Formosa wrote:
He is an absolute powerhouse, he has the mark of all 4 gods, a Deamon weapon with the echo of the first murder (that nearly killed the emperor), is a peerless warrior prior to chaos even coming near him, traveled the eye extensively prior to founding the black legion, founded the black legion, through means unknown forced All of the Deamon primarchs to do his bidding (kyons words), United all of the shattered legions (for a time).

Not bad for a fella with no arms

 Danielle Rae wrote:
See, that's why he needs a new high-detail plastic model. Much as I have enjoyed it, we gotta kill that meme XD

 Ginjitzu wrote:

 Danielle Rae wrote:
See, that's why he needs a new high-detail plastic model. Much as I have enjoyed it, we gotta kill that meme XD

Absolutely! I doubt anyone would disagree. A lot of people ridicule Abaddon, but I don't think anybody actively enjoys how lame he often comes across. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that his new model might come relatively soon either. What with the Space Marines "spiritual liege" being reborn last weekend, it seems like the baddest "mortal" champion of Chaos getting his some, would be the perfect complement.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
he is so powerful in the lore because he is chaos represent in human form. if you want to read about him, its worth looking at the heresy novels featuring him, and ADB novels, which chart his rise as chaos champion after the heresy. they really give his character a lot of depth.

 Danielle Rae wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
he is so powerful in the lore because he is chaos represent in human form. if you want to read about him, its worth looking at the heresy novels featuring him, and ADB novels, which chart his rise as chaos champion after the heresy. they really give his character a lot of depth.

On that note I frikkin love the voice the narrator gives him in Horus Rising. It always sounds like he's simultaneously overflowing with repressed aggression and yet still 100% in control.

 Danielle Rae wrote:

See, that's why he needs a new high-detail plastic model.

 Danielle Rae wrote:
So this has been bugging me for a while. It seems to me, not having read much official fiction but reading a lot of Lexicanum and listening to lore videos, that Abbaddon is much stronger in-lore than on the tabletop. On tabletop, he's roughly on a tier with Calgar or Celestine, or maybe a little bit stronger, but with proper use of strategems and a little lucky dice rolling they can take him. But I've seen people talking about how he would absolutely trash Calgar if the two fought in-lore. So what are the things about Abbaddon's personal strength which are not represented on tabletop? I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with Drachnyen, which seems much stronger in-lore than just an extra D6 attacks.

This is not about his capabilities as a leader, which has far as I can tell in 8th edition are well-represented by his +2CP and re-roll hits aura.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Danielle Rae wrote:
So this has been bugging me for a while. It seems to me, not having read much official fiction but reading a lot of Lexicanum and listening to lore videos, that Abbaddon is much stronger in-lore than on the tabletop. On tabletop, he's roughly on a tier with Calgar or Celestine, or maybe a little bit stronger, but with proper use of strategems and a little lucky dice rolling they can take him. But I've seen people talking about how he would absolutely trash Calgar if the two fought in-lore. So what are the things about Abbaddon's personal strength which are not represented on tabletop? I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with Drachnyen, which seems much stronger in-lore than just an extra D6 attacks.

This is not about his capabilities as a leader, which has far as I can tell in 8th edition are well-represented by his +2CP and re-roll hits aura.

Well he has fought nearly every challenger to his throne for 10,000 years, which not all lords do, he didn't do too bad against the fight with Kharn as well, so he's no slouch, plus he killed the cloned Horus, though it was a clone. Though its only in recent lore where Abaddon has become a serious badass, before that he was kind of a scooby do villain, which I'm glad he's not doing well as its stupid to have the leader of the chaos forces in the materium be so goofy.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Danielle Rae wrote:
So this has been bugging me for a while. It seems to me, not having read much official fiction but reading a lot of Lexicanum and listening to lore videos, that Abbaddon is much stronger in-lore than on the tabletop. On tabletop, he's roughly on a tier with Calgar or Celestine, or maybe a little bit stronger, but with proper use of strategems and a little lucky dice rolling they can take him. But I've seen people talking about how he would absolutely trash Calgar if the two fought in-lore. So what are the things about Abbaddon's personal strength which are not represented on tabletop? I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with Drachnyen, which seems much stronger in-lore than just an extra D6 attacks.

