<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team) "]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team)
Apologies for the noob question but i was wondering, if I make a model and they have only a knife and an empty hand, can they still shoot if the models datasheet shows they have a gun standard and the knife is not replacing anything under war gear options?

Thanks in advance ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125320.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125320.page GMT Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125530.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125530.page GMT Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team)
However many groups have strong opinions on this and most tournaments have rules about this.

Best to discuss it with your play group rather than with us. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125569.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125569.page GMT Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team)
1) WYSIWYG - What you see is what you get - typically for most of the tournaments and gamers this means that the model appears distinct on the table from other different models and that the primary weapons that the model is armed with on its stats are represented on the model on the table top.

So ideally if you've a model with a gun as a primary weapon then it really should have a gun on the model itself.

This makes it easy for your opponent to tell which unit is which and their basic armed weapons.

2) Rule of Cool can trump anything - yeah honestly a well converted model/army can get away with more than one that is very poorly done.
Similarly sometimes extreme things get away with tricks - eg some tournaments have had My little Pony Marines play.

3) If in any doubt when attending a tournament ask/send photos BEFORE the event (ideally well before not the night before). This way the Tournament Organisers can say yes or no to what you've converted (baring in many different events can have variations in rules and interpretation of rules).
If you can't confirm before an event or game night then ideally take sufficient legal models to replace the converted ones or to field a different army composition.

4) If the model you are asking about is one of several in a unit and if others in that unit have hand guns then you have more chance of getting away with this as the majority of the unit is armed as described in the units rules.

5) Modelling for advantage. If you have two different units but make them look nearly identical then some might refuse the converted ones as they appear so similar to other units that on the tabletop this could be used to abuse the rules.
Other examples would be extreme sizes - eg super tiny (yeah that lictor is burrowed so only its head is on the base) or super large (yeah my landraider has a huge shoebox sized plough on the front). In both of those you model for advantage - one to hide the other to act as a mobile shield.
Both might look really cool might be more likely to be refused to play in tournaments and even in some casual games. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125577.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125577.page GMT Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team) WYSIWYG - only occasionally choosing 1-2 models that are not. (usually to sink points or reduce points to fit into a list)

Most people do not care - as long as you aren't rattling off a list of "this guy has a stubber, this one has a lascannon, this one has..." x10. Because even if they're differentiated visually - it's a burden to make your opponent remember that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125826.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125826.page GMT Re:Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team) WYSIWYG" is (to me, at least) showing respect for my opponent. I like for my opponent to not have to ask me "what are they armed with?", "What is that?", etc.

If you're new to the game, it's a tough thing to sell to some people. Generally speaking a player (casual or tournament) won't take it very well if unarmed characters start shooting at them. For instance if somebody advances toward some Genestealer Cultists and then you mention they have a couple of heavy weapons, or special weapons...well that's a bit unfair to the opposing player. This could get you a bit of a reputation. While an extreme example, if the unarmed guy with a knife is suddenly carrying a Genestealer Cult Mining Laser...people will be upset that they were unaware of that.

Now, admittedly you could start the game and go through your whole army explaining who has what - a lot of people do this. But that's time consuming and adds more time to the game as your opponent will not remember who has what.

It's less important the more minimal it is. If you have nine models with autoguns and one guy without an autgon...and simply say "this group all have autoguns" that's fine, shoudln't bug anybody. But special weapons, heavy weapons, etc. which are not present on the model suddenly appearing mid-game is not very kosher for a lot of folks.

Some people will froth at the mouth and argue "nowhere does it say the model has to have X!" etc...but the reality is that it's a visual tabletop wargame. Different models, and different weapons exist for a reason - to visually represent what a model is carrying/using. Go that route and you can never go wrong.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125836.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125836.page GMT Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team) WYSIWYG, most people are decent enough to not care as long as 1.) It's not confusing and 2.) it's not you being cheap.

For example, if someone wanted to model their Space Marine with a knife in one hand and a grenade readied in another, posed in such a way that it looks like he's stalking his prey ready to chuck the nade, that would be totally fine to run as either an Assault Marine on foot or a Tactical marine. He is technically lacking a stated weapon, but he isn't bringing anything new to the party and it's a pretty cool, if small, conversion. Since he's just baseline, the opponent can just assume he has the same weapon as another generic squad member.

Now if you brought a generic tactical marine holding a bolter as your "Chapter Master wielding master crafted bolt gun with artificer armor", that is *technically* a correct loadout, but it feels like a cheap cop-out. Most people would take issue with this than the above. Similarly, even if you convert a really nice marine wielding an eviscerator and claim he's using a Multi-Melta, even though it's cool, it'll get confusing during the match since your opponent probably won't be able to tell what weapon he's holding or if he's just a generic marine in a Devastator Squad.

Clear and Cool. Adhere to this and only the most nutty of people will get mad at you. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125929.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10125929.page GMT Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10126704.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10126704.page GMT Re:Noob question about conversions and rules. (Genestealer cult kill team)
 Elbows wrote:
I think the most important component of "WYSIWYG" is (to me, at least) showing respect for my opponent. I like for my opponent to not have to ask me "what are they armed with?", "What is that?", etc.

If you're new to the game, it's a tough thing to sell to some people. Generally speaking a player (casual or tournament) won't take it very well if unarmed characters start shooting at them. For instance if somebody advances toward some Genestealer Cultists and then you mention they have a couple of heavy weapons, or special weapons...well that's a bit unfair to the opposing player. This could get you a bit of a reputation. While an extreme example, if the unarmed guy with a knife is suddenly carrying a Genestealer Cult Mining Laser...people will be upset that they were unaware of that.

Now, admittedly you could start the game and go through your whole army explaining who has what - a lot of people do this. But that's time consuming and adds more time to the game as your opponent will not remember who has what.

It's less important the more minimal it is. If you have nine models with autoguns and one guy without an autgon...and simply say "this group all have autoguns" that's fine, shoudln't bug anybody. But special weapons, heavy weapons, etc. which are not present on the model suddenly appearing mid-game is not very kosher for a lot of folks.

Some people will froth at the mouth and argue "nowhere does it say the model has to have X!" etc...but the reality is that it's a visual tabletop wargame. Different models, and different weapons exist for a reason - to visually represent what a model is carrying/using. Go that route and you can never go wrong.


This, but less sanctimonious.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10126781.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/762787/10126781.page GMT