<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)
First, the demon was born of the first murder (not the first killing). Why is the demon called "The End of Empires" then? What does a singular act of murder have to do with ending an empire? What does first act of murder have to do with the Emperor? The Emperor says his father was murdered by his uncle, and the Emperor, in turn, killed his uncle (the Emperor is an untrustworthy narrator, in my opinion..so his factual telling of this incident is suspect). Is this a coincidence? Was Drach'nyen born of this series of murders? Is there an implication that this series of murders began with Cain and Abel? Cain was cursed to an immorality of suffering for his crime. Are they hinting that Emperor is the biblical Cain? Is the Emperor the one who cursed Cain, instead of killing him (like the Emperor says he did)?

When the demon shows up in the webway, it's obviously very powerful. But, it eventually runs away from the custodian that's hunting it because it's been shot all to hell and it's afraid it's going to "die". If it's possible that Drach'nyen can be killed/banished by a hail of bullets, explosions, and stabs, how is it possible that the Emperor (the most powerful "human" psyker ever, a master of physical combat, and every other superlative you can think of) can't kill/banish it? He can literally blink and destroy thousands of demons, the four demon lords of chaos are terrified of him....but he can't kill this one? Is this poor writing or another implication that the Emperor is tied to the demon (because he was the one that created it)?

Why did the Emperor lock Drach'nyen in the shape of a sword? Why not a ball or a wooden spoon or dinner plate or sneaker or something? Is the Emperor trying to help the demon kill him?

Is this the setup for Abaddon using Drach'nyen to kill the Emperor?

Am I reading too much into this? Am I missing an obvious piece of lore from somewhere?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226012.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226012.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers) 40k so surely one of them in millenia stabbed their neighbour or something?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226051.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226051.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)
pm713 wrote:
I'm confused why a demon born of murder is a human thing. There are several civilisations before humans in 40k so surely one of them in millenia stabbed their neighbour or something?


I agree completely. If it's not outright stated somewhere, I think it's implied that Drach'nyen was born of the first human murder.

There were sentient beings murdering each other millions of years before humanity was a thing.

It could, however, be the weird warp time thing that, like Slaanesh, it always existed, even before it was born.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226064.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226064.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers) It probably developed over time, as many empires have fallen due to the murder/assassination of kings, Emperors, and various leaders in empires/kingdoms across millenia. The key difference is that it's not actively worshipped (as far as we know) and its a byproduct rather than something being channelled actively by humanity. Khaine supposedly wanted to wipe out the Eldar at some point, so it's not far-fetched to see something spawned from humanity want to wipe them out as well (or in this case, the "embodiment" of humanity, aka Big E).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226076.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)
So it may be coincidental (read: some planned reason but not that) that he chose a sword and later Abaddon gets a sword.

Not that that answers your overall question or anything, but some relevant info


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In answer to Daemons being borne of human emotion.
I think it’s that we were the emotionally strongest and therefore easiest to form things from.

(As many peoples plans (The Cabal) were to destroy humanity as it would pretty much destroys chaos’ power base hugely, the other races don’t affect as much - even the elder over Slaanesh, that was just how s/he was born).

The emperor wanted to lock humanity away in the webway to stem their power to the gods, and become psychically able to destroy chaos.


(Dare I say 1st Edition Rogue Trader holds some information on this.. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226114.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226114.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226315.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226315.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)
End of empires might refer to a task or event in the demons "life". demonic names are tied to what demons are after all.

E can't blink him out of existence because he's just that powerfull. It didn't just run from a custodian in that scene but a giant ambush of custodians,mechanicum and sister of silence.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226319.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226319.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)
 Earth127 wrote:

Also E can't blink him out of existence because he's just that powerfull.


I'm reading it as the Emperor can't defeat Drach'nyen AT ALL.

It's my understanding that the Emperor could defeat Khorne or Nurgle or Tzeentch or Slaanesh (that's why they're all afraid of him). Not that he could blink the big four out of existence like lesser demons, but in a one-on-one fight to annihilation, the Emperor wins.

Drach'nyen is different. In a one-on-one fight to annihilation, the Emperor loses.

Why can't he beat Drach'nyen? My guess is that it's because he made Drach'nyen and Drach'nyen is therefore tied to him (like a named oni from L5R).

 Earth127 wrote:
It didn't just run from a custodian in that scene but a giant ambush of custodians,mechanicum and sister of silence.


Yeah. But the demon is afraid of being destroyed by these "mundane" forces. It's not afraid of being destroyed by the Emperor. It knows the Emperor can't destroy it. Why?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226330.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226330.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)
jbuck wrote:
I finally read Master of Mankind recently and have some thoughts and questions about the demon Drach'nyen (a.k.a. End of Empires) and his relationship to the Emperor.

