Timeshadow wrote:
So can I use the tyranid stratigum to move after I deep strike?

Timeshadow wrote:
Then why is there an end of movement phase ... So people can react with stratigums or abilitys like this allowing you to extend the movement phase... The end of a phase is still in that phase.

 Lance845 wrote:
If multiple abilities trigger at the end of the movement phase wouldnt sequencing kick in and the player whos turn it is would determine order of operations? If a strat is used at the end of the movement phase why couldnt it be used on a unit that also arrived?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
So can I use the tyranid stratigum to move after I deep strike?

No, you don't have time to. Deep Strike happens at the end of the phase. There is literally no time between deployment and the phase ending for you to declare the use of the stratagem on the arrived unit.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
If multiple abilities trigger at the end of the movement phase wouldnt sequencing kick in and the player whos turn it is would determine order of operations? If a strat is used at the end of the movement phase why couldnt it be used on a unit that also arrived?

Because sequencing doesn't change the timing of when things happen, it only changes the order they are resolved.

 Lance845 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
If multiple abilities trigger at the end of the movement phase wouldnt sequencing kick in and the player whos turn it is would determine order of operations? If a strat is used at the end of the movement phase why couldnt it be used on a unit that also arrived?

Because sequencing doesn't change the timing of when things happen, it only changes the order they are resolved.

Yeahbut the end of the movement phase is a singular point in time when all of these things are taking place. Its not like the strat is used at the beginning of the phase and deployment at the end. They both happen at the end.

 Lance845 wrote:
Actually allow me to make a correction. MO is used "after moving a tyranids unit from your army".

"Units that arrive as reinforcements count as having moved in their Movement phase for all rules purposes"

Fulfilling the requirement of the stratagem as they arrive and meeting the trigger condition.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So basically RAW we can do it if we pop it the instant they deep strike in.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
They obviously aren't placed instantly at the same time but one by one.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So basically RAW we can do it if we pop it the instant they deep strike in.

No, RaW you don't even have the time to pop it, regardless of trigger requirements.

Reinforcements come at the end of the phase. If there is time to use a stratagem AFTER they arrive, then they didn't arrive at the end of the phase, by definition.

Thus, proof by contradiction.

JakeSiren wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So basically RAW we can do it if we pop it the instant they deep strike in.

No, RaW you don't even have the time to pop it, regardless of trigger requirements.

Reinforcements come at the end of the phase. If there is time to use a stratagem AFTER they arrive, then they didn't arrive at the end of the phase, by definition.

Thus, proof by contradiction.

Then can you explain how AdMech would use their "Infoslave Skull" stratagem? "Use this Stratagem immediately after your opponent sets up
a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements...". As you claim, you don't even have the time to pop it, regardless of trigger requirements.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So basically RAW we can do it if we pop it the instant they deep strike in.

No, RaW you don't even have the time to pop it, regardless of trigger requirements.

Reinforcements come at the end of the phase. If there is time to use a stratagem AFTER they arrive, then they didn't arrive at the end of the phase, by definition.

Thus, proof by contradiction.

Then can you explain how AdMech would use their "Infoslave Skull" stratagem? "Use this Stratagem immediately after your opponent sets up
a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements...". As you claim, you don't even have the time to pop it, regardless of trigger requirements.

You do realise reinforcements can arrive at other times, right? You might as well say "Why does the game have rules for shooting heavy weapons if you can't do so after you advance!?!?!??"

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Well if you claim that you can magically somehow do something after the end of the phase but still in that phase, I would hold you to the long list of RaW idiocy in my signature.

It makes no sense to be able to do something after the end of a phase in that phase.

 Yarium wrote:
Just going to throw some more gas on this fire...

Counting as having moved, and moving, are two different things. The unit is actually deployed, not moved. Metabolic Overdrive is used after the unit is done moving, but the unit never moved, it only deployed. Still, if ever the game wants to know if it has or has not moved, the rules specifically say "yes".

 Yarium wrote:
Just going to throw some more gas on this fire...

Counting as having moved, and moving, are two different things. The unit is actually deployed, not moved. Metabolic Overdrive is used after the unit is done moving, but the unit never moved, it only deployed. Still, if ever the game wants to know if it has or has not moved, the rules specifically say "yes".

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Ok well my local TO's are going with it not being allowed.

They are voting for the stratagem is used DURING the phase and wont be allowed at the END OF THE PHASE.

hachieman2000 wrote:
I find it interesting that no one has brought up the reinforcement rule in context.

Units that are set
up in this manner cannot
move or Advance further
during the turn they arrive
– their entire Movement
phase is used in deploying
to the battlefield –but they
can otherwise act normally
(shoot, charge, etc.) for the
rest of their turn.

If their entire movement phase is used just to deploy them, doesn't seem like there is much room for anything else.

 Lance845 wrote:

hachieman2000 wrote:
I find it interesting that no one has brought up the reinforcement rule in context.

Units that are set
up in this manner cannot
move or Advance further
during the turn they arrive
– their entire Movement
phase is used in deploying
to the battlefield –but they
can otherwise act normally
(shoot, charge, etc.) for the
rest of their turn.

If their entire movement phase is used just to deploy them, doesn't seem like there is much room for anything else.

And if a unit advanced this turn you cannot select that unit to shoot during the shooting phase. Which means assault weapons don't work.

And if a unit is within 1" of an enemy unit during the shooting phase you cannot select that unit to shoot. Which means pistols don't work.

If another rule gives you express permission to break those restrictions then you get to break them. The stratagem lets you do it. The same way the Warp Time psychic power lets you do it.

Kdash wrote:
So, the way I interpret this is that you won’t be able to use this on a unit that deep strikes, nor, would there really be any point in doing so.

The way I read standard reinforcements, is that they are triggered by the movement phase ending, and so, happen in the “grey area” between the movement phase and the psychic phase. As it is triggered by the “end” of the phase, you wouldn’t then be able to use a stratagem that is required to be used “during” said phase, due to the phase having ended.

Of course, this is open to debate of whether or not the “end” of a phase is “during” a phase, or after.

But, regardless, based off the FAQ, you would not be able to charge with any units regardless of any power or ability after using the MO stratagem on a deep-striking unit. (FAQ states using Onslaught does not over-ride the “cannot charge” part, so it is easily determined that the Hive Commander ability won’t work either, nor the Genestealer ability, even if they then advanced as part of the MO move.)
So, the only reason why you’d use this on a deep-striking unit, is to run them into gaps in the opponents line and hope they then don’t just get shot off the table in the next turn.

TLDR – I’m in the camp that it cannot be used on a deep-striking unit due to “phase” interpretation.