<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "What's agreed upon before a game?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net What's agreed upon before a game? apoc style games over 2500+ points, or at the very least letting your opponent know you plan to bring a super heavy.

I've only played for 2 years at this point starting in 7th edition, but I always agreed on knowing which army I was facing and letting my opponent know which one they would be playing against as well.

What are the normal requirements of a game that you usually agree upon?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517803.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517803.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517835.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517835.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
Back in 7th, I needed to discuss Flyers, FW (for some reason), superheavies, what interpretations of rules failures we would use, ask whether the game was "casual" or "competitive"...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517839.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517839.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517843.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517843.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
What do you normally agree upon before playing a game with someone? I have a friend who insists he doesn't need to tell opponents which army he plans on playing because it doesn't say in the rules that you have to. They also use this logic to bring super heavies into games under 2000 pts. I explain to him that just because you can doesn't mean you should, and the least you should agree upon is what army you are choosing so I have an idea of how to build a list. I'm also in the camp of super heavies only being brought in apoc style games over 2500+ points, or at the very least letting your opponent know you plan to bring a super heavy.

I've only played for 2 years at this point starting in 7th edition, but I always agreed on knowing which army I was facing and letting my opponent know which one they would be playing against as well.

What are the normal requirements of a game that you usually agree upon?

I would agree to not play with that person until and unless he grows reasonable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517846.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517846.page GMT Re:What's agreed upon before a game? TAC army that's ready to take on either Space Marines or Imperial Guard or Orks. I think it's generally better form not to ask what army someone else is going to bring until it's clearly too late for you to attempt any tailoring.

But of course you always have the right to just walk away if your opponent pulls out something really stupid. I don't think it makes sense to have a hard rule about superheavies or whatever. But if they're clearly being abusive -- if they dump a million Brimstone Horrors and Daemon Princes on the table -- you should just leave. If they bring a list that you think is not going to be at all fun to play against you can say that you don't want to play unless either they change something or you're allowed to swap in some counters. But of course you want to be careful with this because it's very easy to be TFG here and insist that whatever your opponent brings is overpowered and you should be allowed to tailor against it.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517848.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517848.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
I hugely prefer not to know the army I'm playing against. If you go to your LGS knowing you're facing Grey Knights or Orks it makes a huge difference... I think almost everyone would look at what they were thinking of bringing and find it really hard not to list tailor a bit! Even though I tend to play TAC lists, bringing multimeltas to a horde scrap feels like you're deliberately handicapping yourself.

If I rock up and discover what I'm up against, it feels more fun. Oh crap, 200 orks!


I would never bring a superheavy to a fight of 1999 points or below, I don't think. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with it, but it seems like 2000 is the new threshhold for that sort of unit.

I think you would also agree "Maelstrom?" or "Narrative - I'll be defender?" or similar.


Before we start playing - Terrain. Does standing ON that weird hill thing give the -1? Are those walls actually barricades? is that thingy a wood? And so on. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517852.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517852.page GMT Re:What's agreed upon before a game?
Personally, I would do the following in order:

Declare Matched Play Rules (duh)
Declare a Points Limit
Confirm Detachment Limit
Declare what Faction Keyword you are going to pick to be your Keyword. Alternatively, both agree to be super sekret about it to force a TAC list.
Build/Produce lists without knowledge of the exact makeup of your opponents list but with the knowledge of what keyword it is if agreed upon.
Decide what all the terrain does.
Fight

Basically, them saying "The rules don't say I have to waaa" makes them seem like total cockgoblins in my eyes. As long as both players know the others faction I think it's fair. "I'm Bringing Orks", "I'm Bringing Dark Elfdar", ok, lets build our lists in anticipation of what might commonly be brought by each others army. Ofc you might be sneaky and bring a very unconventional army. If he tools for Hoard Orks and you bring all Deff Dreds and DiggaNobz then he's in a bit of a pickle.

I personally make it clear before a game I don't want to play with or against flyers.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517858.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517858.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
I always saw list tailoring more as oh I see you've brought lots of tanks and high toughness stuff, let me squeeze in all these melta guns and lascannons I didn't originally intend to bring.

Don't want to be TFG.. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517862.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517862.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
I don't tell my opponents what army I'm bringing nor do I ask what they're bringing because I want both them and myself to bring what they want and write balanced lists rather than tailor their list to what they're opposing (or expect to oppose). Me and my friends played this way for years. We all had multiple armies and we'd not tell each other what we were playing until we were in a room together and setting up.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
... the least you should agree upon is what army you are choosing so I have an idea of how to build a list. I'm also in the camp of super heavies only being brought in apoc style games over 2500+ points, or at the very least letting your opponent know you plan to bring a super heavy.

I've only played for 2 years at this point starting in 7th edition, but I always agreed on knowing which army I was facing and letting my opponent know which one they would be playing against as well.