First, the demon was born of the first murder (not the first killing). Why is the demon called "The End of Empires" then? What does a singular act of murder have to do with ending an empire? What does first act of murder have to do with the Emperor? The Emperor says his father was murdered by his uncle, and the Emperor, in turn, killed his uncle (the Emperor is an untrustworthy narrator, in my opinion..so his factual telling of this incident is suspect). Is this a coincidence? Was Drach'nyen born of this series of murders? Is there an implication that this series of murders began with Cain and Abel? Cain was cursed to an immorality of suffering for his crime. Are they hinting that Emperor is the biblical Cain? Is the Emperor the one who cursed Cain, instead of killing him (like the Emperor says he did)?

When the demon shows up in the webway, it's obviously very powerful. But, it eventually runs away from the custodian that's hunting it because it's been shot all to hell and it's afraid it's going to "die". If it's possible that Drach'nyen can be killed/banished by a hail of bullets, explosions, and stabs, how is it possible that the Emperor (the most powerful "human" psyker ever, a master of physical combat, and every other superlative you can think of) can't kill/banish it? He can literally blink and destroy thousands of demons, the four demon lords of chaos are terrified of him....but he can't kill this one? Is this poor writing or another implication that the Emperor is tied to the demon (because he was the one that created it)?

Why did the Emperor lock Drach'nyen in the shape of a sword? Why not a ball or a wooden spoon or dinner plate or sneaker or something? Is the Emperor trying to help the demon kill him?

Is this the setup for Abaddon using Drach'nyen to kill the Emperor?

Am I reading too much into this? Am I missing an obvious piece of lore from somewhere?



Because the daemon is 'destined' to end all empires and bring forth Chaos' rule.

No that is not a coincidence, the Emperor is far far too young to be the first murderer. The first murder would be hundreds of thousands of years before the Emperor was born, millions if you are counting all the homo-genesis'.

Yeah he can't kill this one because it is obviously so powerful and also he wasn't in the material universe, so he would be stronger.

No the Emperor is not helping the daemon kill him, how do you work that out? Drach'nyen turned himself into a sword, to drink the Emperors lifeforce and the Emperor struck Ra with.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226358.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226358.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
No the Emperor is not helping the daemon kill him, how do you work that out?


Because the Emperor turned him into/trapped it in the form of a weapon, instead of something incapable of causing harm?

I realize the reason is probably "because demon swords are cool and demon pebbles/spoons/sneakers are not".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226364.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226364.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)
jbuck wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
No the Emperor is not helping the daemon kill him, how do you work that out?


Because the Emperor turned him into/trapped it in the form of a weapon, instead of something incapable of causing harm?

I realize the reason is probably "because demon swords are cool and demon pebbles/spoons/sneakers are not".


He didn't, he was struck with the blade, he only trapped it by striking Ra with it.

"+Ra.+ The sending was thick with pained defiance. And then, ‘Ra,’ He said aloud, raising His eyes to
meet His loyal Custodian’s horrified gaze.
A blade ran through the Emperor’s body. An ornate sword, as much sorcerous bone as metal, a weapon
with writhing, shrieking faces soul-carved upon the steel. The faces shrieked as they drank the Emperor’s
divine life. It thrashed as the Emperor clutched it in His hands. It was alive, starving, its form rippling and
growing indistinct.
With a cry the Emperor pulled the weapon free, unsheathing it from His own body. He hurled it from His
grip, casting it aside with a surge of armour-boosted strength and devastating telekinetic force.
Ra blinked once with the impact, feeling it as a thunder-crack against his chest. He swallowed, finding
himself unable to breathe. Blood streamed from his mouth, denying the passage of air.
It was a blade through his body. It was a daemon embracing him. It was a disease in his blood, eating at
his bones. It was there and it wasn’t there, everything and nothing.
The Custodian fell to his knees, hands curling around the impaling blade. The thwarted rage of the
daemon sent nerve pain lightning-bolting through his fingers.
‘Why?’ Ra asked his king"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226366.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226366.page GMT Drach'nyen: Questions and comments (Master of Mankind spoilers)
jbuck wrote:


Yeah. But the demon is afraid of being destroyed by these "mundane" forces. It's not afraid of being destroyed by the Emperor. It knows the Emperor can't destroy it. Why?


It wasn't afriad untill it started being torn apart by them. It wasn't afraid at the start ofteh fight only the end. Also fate being set in stone is highly debatable in warhammer. There is such a thing as fate and prophecy but it can be changed and proven wrong.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226946.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/766666/10226946.page GMT