Dandelion wrote:
The long range penalty should either be changed or removed. As it is, it overly punishes short range guns without really bothering long range guns. It sort of works in Kill Team, but things like Tau breachers are way too difficult to use already. Transferring that to 8th would make them even more useless.
Instead, long range could be defined as 24"+ or 30"+ or whatever, and then just let certain weapons ignore it like snipers do in kill team.

That said I would personally just remove it and implement the 8th cover system alongside the obscurement penalty:
- So if you are within a terrain feature you get +1 to saves, this would be in addition to obscurement.
- Example: a guardsmen in a ruin or directly behind a barricade would be -1 to hit with +1 armor save.
The -1 represents being hard to see, and the +1 sv represents being dug in.

Dandelion wrote:
Oh, you misunderstand me, just have the -1 for obscurement and the +1 for cover. Ditch the long range penalty completely if you go that route. At least, that's what I plan to do for my games.

Edit:
Alternatively, have short/mid/long range values:
- Short range: 0-12" gives +1 to hit
- Mid range: 12-30" no bonus or penalty
- Long range: 30"+ gives -1 to hit

Then have specific interactions with weapons:
- Earthshaker cannon: cannot be fired at targets in short range and ignores long range penalty
- Transuranic arquebus: ignores long range penalty
etc...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though I do like what you've done with morale. I personally just thought of merging 8th's with Kill Team's, so you fail morale like in 8th, but you are also shaken. So some peeps run, while the squad is pinned.

Dandelion wrote:
Why would -1 to hit and +1 cover stall the game more than -1 to hit and -1 to hit at long range?

Just some quick math to show the difference:
Guardsmen shooting at other guardsmen:
- With -1 to hit and +1 sv: 12 shots to kill one guardsman (12*1/3*1/2*1/2 =1)
- With -2 to hit: 18 shots to kill one guardsman (18*1/6*1/2*2/3=1)

Or marines shooting other marines:
- With -1 to hit and +1 cover: 24 shots to kill 1 marine (24*1/2*1/2*1/6=1)
- With -2 to hit: 18 shots to kill 1 marine (18*1/3*1/2*1/3=1)

So it looks like it depends I guess.
Ultimately though, I'm not a fan of too many minuses to hit since there's only 6 numbers on a die to work with, spreading the bonus between hits and saves gives you 2 dice and 12 numbers to work with.

Plus at a certain point there's no penalty for moving with a heavy weapon, or advancing with assault weapons, or for degrading profiles to matter. If a Tau broadside is shooting an obscured target over long range, it can move and have the same hit rate (since 6s always hit). But, if you use the obscurement and cover, the broadside is still penalized for moving AND the target gets a better save.

As for the range difference, I don't really think it matters all that much since GW doesn't use math to point things so I doubt you're actually paying much for that extra range, if you are at all.

But, it's your rules so do what makes you happy.

mchammadad wrote:
I can see melee based armies would be struggling with the addition of charge into movement.

It's kinda a problem as you are essentially shortening their threat range by roughly 6-8 inches. Which matter a lot when your melee units can't get into CC before the shooting army decimates you.