<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "8th Edition Combat Patrol"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "8th Edition Combat Patrol"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 8th Edition Combat Patrol
Combat Patrol
25-30 PP or 400-500 points.
Players get 1 Scout Detachment and up to 3 Scout Support Detachment. All units used must belong to one detachment.

Scout Detachment
0-1 HQ
0-2 Elites
1-4 Troops
0-2 Fast Attack
0-1 Heavy Support

Command Benefits: None

Scout Support Detachment
0-1 Elites OR Troops OR Fast Attack OR Heavy Support

Command Benefits: -1 Command Point

Warlord Traits
Any model that is a Warlord may use the following traits, even if they are not a Character. Roll a D3 to generate traits or both players may choose traits.

D1 Quick Thinker
You may add +2 to the roll to see who gets the first turn.

D2 Hunch
After all players are done deploying units, you may re-deploy one unit of your choice to any other legal place. If both players have this trait roll off to see who uses this trait first. Who ever wins may choose to redeploy first or second.

D3 Local expert
You may add +2 to the roll to see who gets to choose for deployment zone.

Missions
All missions are played on a 4' x 4' table.
All missions last for 5 battle rounds.
Who ever has the most VP at the end of round 5 wins the game.

Mission 1: Recon
Both armies are scouting an area until both unexpectedly run into each other. You must drive off the enemy while capturing as much ground as possible.

Deployment
Divide the table into four 2' x 2' quarters. Both players roll off. The winner chooses a table quarter for deployment and their opponent gets the quarter diagonally chosen for deployment.
Players then alternate deploying units, starting with the player that did not choose their table quarter. All units must be set up within 12" from any table edge in that player's table quarter.

First Turn
Players roll off to see who gets the first turn.

Victory Conditions
Players get victory points for the following conditions.

1VP if the enemy Warlord was slain.
1VP for each enemy unit slain.
1 VP for each table quarter a player's unit occupies. Units in multiple table quarters may only score once for one table quarter.

Mission 2: Probe
Both armies are probing the enemy's territory for weaknesses and strong points in preparation for a major offensive.

Deployment
Both players roll off. The winner chooses a table half for deployment, the loser gets the opposite half. Players then alternate deploying units, starting with the player that did not choose their table quarter. All units must be set up 12" within that player's table edge in that player's table half.

First Turn
Players roll off to see who gets the first turn.

Victory Conditions
Players get victory points for the following conditions.

1VP if the enemy Warlord is slain.
1VP for each enemy unit slain.
1VP for each unit that occupies the opponent's table half.

Mission 3: Capture and Hold
Both armies are attempting to capture a hill, bunker, bridge or similar object of strategic importance.

Deployment
Place an objective marker or piece of terrain in the center of the battlefield. Both players roll off. The winner chooses a table half for deployment, the loser gets the opposite half. Players then alternate deploying units, starting with the player that did not choose their table quarter. All units must be set up 12" within that player's table edge in that player's table half.

First Turn
Players roll off to see who gets the first turn.

Victory Conditions
Players get victory points for the following conditions.

1VP if the enemy Warlord is slain.
1VP for each enemy unit slain.
1VP for each unit within 6" of the objective.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9588665.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9588665.page GMT Re:8th Edition Combat Patrol 40k and I think what you have here could very well work. Have you had a chance to try this out?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9722638.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9722638.page GMT 8th Edition Combat Patrol
Also, you don't seem to have any restrictions on "big stuff," which might be entirely intentional. Personally, I ended up banning anything toughness 6 or higher because I was worried that anything that takes dedicated anti tank power to kill in a hurry would basically invalidate any anti-infantry options for fear of being left without an answer to such targets. Knowing your opponent could bring a razorback means you'll usually opt for the lascannon instead of the heavy bolter because the latter is still useful against most things while the former is going to struggle against those hard-to-kill targets.

Actually, here's what my rough draft looks like...