This is not about his capabilities as a leader, which has far as I can tell in 8th edition are well-represented by his +2CP and re-roll hits aura.

Well he has fought nearly every challenger to his throne for 10,000 years, which not all lords do, he didn't do too bad against the fight with Kharn as well, so he's no slouch, plus he killed the cloned Horus, though it was a clone. Though its only in recent lore where Abaddon has become a serious badass, before that he was kind of a scooby do villain, which I'm glad he's not doing well as its stupid to have the leader of the chaos forces in the materium be so goofy.

Well if you want to get devious it could be he actually is a total tool and a complete b3wb as a leader and that's how the csm want it. They don't want a strong competent leader that can force his will on all the CSM legions, they like their independence too much. So they all conspire to keep him in the lead role because he can't stop them from going their own way most of the time.

I don't actually advocate that theory but it is a kind of plot twist I could see being raised.

That is ridiculous, the gods need Abaddon, they need a competent leader in the materium, otherwise they'd get rid of him. Other legions are too busy doing their own thing to care about Abaddon especially the ones that have a specific god. The fact that they all work in concert with one another especially after the the great scouring, that he got the legions to do anything together was a miracle, other warbands and legions don't have to lend their help to Abaddon unless the gods directly tell them too or Abaddon is a position to make them, Abaddon doesn't let legions have their own independence, he tries to make them work for him, like the case in the red path. Its absurd to to say he is a bad leader when he had stayed on top for 10,000 years.

Not Online!!! wrote:

That is ridiculous, the gods need Abaddon, they need a competent leader in the materium, otherwise they'd get rid of him. Other legions are too busy doing their own thing to care about Abaddon especially the ones that have a specific god. The fact that they all work in concert with one another especially after the the great scouring, that he got the legions to do anything together was a miracle, other warbands and legions don't have to lend their help to Abaddon unless the gods directly tell them too or Abaddon is a position to make them, Abaddon doesn't let legions have their own independence, he tries to make them work for him, like the case in the red path. Its absurd to to say he is a bad leader when he had stayed on top for 10,000 years.

Are you sure about that?
Tzeentch does not want the imperium gone, since he needs it's corrupt ambitious groups.
Nurgle likes the endless tagnation.
Khorne does not care, virtually, So long there is bloodshed there is bloodshed. Infact he most likely wants the imperium around excactly for the scale that it can provide bloodshed.
Slaanesh: Honestly he get's off on anything so i think he does not care.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

That is ridiculous, the gods need Abaddon, they need a competent leader in the materium, otherwise they'd get rid of him. Other legions are too busy doing their own thing to care about Abaddon especially the ones that have a specific god. The fact that they all work in concert with one another especially after the the great scouring, that he got the legions to do anything together was a miracle, other warbands and legions don't have to lend their help to Abaddon unless the gods directly tell them too or Abaddon is a position to make them, Abaddon doesn't let legions have their own independence, he tries to make them work for him, like the case in the red path. Its absurd to to say he is a bad leader when he had stayed on top for 10,000 years.

Are you sure about that?
Tzeentch does not want the imperium gone, since he needs it's corrupt ambitious groups.
Nurgle likes the endless tagnation.
Khorne does not care, virtually, So long there is bloodshed there is bloodshed. Infact he most likely wants the imperium around excactly for the scale that it can provide bloodshed.
Slaanesh: Honestly he get's off on anything so i think he does not care.

They want the Imperium in chains, so they can kill and make them suffer on mass like on daemon planets like in the eye. Yeah they masterminded the HH for no reason at all, if they wanted to keep the Imperium in place then why do they call the Emperor the anatheme and have a daemon destined to kill him, I mean come on. Most planets in the Imperium are peaceful places, where humans get along quite nicely, why would Chaos not want to maximise their suffering...

