<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[2000] - Tau empire

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[2000] - Tau empire - competitive"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [2000] - Tau empire - competitive
BATTALION DETACHMENT
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Pathfinders (10, markerlights, pulsecarbines, 2x railrifle) 124
Sunshark Bomber (markerlight, missile pod, 2x seeker missile, 2x interceptor drone) 167

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
Aun'Va (2x guards) 75
Broadside Battlesuit (heavy railrifle, 2x smartmissile system) 183
Broadside Battlesuit (heavy railrifle, 2x smartmissile system) 183
Broadside Battlesuit (heavy railrifle, 2x smartmissile system) 183

SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT
Storm Surge (cluster rockets, 4x destroyer missile, 2x flamer, pulse driver cannon, 2x smartmissile system) 336

SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT
Storm Surge (cluster rockets, 4x destroyer missile, 2x flamer, pulse driver cannon, 2x smartmissile system) 336

TOTAL 1980

Any ideas what to get with 20 points? This list is to deploy in cover or on a hill to form solid firebase, with Storm surges behind lines to counter enemy deep striking units, sunshark bomber cirlces around enemy forces. Cadre Fireblades provide support to Strike Teams. Not sure what weapons to support turrets...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564637.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564637.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564683.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564683.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive
BATTALION DETACHMENT
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Pathfinders (10, markerlights, pulsecarbines, 2x railrifle) 124
Sunshark Bomber (markerlight, missile pod, 2x seeker missile, 2x interceptor drone) 167

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
Aun'Va (2x guards) 75
Broadside Battlesuit (heavy railrifle, 2x smartmissile system) 183
Broadside Battlesuit (heavy railrifle, 2x smartmissile system) 183

SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT
Storm Surge (cluster rockets, 4x destroyer missile, 2x flamer, pulse driver cannon, 2x smartmissile system) 436

SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT
Storm Surge (cluster rockets, 4x destroyer missile, 2x flamer, pulse driver cannon, 2x smartmissile system) 436

TOTAL 1997]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564895.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564895.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive
I don't think the list is that great. The broadsides have no protection and can be ace'd in a turn. I've seen players dance around storm surges and jus ignore them completely

Also what are you going to do when you have to go grab objectives or try to grab line breaker etc.

The list isn't really that great]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564921.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564921.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive
Drones are big in 8th, you want as many as you can take in your squads and at least 1 or 2 squads of drones.

Like he said, the stormsurges aren't scary at all. Your'e getting 4d6+8 S5 Shots. that's on average 28 shots. 8 Gun drones get 32 S5 shots. For 64 points...

The pulse drive cannon is essentially d3 Railgun shots with 1 less AP. A Railgun Hammerhead is about 180 points I think and also gets 12 S5 shots. For less points you can get more firepower from 2 Hammerheads and a single 8 man Drone squad. All of that's more mobile, and the threat is split up into 3 units so it's harder to wipe. Not to mention the 8 Gun Drones can equal 8 lascannon, Krak Missile and melta shots that aren't wiping Broadsides.

A good rule of thumb in Tau is that if it's bigger than a stealth suit or a devilfish it shouldn't be bringing S5 firepower, we have huge volumes of that dirt cheap.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564975.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9564975.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive
I actually put together a similar list, which I posted a few days ago if you want to check it out here. I'm only running one stormsurge in my list, and focusing much more on literally castle-ing my army to keep my opponent out of assault range, but there's a lot in common with your list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9565523.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9565523.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9565654.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9565654.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive
BATTALION DETACHMENT
Aun'Va (2x guards) 75
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Pathfinders (10, markerlights, pulsecarbines, 2x railrifle) 124
Sunshark Bomber (markerlight, missile pod, 2x seeker missile, 2x interceptor drone) 167
Broadside Battlesuit (heavy railrifle, 2x smartmissile system) 183
Broadside Battlesuit (heavy railrifle, 2x smartmissile system) 183

SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT
Storm Surge (cluster rockets, 4x destroyer missile, 2x flamer, pulse driver cannon, 2x smartmissile system) 436

SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT
Storm Surge (cluster rockets, 4x destroyer missile, 2x flamer, pulse driver cannon, 2x smartmissile system) 436

TOTAL 1997

Well, pathfinders are not the only models I have with markerlights, they are just filling points, and are based on the models I have so far.
Broadsides still have 6 wounds, so the enemy has to concentrate fire upon them.
I would like to include Devilfishes to give strike teams more mobility when chasing objectives.
Drones might be good, altough it's boring to field only drones. I've been playing with tyranids for a while and this sort of a list has a very different approach.
Storm surges are ideal for supporting firepower as they can be deployed behind lines (and/or building/hill) as their model is bigger. When they are deployed behind my own lines, they counter deep striking area, and with flamers, have a little defence fire enemy closing in.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm also considering about dropping one of the storm surges, and field 2 hammerheads (railgun, 2x SMS) and get back Spearhead detachment.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9565657.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9565657.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive D6 damage shots early.