COMBAT PATROL RULES
• Games are played at 400 points.
• All lists are built with a single combat patrol detachment. No other detachments may be used.
• No model may have a base Toughness of 6 or higher.
• Games are played on a 4”X4” space.
• Players may use the stratagems found on page X of the main rulebook as well as any of the combat patrol stratagems listed below.
• Warlord traits are not used in games of Combat Patrol, and no models are designated as warlords.
• Models may not arrive via “deepstrike” style rules. You know the ones I mean. Yes, that includes infiltration moves. Units that can normally arrive via deepstrike may instead opt to move and advance at the end of deployment immediately before the first player turn starts and before the Invade stratagem is used (see below). Models that opt to use this rule may not also benefit from the Invade stratagem.
* Missions would probably be similar to the 7th edition Combat Patrol missions; basically hybridized versions of the Eternal War missions.

COMBAT PATROL DETACHMENT
• 1-2 troops
• 0-1 HQ
• 0-1 Elites
• 0-1Fast Attack
• 0-1 Heavy Support
• 0-1 Dedicated transports.
• No fortifications.
• No Flyers.
• No Lords of War

Command Points: Players receive 1 command point for each unit included in their army (plus the 3 points awarded for being battle forged). Note that units that split into multiple (such as by combat squadding), units that do not take up detachment slots (such as models with the court of the archon rule taken alongside an archon), and units that are purchased with reinforcement points (such as summoned units) do not grant additional command points.

COMBAT PATROL STRATAGEMS
A player may utilize any of the following stratagems in a game of combat patrol.

Lone Operatives (1CP)
You may use this stratagem in the deployment phase when you deploy a unit. Remove one model from that unit and deploy it as its own unit. It gains the character rule and is treated as its own unit for the duration of the game and offers victory points when slain just like any other unit. Deploy the model and its original unit at the same time, and treat them as a single drop. Note that this may reduce a unit below its normal starting size.

Invade (2CP)
Use this stratagem at the end of deployment but before the first player turn begins. You may immediately move (and advance) a unit of your choice. This stratagem may be used multiple times, but a given unit may not be affected by it more than once. If both players wish to use this stratagem, roll off to see which player must use this stratagem first, then take turns using this stratagem until neither player wishes to use it again. Note that once a player states they wish to use this stratagem, they must do so; you can’t change your mind after losing the roll off!

Startled (3CP)
You may use this stratagem at the start of the enemy shooting phase in the first game round. Until the end of the phase, all enemy units take a -1 penalty on to-hit rolls when targeting a unit more than 12” away.

Skirmish(1CP)
You may use this stratagem when one of your units falls back. The unit may shoot normally this turn, albeit with a -1 penalty to the to-hit roll.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9723419.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9723419.page GMT 8th Edition Combat Patrol
It meant that things like Rhinos, Chimeras and Carnifexes are viable, but not things like Hive Tyrants, Land Raiders and Leman Russes.

I also allowed units to use their DS abilities, but would limit the ones gained through stratagems. Reason being, I wouldn't want units that pay for their DS skills to be penalized. Instead, the larger amount of terrain should act well as a countermeasure for this.

Warlords seem okay, so long as they can only pick from a pre-set list, allowing for future-proofing. Relics too need to be banned, as do Unique Characters. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9724188.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9724188.page GMT 8th Edition Combat Patrol
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/745356.page]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9724257.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9724257.page GMT 8th Edition Combat Patrol

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Wyldhunt, I've done a Combat Patrol 8th Ed version too, also in Proposed Rules right here. Instead of having a Toughness cap, I put a Wounds cap in instead. That way, light vehicles and monsters could still be taken, as well as certain beefy Characters, but nothing could have over 6 Wounds, unless it was a Vehicle or Monster, and then it could have up to 10.

It meant that things like Rhinos, Chimeras and Carnifexes are viable, but not things like Hive Tyrants, Land Raiders and Leman Russes.

I also allowed units to use their DS abilities, but would limit the ones gained through stratagems. Reason being, I wouldn't want units that pay for their DS skills to be penalized. Instead, the larger amount of terrain should act well as a countermeasure for this.

