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		<title><![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Detachment based alternating turns proposal"]]></title>
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				<title>Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ This idea was inspired by my group's 2000 pt 2v2 games.  The general limits were each player brings ~1000 points, single detachment. <br /> <br /> Each turns are composed into first and second halves where the two teams alternating activating the halves of the armies at a time. The result was a "soft" revision to the existing <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(660);'>IGOUGO</span>, where the alternate turns are dictated by your detachment composition.<br /> <br /> In a 1v1 setting, the deployments would occur at 'per detachment' level, with the side that deployed all of his detachments first gains +1 to roll off for who decides the turn orders.<br /> <br /> The system begins to bring in a trade off where larger single detachment allows you to make bigger moves you make at the cost of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(707);'>CP</span> accrual. Alternatively, taking smaller detachments allow you to make smaller moves and in turn you bring in more <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(707);'>CPs</span> you can spend. In order to facilitate this, there would be a new general strategem where it allows you to spend 1CP to move a unit out of turn. <br /> <br /> In a scenario where its one detachment vs 3 detachment armies and the player with only 1 detachment goes first - although the resulting game is the existing <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(660);'>IGOUGO</span>, it hampers the first player (with only 1 detachments) from abusing <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(707);'>CP</span>'s in his/ers alpha strike. <br /> <br /> In a most optinal setting would be where the players bring armies that are composed of 1 main detachment and 2 auxillary detachments, and a single exisitng turn becomes three turns within.<br /> <br /> So while not a complete alternating activation, we felt more 'tactical decisions' being made.  I am looking to draft a full ruleset depending on the responses and C&C for further playtesting.<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Dec 2017 23:46:55]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ skchsan]]></author>
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				<title>Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Consider how this can be min maxed with supreme command detachments or min requirement detachments to create mini death stars.<br /> <br /> Just consider it.<br /> <br /> Its a bad idea.<br /> <br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 26 Dec 2017 00:56:36]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Lance845]]></author>
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				<title>Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ It has the same issue all alternating action systems have, it benefits <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(308);'>MSU</span> spam and not much else.<br /> <br /> I have yet to come across an alternating system that fixes that issue without some form of resource tracking that bogs the game down horrifically.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 26 Dec 2017 01:45:21]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ BaconCatBug]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ We play by standard ITC rules with max 3 detachments.<br /> <br /> The proposed system abides by all the existing <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(660);'>IGOUGO</span> rulesets except that your turns are divided by your detachment compositions. <br /> <br /> I wasnt aware of any benefits to <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(308);'>MSU</span> spams in this edition. Can you elaborate?<br /> <br /> As for the resource tracking, the only book keeping required in this system ( on top of exisitng system's) is keeping track of which unit belongs to which detachments. <br /> <br /> I dont see how this essentially promotes minmax supreme command detachments any more than it does now? Care to elaborate on this as well?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 26 Dec 2017 03:02:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ skchsan]]></author>
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				<title>Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Considering you didn't mention a detachment limit in your <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(280);'>OP</span> means you're not giving us the correct information to give you feedback.<br /> <br /> The person with 1 detachment goes first? How does that fix any of the alpha strike problems? I bring a Brigade of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(69);'>IG</span> with over 9000 basilisks, 12 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(707);'>CP</span> and Catachan doctrines means I wipe your army out first turn, just like it is right now except I always go first.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:55:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ BaconCatBug]]></author>
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				<title>Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ YOU play with a max 3 detachments. But if i can take as many detachments as i want i can build those detachments out of incredibly brtual... Say... Tyrant spam. (Not the best example). So one detachment with 5 tyrants all sporting 2 sets of 2 deathspitters for a total of 120 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>bs</span> 3+ heavy bolter shots in a single detachment. + 10 psychic powers/(5 smites + whatever).<br /> <br /> Again, death star activation. <br /> <br /> The advanatge of alternating activation is to limit the impact of a single player before the next player gets to act. But your not really limiting it. Your just making a new criteria for optimization. Not its not about how these smaller units fit into my whole army but instead how i can alpha/beta strike with each activation.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Dec 2017 02:08:15]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Lance845]]></author>