I agree with agreeing to superheavies but as I said, I disagree with knowing what your opponent is bringing. None of us own a super-heavy so it's never come up. I USED to own a hierophant biotitan but...well, I don't like to talk about it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517863.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517863.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
I did warn my group I'd start bringing a superheavy soon, though, and I don't plan to use it under 2000 points. I'll probably let them know when I plan to use it, as well, just to give them a heads up - but that will only happen for a bit. Once they're used to it being there sometimes, I won't be informing them it'll be used because they should know it might be showing up.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517870.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517870.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
What we don't want to play against

Time and place so it can be worked around both people]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517884.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517884.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
However, I have had experience with players who, if you tell them what army you're playing, will show up with a list designed to beat that army. All flamers and heavy bolters if you say orks or nids. All plasma if you say marines. Etc. So I can see where they're coming from. It's also sometimes fun to go "out of the box" and bring in a blind challenge as part of the fun. I've been loving the new Open Play missions, and have played a couple totally blind games where players brought between 100 and 150 power, where we used the Ruse and Sudden Death cards to balance if the forces seemed lopsided - it actually worked pretty well, with the Underdog pulling it out in 2/4 of the games I've played with it. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517908.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517908.page GMT Re:What's agreed upon before a game?
Example A:
"We're playing 1500, how about we don't discuss armies and just have at it?" ---- Cool, you bet.

Example B:
"The rulebook doesn't say I have to tell you anything about my army!" --- feth off.

If there is any animosity or arguing before a game begins (for any reason) I'm not even going to bother playing. That's just a sign that the whole 2-3 hours will be nitpicking, rules loop-holing, whining about results, etc. It's just a red flag. The person is either an amenable adult who wants to play a game and roll some dice and have fun, or they're not. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517928.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517928.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
Conversation looks like this. "I want to play tau or eldar" - "I want to play space marine or eldar" - "how about we do Tau vs Eldar? Xenos vs Xenos?" Sounds cool.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517949.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9517949.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
But when a friend and I play (I dont do randoms) we decide what army, and points. I see no reason not discuss that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518022.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518022.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518025.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518025.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? OP or UP). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518150.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518150.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518188.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518188.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
However, I almost never play strangers. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518436.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518436.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
However, we might casually discuss armies and such prior to the game.

Also, I'll sometimes ask people if they mind which faction I use.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518493.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518493.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
What do you normally agree upon before playing a game with someone? I have a friend who insists he doesn't need to tell opponents which army he plans on playing because it doesn't say in the rules that you have to. They also use this logic to bring super heavies into games under 2000 pts. I explain to him that just because you can doesn't mean you should, and the least you should agree upon is what army you are choosing so I have an idea of how to build a list. I'm also in the camp of super heavies only being brought in apoc style games over 2500+ points, or at the very least letting your opponent know you plan to bring a super heavy.

I've only played for 2 years at this point starting in 7th edition, but I always agreed on knowing which army I was facing and letting my opponent know which one they would be playing against as well.

What are the normal requirements of a game that you usually agree upon?


Tell your friend to grow up. Sneaking mini-titans and whatnot into the game are the true trademarks of a spike. If he doesn´t see reason avoid this guy like the plague. He is TFG and not you. Your most precious commodity is your time. DON´T waste it with jerks.
I have played in 3rd & 4th against my buddy and we both knew our opposing factions in advance. The matches were never dull and list-tailoring didn´t happen. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518759.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518759.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? PL and, if I'm not sure, some indication of how competitive. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518786.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518786.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? 40K isn't balanced well enough to competitively make army lists. Instead, it should be a collaborative process. You and your opponent should endeavor to bring lists that are well matched against each other so that the game result isn't determined before the game starts.

40K might get to that competitive standard some day, but until then army building is collaborative.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518801.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518801.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
1. Points level.
2. How they handle cocked dice -- i don't reroll them unless they are really hard to tell the result, but I'll let my opponent be the judge if it's close, whereas other people like to reroll all cocked dice no matter what. I like to establish this up front to avoid it coming up as an issue. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518830.page GMT Re:What's agreed upon before a game?
We do points. I sometimes will talk about what I'm thinking about running. Sometimes other people will too.

There's no superheavy or forgeworld discussions. Those are assumed to be present. Cocked dice COULD be a thing, I guess, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone do it weird or try to abuse it.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518838.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518838.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518870.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518870.page GMT Re:What's agreed upon before a game?
The only other rule we "HAD" was in 7th, I wouldn't play against more than one Super Heavy at 1500 points without warning, nor more than 2 Super Heavies at 1850 pts without warning. My most frequent opponent really likes Super Heavies, and if I knew ahead of time, I didn't mind facing 4 Knights, or 3 Wraith Knights... but I wanted to know ahead of time to list tailor so the game had a purpose. After about 2 games, we both agreed that more than 2 SH in a game was not much fun to play for either of us, anyhow. Either I knew what he had, and tailored to beat him, or didn't know what he had, and got roflstomped. No real counter play for either of us, so we didn't do that.

We might ask each other what the other is playing, though we all had a gentleman's agreement that if you didn't want to tell, you wouldn't ask. We each have at least 2 factions, so that could let us try a "surprise" list, if we were in the mood.