Warlords seem okay, so long as they can only pick from a pre-set list, allowing for future-proofing. Relics too need to be banned, as do Unique Characters.

I like your setup (thanks, Manchu!), although I think we have slightly different design goals with our versions.

While part of me very much likes the idea of including carnifexes, rhinos, dreads, etc. in combat patrol, I fear that their inclusion might result in some of the less-than-ideal situations I found with Combat Patrol in 7th edition. Specifically, knowing that my opponent might bring something relatively killy and hard to bring down strongly incentivizes me to take a certain amount of dedicated anti-tank weaponry thus invalidating certain other options. So take a dreadnaught as an example. If I'm not mistaken, your setup would allow it to be included, in a game of Combat Patrol. The offensive output of a dread isn't all that bad; its shootiest shooting hits hard but probably won't wipe full squads out in hurry. Its melee is solid, but it has to reach you to use it. The issue is that in missions where the dreadnaught can be brought to bare, lists that didn't invest in a decent amount of anti-tank won't realistically be able to take out the dread. Getting a wound to stick to it with bolters, for instance, means making it take 3 saves which means wounding it 3 times which means hitting it 9 times which, assuming we're talking marines, means throwing about 14 shots at it. So you're looking at throwing about 112 dice at it if math isn't off. Obviously that's a really inefficient way to deal with a dreadnaught; you'll just take a more meltas and lascannons in case a dread shows up, right? Except how much anti-tank do you take? One melta probably won't be enough, so are we talking two tactical squads with meltas instead of plasma or flamers? A full dev squad loaded out with missiles or lascannons?

None of which is inherently problematic except that I personally like the way Combat Patrol potentially encourages infantry-on-infantry conflicts and the use of non-standard weapon options. In Combat Patrol without dreads, my Howling Banshees finally look like a pretty okay option. But if I also have to worry about Dreads, they're suddenly finding themselves swapped out for Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons. Which to me is a bit of a shame, if only because you're replacing potentially novel choices with microcosms of standard games.

TLDR; I feel like anti tank options are pretty decent choices even when you're only facing "little stuff" while many anti-infantry options are bad choices when you might face big stuff. Therefore, I feel that the inclusion of "big stuff" reduces novel choices in a variant that exists to support faster play and novelty. But really, that's just a matter of preference.

Regarding deepstrike, I have the same concern. After doing some playtesting today, I've decided that allowing deepstrikers to move+advance in lieu of deepstriking is just too good in a game played with limited units on a small board. However, I'm worried that simply allowing units to popup and start shooting/stabbing opens up too devastating of an alpha strike. Warp spiders, for instance, hit pretty hard in a game of combat patrol. If I can deepstrike them in per normal deepstrike rules, then I can pretty reliably wipe out whatever normal infantry squad I've pointed them at. Which isn't a ton of fun for my opponent.

"Hey, here's my squad that you don't get to shoot at until after its had a chance to show up right next to you and remove one of your four or five total units from the game."

So it stinks for scouts or striking scorpions who pay for it and don't have any extra mobility to show for it (moving fast is more impressive/important on a 4x4 play area), but certain other units seem like they could make the game too one-sided with a good deepstrike. So I'm not sure what to do about that just yet.

Regarding save limitations, I've never really seen the point in limiting them in games like this, especially if you're allowing them to be improved through buffs. If a marine getting a 2+ save by standing in cover isn't a problem, then surely a terminator who has twice the durability for more than double the cost isn't a problem, right? I'm much more worried about someone buffing a Crusader blob's save with a psyker than I am of someone fielding a Phoenix Lord.

I also don't share the aversion many have to special characters. Sure, Guilliman and Celestine would break a game of Combat Patrol, but is Shadow Sun really that big a deal? Drazhar? Arjac? That said, I'm all for ban lists to deal with those particular units that do happen to break a game of Combat Patrol. But if someone wants to field Fuegan and his traveling band of Fire Dragon disciplies, well... that just sounds downright fun and fluffy!

But again, I like the direction you're going. I think we might just have slightly different objectives with our design choices. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9726110.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/738603/9726110.page GMT