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				<title>Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ To my mind the issue with things like this is that they add extra rules to the game without making it much more interesting. The turn structure of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span> (run through the checklist of "have I done [thing] with [unit]" for every unit in the army two to four times a turn) is annoying enough without splitting the checklist up further, and as other people have pointed out further up the page the problems actually solved by alternating activations are kind of negligible.<br /> <br /> Games that do alternating activations tend to have simple single-step unit activations as opposed to the "do thing, wait for other units to do that thing, then do another thing" tangle that is the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span> turn. I'd suggest starting the alternating activation discussion by looking at how the phases that make up the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span> turn could be compressed rather than slapping an extra batch of rules on top of an already somewhat unwieldy system and hoping for the best.<br /> <br /> As an example, the order system from Bolt Action:<br /> <br /> When giving a unit an order choose from the following six:<br /> Fire: Stand still, fire at no penalty.<br /> Advance: Normal move, fire at a -1 to hit.<br /> Run: Double move, fight a round of combat if you come into contact with another unit during this move.<br /> Rally: Remove pin markers<br /> Down: Hunker down to avoid incoming fire, remove fewer pin markers<br /> Ambush: Hold position, fire at a -1 to hit if an enemy enters your line of fire later in the turn.<br /> <br /> Because each unit is doing exactly one thing each turn rather than doing somewhere between one and four depending on the circumstances the whole thing is a lot easier to keep track of, especially if you're expected to pass priority a lot during a turn.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Dec 2017 06:42:49]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ AnomanderRake]]></author>
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				<title>Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/c9befceba99b8513348859bc6e9f2f49.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/747279/9759342.page"><b>AnomanderRake wrote:</b></a><br/>To my mind the issue with things like this is that they add extra rules to the game without making it much more interesting. The turn structure of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span> (run through the checklist of "have I done [thing] with [unit]" for every unit in the army two to four times a turn) is annoying enough without splitting the checklist up further, and as other people have pointed out further up the page the problems actually solved by alternating activations are kind of negligible.<br /> <br /> Games that do alternating activations tend to have simple single-step unit activations as opposed to the "do thing, wait for other units to do that thing, then do another thing" tangle that is the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span> turn. I'd suggest starting the alternating activation discussion by looking at how the phases that make up the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span> turn could be compressed rather than slapping an extra batch of rules on top of an already somewhat unwieldy system and hoping for the best.<br /> <br /> As an example, the order system from Bolt Action:<br /> <br /> When giving a unit an order choose from the following six:<br /> Fire: Stand still, fire at no penalty.<br /> Advance: Normal move, fire at a -1 to hit.<br /> Run: Double move, fight a round of combat if you come into contact with another unit during this move.<br /> Rally: Remove pin markers<br /> Down: Hunker down to avoid incoming fire, remove fewer pin markers<br /> Ambush: Hold position, fire at a -1 to hit if an enemy enters your line of fire later in the turn.<br /> <br /> Because each unit is doing exactly one thing each turn rather than doing somewhere between one and four depending on the circumstances the whole thing is a lot easier to keep track of, especially if you're expected to pass priority a lot during a turn.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The Beyond the Gates of Antares (Sci fi bolt action) order are...<br /> <br /> Fire: stand still and shoot at +1 (game runs on a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(343);'>d12</span> system)<br /> Advance: Normal move and fire normally<br /> Run: double move<br /> Rally: remove pins<br /> Down: -1 to hit unit<br /> Ambush: can use the ambush reaction<br /> <br /> There is a thread with a really good blending of BtGoA and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span>. The system works real well. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Dec 2017 07:51:33]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Lance845]]></author>
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				<title>Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/dcd32c8b52069016bcd42e33678f1cf0.png" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/747279/9758102.page"><b>BaconCatBug wrote:</b></a><br/>It has the same issue all alternating action systems have, it benefits <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(308);'>MSU</span> spam and not much else.<br /> <br /> I have yet to come across an alternating system that fixes that issue without some form of resource tracking that bogs the game down horrifically.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I play Battletech which I feel has a great alternating system. It gets around the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(308);'>MSU</span> problem by dividing up the larger force and having double movements on the larger force pushed towards the back.<br /> <br /> For example, a 4v6 would go like this with the 4 side being listed as Red and the 6 side being listed as Blue. This can be inversed on the exact level depending on who gets initiative per turn.<br /> <br /> Red: Blue<br /> Red: Blue<br /> Red: Blue Blue<br /> Red: Blue Blue<br /> <br /> The second thing they do is damage and kills for the turn are calculated at the end of the entire turn.  This ends up helping out a lot as focus firing down a unit on your turn to force the enemy to have less shots before they can fire back doesn't work.<br /> <br /> The main issue would be Battletech is usually played on a lot smaller scale of unit numbers, but they also don't move in squads. So *shrug*]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Dec 2017 10:14:32]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hatachi]]></author>
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				<title>Detachment based alternating turns proposal</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The idea is interesting, but I think is better applied if you use the Battlefield Roles as the addictional criteria to organize unit activation, instead of Detachments.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Dec 2017 15:46:42]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Cybtroll]]></author>
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