Which brings me to my next point, Stormsurges are great but they pack a lot of S5 and only one big gun. By bringing 2 of them, a full battalion of troops, and SMS Broadsides you have a bucket of anti infantry shots, but very few ways to deal with armor. Without shield-generators or drones the anti armor solutions you have can be reduced quickly by canny opponents.

This list can hold its ground and castle well, but without using some of our stronger deployment options like Manta strike (Commanders, Crisis, Vespids) or Infiltrate (XV25 Stealth, XV95 Ghost) nor fast units besides the Sun Shark it will struggle to disrupt an opponents plans.

I'd drop the second surge, invest the points in some support systems and a unit or two which can wield fusion blasters and manta strike or infiltrate. Then either grab a few measly drones or switch the Broadsides for Hammerheads. In a gun-line type force I'd also consider the Commanders Kauyon ability which can really help make that turn 1 or 2 shooting hit its mark.

That's just my opinion though and I'd love to hear how those Surges do on the table!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9567861.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9567861.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive SMS?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568118.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568118.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568165.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568165.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive imho.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568214.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568214.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive
If you want a more static list you could also bring more broadsides with the points.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568600.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568600.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive
BATTALION DETACHMENT
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Pathfinders (10, markerlights, pulsecarbines, 2x railrifle) 124
Sunshark Bomber (markerlight, missile pod, 2x seeker missile, 2x interceptor drone) 167

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
Aun'Va (2x guards) 75
Broadside Battlesuit (heavy railrifle, 2x smartmissile system, missiledrone) 203
Broadside Battlesuit (heavy railrifle, 2x smartmissile system, missiledrone) 203
Hammerhead Gunship (railgun, 2x smartmissile system) 195
Hammerhead Gunship (railgun, 2x smartmissile system) 195

SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT
Storm Surge (cluster rockets, 4x destroyer missile, 2x flamer, pulse driver cannon, 2x smartmissile system) 436

Now, the broadsides have drones with them. Any suggestion which weapon for turrets; missile pod or SMS?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568675.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive .

Drones are the best thing in the Tau codex. I'd say a squad of 6 or 8 shield drones for the two Broadsides and 6 for the Storm Surge. With a single drone per broadside someone's just going to shoot the lone drone with bolters or something and then lascannon up the broadside.

Or a stormraven is going to fly over and dump 20 shots and missiles/melta into the storm surge and do like 12+ wounds to it turn 1. The Storm Surge is 3+ with no invul save, it's no harder to kill than 2 rhinos. Without a lot of drones covering it it's probably going to die turn 1 or 2.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568750.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9568750.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9569472.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9569472.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive
A stormsurge is T7, W20, and Sv 3+. No invul save. It's no harder to kill than 2 rhinos, which aren't hard to kill.

I actually was wrong about the storm surge and drones, they aren't battlesuits and can't be protected by drones, which is terrible.

My 1k point marine list has 6 lascannons and that's not even a lot. Most shooty armies can dish out just as much, or more, firepower than Tau. I bet you 2 grav cannon dev squads in a drop pod with a captain and lietenant are going to wipe a stormsurge.

You may also run into people ignoring the stormsurge because it doesn't put out that much fire power. Without markerlights the destroyer missiles don't do much, so the markers will be shot first. The Cluster Rockets are easily ignored compared to other stuff in Tau. The only thing that's dangerous on it is the Pulse Driver Cannon, which is basically d3 railgun shots which is decent, but not great. In fact, the Pulse Driver is worse than d3 las cannons because the AP isn't as good.

You don't have to spam drones and commanders like the super competitive people, but Tau are all about using drones to protect their high firepower models. That's what makes Tau good this edition. Tau aren't going to win a shootout on pure firepower alone. Lots of armies will dish out just as much firepower. Tau are just hard to kill the suits due to drones, and have cheap 30" range S5 infantry. Broadsides are great, but Broadsides with only a single drone getting shot by 5 melta guns rerolling 1's to hit and wound isn't.

