my tablet to the game store. I suppose that works well if you're lucky enough to have a group that doesn't need a store, but where I live, the only place we can all get to is the LGS and there's no way my tablet is going there with me.

Plus, with this option you risk even more in terms of the company getting lazy. If they were to get this up and running ( I know they were talking about something like it but I've lost track of that discussion), my fear is that, like most other companies that have pushed out similar subscription models, the product will suffer. If they no longer need to update the physical or ePUB books because everything is going into that subscription based app, then it will only be a matter of time before they hit a pre-determined threshold and kill the physical books and the ePUBs, and raise the subscription price by a significant amount. So we lose the books that have the cool images and background fluff that got so many of us into the hobby in the first place. Then, proper production/updates start to incrementally slow as they hit their next subscriber threshold. It's how these work and the primary reason companies push these models. Steady revenue stream that requires comparatively little innovation/upkeep but ultimately delivers a lesser product to the consumer. It works because the "modern consumer" doesn't generally think long-term. Only what's right in front of them right now. "So I can have everything in my tablet for $10 a month and not need books anymore!? Sign me up!" Fast forward a few years and it's "Remember how cool codexes used to be? I miss those. Plus, the $50 a month sub fee is a bit much now ..." No thanks.

I would certainly be down with that as an option from GW, but IDK how much I trust them to keep up with that, the physical books and the ePub/iBooks ...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9477161.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9477161.page GMT GW and Hard Copies

Vaxx wrote:
But doesn't that happen now with rule changes, erratas, points, and other information? Invalidating information that you spent $40+ on I mean?

For instance the information in the DI DG data cards that is over written by the Chaos Index, that will be over written by the Codex when it comes out? Didnt the first part already happen? The worst part is, its not ALL the info that is wrong, just SOME of it. Therefore instead of one source of info, you need multiple sources of books to carry and reference......or just use a tablet and know that the info is up date.

Yes but of course if whole book changes like that you can expect to pay electronic book freshly as well so no difference there. And you would have to pay for multiple sources for the app anyway. You really think GW would make it CHEAPER? You end up paying more or less same anyway. Just have app or ebook instead of books which might or might not work when you need it and ability to read it when you want not quaranteed. I can and still do read 2nd ed books(that's edition we play currently). With app I can't count on that anymore. If it was ebook/app version originally I might not be able to anymore use them. Top of that if it's continual payment system I will easily end up paying MORE for the rules than with physical books. "Cheap" 5€/month subscription for Chaos and whoops after year I have paid more than I would have paid for codex and generally I use codex more than for a year...Just like with adobe stuff where after a year you have generally paid more for the cloud versions than you would have paid for old style stuff which is why lightroom 6 is likely going to be last lightroom I get as that seems to be last version adobe sold besides cloud version.

And tablet doesn't work for thos who prefer books like me who find information lot faster on book than phone(small screen). Especially phone that's out of battery or which decide that it's out of internet connection so app stops working or whatever things software has done.

I have yet to read ebook/app system that's a) as easy as book b) as reliable as a book c) not end up paying more than a book. Generally I therefore end up paying more for worse product.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9477988.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9477988.page GMT GW and Hard Copies GW will continue to publish codexes because you all keep giving them money.

Please just publish the rules to play each army for free online without any of the fluff or scenic photography. No more codex for each army. Just keep the index system.

Just plain black and white, concise and laconic. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9478058.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9478058.page GMT GW and Hard Copies
I play a lot using a digital copy of the book/rules on my Ipad, so I'm not against that - just don't want a subscription type of service.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9478078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9478078.page GMT GW and Hard Copies
...I will suffer through and use digital copy if it is free, as long as it is also in a free format and not locked behind Apples.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9480320.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9480320.page GMT GW and Hard Copies
Wouldnt mind an app with dataslates similar to AoS warscolls though, that is the best thing GW ever did.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9480714.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/731720/9480714.page GMT