We've all played together for years, so we tend to just "know" what's what with terrain, though at an LGS I'd have a quick chat with my opponent to make sure we both agree how they work.

I generally ask if a person wants a cut-throat game, or a relaxed game, so that I don't crush a newb, or underplay my first turn to a competitive player.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518951.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518951.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
When playing with new people, the most important thing we have to agree on, is that we both don't want a typical tournament attitude. So in result I rarely play with new people ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518952.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518952.page GMT Re:What's agreed upon before a game? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518962.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518962.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518977.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518977.page GMT Re:What's agreed upon before a game?
I also have multiple armies with very different playstyles, so my opponents like to know what army I'm bringing. However, I don't feel like I always have or should have to tell them. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518994.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9518994.page GMT Re:What's agreed upon before a game? GW models aside from the odd fluffy FW model just to make something look cooler or because the model looks better. Other than that, we don't really agree on much else at that point. We are all pretty bad for drastically changing lists each time and we have had a game where I fielded a full Tau hammerhead with railgun army with 2 Ghostkeels and my opponent brought nothing but conscripts and guardsmen for an imperial guard army despite his love of the leman Russ. was a very odd game as it was killpoints and nobody really won...
other than that, the only other thing that we have that is kind of an unspoken rule is only one superheavy, mainly because most of us only have 1 at most that only see's occasional use.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9519534.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9519534.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9519554.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9519554.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
Just glancing at them on paper they still seem pretty damn strong.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520090.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520090.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
Where I play we tend to randomly allocate opponents because there are always at least 12 people on a gaming night.

If I prearrange a game though I don't really need to say much about what I'm bringing as I'm known as the only pure Ultramarines player in the place and everyone knows I don't play centurions or grav or Primaris. So they know it's either 2nd company Ultras with plenty of power armour or my assault focussed 1st company springing out of Land Raiders.

Guilliman rarely comes out and even then I'll make it more of a thematic army and bring plenty of tacticals, assault marines and devastators (not that it stops people complaining, but ah well). Even then though in prearranged games I tend to plan games with friends so I'll give them a good idea of what I'm thinking and last few times I've actually helped my mate build his list to make it a close game. Although I think I've shot myself in the foot with that one because he beat me both times.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520115.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520115.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
I haven't played with super heavies in 8th yet and I own at least 3 super heavies for various factions, but I never really liked to bring them since the game turned into whoever loses their super heavy first loses the game. (at least in 7th)

Just glancing at them on paper they still seem pretty damn strong.


I've only played vs knights, Kytans and wraithknights, but all seem much more manageable now. D6 damage on most heavy weapons means you only need a couple good damage rolls (which you can CP re-roll) to take it down and degrade it, and on the whole they seem to have gotten a price hike, and their ranged firepower hasn't changed or has gone down a bit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520193.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520193.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
during the pre-game we share lists and decide what each stuff in the table will be, terrain-wise]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520366.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520366.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? ig so if I would tell him I was playing ig hus army would be all heavy bolters and flamers. Ever since it's really set me on edge about even sharing that much information. Since my collection is so much larger now I realize it's not a problem but usually I will only tell my opponent which faction I'm playing if I know what they are playing (either because they tell me or I know they only have one army) and only reveal details if I'm trying out an extremergency list like elysians.

Also there are some armies that just lack significant diversity it's all but impossible to not know what's going to be in the force. Sisters of battle and mechanicus spring to mind.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520415.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520415.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
fithos wrote:
When I first started in the hobby I regularly played against a guy who was natorious for list tailoring against me. He knew I didn't have many tanks for ig so if I would tell him I was playing ig hus army would be all heavy bolters and flamers. ....
Also there are some armies that just lack significant diversity it's all but impossible to not know what's going to be in the force. Sisters of battle and mechanicus spring to mind.


This can be a hard problem to deal around. Like, for example, I have a friend who has always themed his armies identically, despite owning a pretty wide variety of models. So, when I'm going to play him and I think about taking X model of my own that may not be very good, it automatically and unintentionally makes me shy away from it. Vice versa, if I get a new one I want to try that's a pretty hard counter, I feel guilty about bringing it. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520443.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520443.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
Then it's point cost/PL.

Finally, we both discuss if we wan't to bring "extreme" units, like Lords of War.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520741.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520741.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game? PL
Lords of war
Forge world or not. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520748.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520748.page GMT What's agreed upon before a game?
Always points or power levels.

Whether the game will be using optimized or casual lists.

Usually the mission - and the pre-game storyline. This usually involves disclosing forces as well. If the mission we're playing is the Imperial Fists laying siege to an Iron Warriors bunker line, I find it perfectly sensible for the armies to tailor their forces to the opponent and mission. They know my forces and I know theirs, so usually someone will take the initiative and propose a scenario.

I'll usually disclose ahead of time if I'm bringing a super-heavy or multiple flyers.

Before the game, we'll do a run down of our units, their equipment and not anything that's not WYSWYG.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520763.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/734172/9520763.page GMT