Another example of "what other army but Tau has such firepower": IG. You can spam gigantic numbers of melta and plasma on Scions dirt cheap. 1 Tempestor Prime, 1 Scions squad, 1 Scion command squad is 8 melta guns for like 200 points, all deep striking, all rerolling 1's to hit. Even less for plasma guns which will still dish out up to 4 wounds per gun, wounding you on 3's and giving you only a 6+ save. I did 18 wounds to an Ork Trukk last night with 1 Commander shooting once. Consider that the Trukk is no more difficult to wound than a Stormsurge when you have a good AP weapon.

Edit: for the last list you posted, I would drop the SMS on the hammerheads and use the points to take a drone squad for the broadsides. Plus the drones from the hammerheads can disembark and cover the broadsides too. Looking at that list, the Broadsides are probably target priority 1, followed by hammerheads, followed by storm surge. If you put some drones on the broadsides they'll prolly go for the hammerheads first because they're easier to kill than Broadsides with drones.

As for SMS vs Missile on the Turrets, I'd say Missile Pod all the way since they're the same price. SMS isn't bad, but Tau bring a ton of S5 firepower and when you can opt to bring a Missile pod for the same price I'd grab the stronger gun.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9570633.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9570633.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so building a list with these sets;

BATTALION DETACHMENT
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Cadre Fireblade (markerlight, pulserifle, photon grenades) 42
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103
Strike Team (10, pulserifles, Shas'Ui/markerlight, support turret) 103

-These will form a solid firebase for the army and can hold homefield objectives, with turrets, I might be going for missile pods for antitank power. Cadre fireblades provide buffs for shooting against anything that comes close + the markerlights from cadre fireblades and strike teams are essential.

Pathfinders (10, markerlights, pulsecarbines, 2x railrifle) 124
Sunshark Bomber (markerlight, missile pod, 2x seeker missile, 2x interceptor drone) 167
Hammerhead Gunship (railgun, 2x smartmissile system) 195
Hammerhead Gunship (railgun, 2x smartmissile system) 195

-These are for the firesupport, Pathfinders for more markerlights (quite essential), hammerheads for antitank support, and sunshark bomber for anti-infantry.

Commander Farsight 151
Crisis Bodyguards (6, 6x fusion blaster, 3x plasmarifles, 3xflamer, 6x shield drone, 6x missilepod) 666

-These are for alpha strike, hunting down knights and tanks, with fusion blasters and missile pods for antitank, plasma rifles against elite infantry and light vehicles, flamers for overwatch. Shield drones for protection. They can assault small units that does not tie the unit for too long and challenge vehicles. This is something that was not on the list, but I could give it a try.

- total points cost for these are 1891, any suggestions what to add for the list? farsight bomb is quite expensive, but they can move quickly in opponent's deployment zone grabbing objectives and challenge vehicles and elite infantry.
- somethings that could perform well; piranhas (fast, agile antitank with fusionblasters), commanders in coldsuite (very fast, moving 40" and grabbing objectives, providing firesupport), broadsides (more firesupport, quite expensive), Aun'Va (buffing whole army, can hold objectives at homefield behind terrain)
- Something intresting is about Aun'va and Gunrig-combo, surely they are hitting 5+ with supremacy railgun, but could hold objectives and with Gunrig-model's high profile, they can fire over scenery and troops.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9571463.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9571463.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive HYMP Broadside. A lot of armies will deep strike and charge you turn 1 and you gotta watch out for that. A wall of fire warriors is an appealing target for a turn 1 charge. An EWO unit with a lot of shots can discourage that somewhat.

I think you might be overestimating Tau firepower. They're a good shooting army, but having played them for like 6 years they don't necessarily have superior firepower over other shooting armies. They did in 7th, but I don't think they do now. In 8th they have durability on their good firepower units through drones and easily deep striked special weapons. I can guarantee you any good shooting list at 2k points could kill a stormsurge turn 1 pretty easily, the caveat is a good list. I played 1K game vs ad mech and he was doing about 15 wounds to my razorbacks(same toughness and save as a storm surge) a turn. At 2k he could probably have done 30 or 40 wounds to tanks a turn. I don't think Tau can out shoot ad mech. Hell Tau could have problems out shooting orks. When 60 shots teleport to 9" away from you every turn stuff just dies.

I feel like if you're gonna take a storm surge you really need to pay for the invul save system or it's just going to melt.

I want to like Piranhas but they're so expensive for a single fusion blaster.

I honestly wouldn't take fusions on a Crisis Bodyguard or regular Suit. BS 4+ really hurts on a single shot weapon. I'd replace them with cyclic ions or something and try to fit in a quad fusion commander, maybe dropping a suit if necessary. You don't have to do the commander spam meta, but I think the quad fusion commander is the only good tank hunter Tau have this edition. I haven't killed anything with hammerheads yet, but last game my quad fusion commander blew 3 vehicles and survived the game.

Check out Ion weapons in 8th too, they're really good. They're the most versatile thing in Tau. A Suit with 2 Cyclic Ions and an ATS is 86 pts before drones and vs infantry you've got 6 S7 AP -2 shots; vs tanks and multi-wound models you have 2d3 S8 AP-2 D2 shots. Plasmas and flamers are also good cause they're cheap and specialized.

Flamer crisis suits are very powerful on paper but I haven't run them yet. Run a squad with 3x flamers each except for 1 suit. That suit has a Drone controller. Give them 6 gun drones and team them up with a gun drone squad and they can blast infantry. They can advance and take no penalty with the flamers and the drones hit on 5's still when they advance.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9571987.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9571987.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive b- tau has unique ability with markerlights, definately one of the greatest shooting army, btw youre talking about razorbacks in tau list?
c- storm surge with shield drones could be optimal, but expensive
d- piranhas could grab objectives and are very versatile, arming with fusion blaster is expensive indeed, but provide more antitank power
e- I prefer railgun systems because their strenght is more dedicated on taking out heavy armour
f- I'd prefer either markerdrones or shield drones, gundrones are not so necessary]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572122.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572122.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive AP -2 shots.

b- Markers are good, SM Captains are better. Getting the reroll 1's to hit with markers helps but it's still nowhere near as good as marines get rerolls. Plus marines reroll 1's to wound with lts. Nah, I play SM and Tau, different lists/games.

c- We were both mistaken, unfortunately a Storm Surge isn't a battlesuit. It's a vehicle, so no drone protection. I think that's a huge mark against it. If it could dodge big shots onto drones it wouldn't be too bad for a static gunline.

d- I really want to like piranha but to me they're kind of expensive. Reserving final judgement until I actually try mine this edition.

e- It's personal preference, I'm not a big fan of relying on a single die roll on a BS 4+ model. I think Rail Rifle Broadsides aren't too bad on paper cause you get 2 shots.

f- For a gunline possibly not cause you have a lot of fire warriors. I run mobile lists with either few or no fire warriors, or not many so I bring gun drones with crisis sutis. 4 shots each at 8 pts is nasty. you can put out 40 shots for less than 100 pts. Keep in mind in a gun line you'll have easier Fireblade support and those gun drones get 6 shots at 9" range. For 8 pts. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572166.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572166.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive

Spreelock wrote:

b- tau has unique ability with markerlights, definately one of the greatest shooting army, btw youre talking about razorbacks in tau list?

No, Tau are really not one of the greatest shooting armies anymore. Most of our weapons are low range. Strength 5 is great and all, but most
of that strength 5 shooting has no AP value. Rerolling 1's to hit only helps so much when large portions of our army index have poor BS skill.
And Railguns are far too variable to rely on for our anti-tank needs.

And again - The Stormsurge is going to die in the 1st or 2nd turn pretty freakin' often. Even if you pay the points for a shield generator, which you absolutely
should if you're insistent on running one.

And your insistence on not running gun drones is staggering. Between the massed dakka and the ablative wounds that drones provide, it's like you're
ignoring one of the best parts of the index. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572308.page GMT Re:[2000] - Tau empire - competitive

BigPapaSeels wrote:

Spreelock wrote:

b- tau has unique ability with markerlights, definately one of the greatest shooting army, btw youre talking about razorbacks in tau list?

Pretty much sums up Tau. They don't bring more fire power than other shooty armies but the drone support makes our strong firepower much harder to kill.

Hell, our plasma rifle is significantly weaker than IG's, costs more points, and comes on a model with lower BS than IG Vets or Scions.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572334.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572334.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572346.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572346.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive AP it might be pretty nasty.

The only concern I have for it is that it moves so much faster than drones could keep up with so he might die really easily if he needs to go solo.

To read other people's results with them he's a very good complementary unit to quad fusion commanders and other threats from your regular army. He's not super deadly so the enemy will prolly shoot other things first, allowing the cold star to move.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572356.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572356.page GMT [2000] - Tau empire - competitive AP-1 shots, plus the 2 Strength 7 AP-2 shots with ATS, and that kind of mobility? Seems like it could be an excellent annoyance.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572541.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/737030/9572541.page GMT