 Nurglitch wrote:
I've heard his power is over 9000.

nareik wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
I've heard his power is over 9000.

*Primarneus angrily rips out and crushes his bionic eye in the Gauntlets of Ultramar*

epronovost wrote:
I sure hope that if and when they do Abbadon model again, his top-knot will be even more fantastic. I love the fact, that his haircut is mentionned as being his trademark in HH novels.

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

That is ridiculous, the gods need Abaddon, they need a competent leader in the materium, otherwise they'd get rid of him. Other legions are too busy doing their own thing to care about Abaddon especially the ones that have a specific god. The fact that they all work in concert with one another especially after the the great scouring, that he got the legions to do anything together was a miracle, other warbands and legions don't have to lend their help to Abaddon unless the gods directly tell them too or Abaddon is a position to make them, Abaddon doesn't let legions have their own independence, he tries to make them work for him, like the case in the red path. Its absurd to to say he is a bad leader when he had stayed on top for 10,000 years.

Are you sure about that?
Tzeentch does not want the imperium gone, since he needs it's corrupt ambitious groups.
Nurgle likes the endless tagnation.
Khorne does not care, virtually, So long there is bloodshed there is bloodshed. Infact he most likely wants the imperium around excactly for the scale that it can provide bloodshed.
Slaanesh: Honestly he get's off on anything so i think he does not care.

They want the Imperium in chains, so they can kill and make them suffer on mass like on daemon planets like in the eye. Yeah they masterminded the HH for no reason at all, if they wanted to keep the Imperium in place then why do they call the Emperor the anatheme and have a daemon destined to kill him, I mean come on. Most planets in the Imperium are peaceful places, where humans get along quite nicely, why would Chaos not want to maximise their suffering...

Simply put, they lied.

See the warp touches all realities, and the gods touch all realities that he warp touches, so losing the 40k universe, as with the warhammer universe before it, would not affect the gods in any meaningful way, they have infinite variations of realities in which to feed.

This part is conjecture: I think the gods are part of a greater force, an extra dimensional force that manifests itself in all realities in some form or other, just as realities are created by the world dragon (AOS) this entity (call it the primordial annihilator) destroys them but unlike the big four it doesn’t really have sentience, it just is.

Oddly enough the fluff actually supports this theory

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I thought his hairdo was related to Cthonian culture? It'd be a crime to chop the top in a new model.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I may be a minority but I think abaddon needs a new haircut, as do all the chaos characters. Maybe a High fade psychobilly slicked back pomp. I feel like abaddon wouldn't waste time shaving round a plume of hair and wrapping it.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
When I think, "menacing badass," a topknot isn't exactly the first haircut that springs to mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
...Most planets in the Imperium are peaceful places, where humans get along quite nicely...

Where are you getting this? I've always felt that rather the opposite is true.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
When I think, "menacing badass," a topknot isn't exactly the first haircut that springs to mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
...Most planets in the Imperium are peaceful places, where humans get along quite nicely...

Where are you getting this? I've always felt that rather the opposite is true.

In relative terms to the Gods needs, yeah the poor suffer in hive worlds etc. but thats not really substantial food for the gods.

 Danielle Rae wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
When I think, "menacing badass," a topknot isn't exactly the first haircut that springs to mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
...Most planets in the Imperium are peaceful places, where humans get along quite nicely...

Where are you getting this? I've always felt that rather the opposite is true.

In relative terms to the Gods needs, yeah the poor suffer in hive worlds etc. but thats not really substantial food for the gods.

I'd say that hive worlds are perfect for the gods. It's telling that massive genestealer and chaos cults frequently pop up on them despite the iron grip of the adeptus arbites, the pervasive official religion and the watchful eye of the inquisition. You gotta assume that for every uprising there were probably hundreds nipped in the bud, but they keep coming. That tells me that the people of the underhives are in some of the direst straits imaginable if they'd continuously throw in their lots with such fell powers and willingly embrace mutations as a price for a small chance at getting vengeance on their oppressors.

Plus the Night Lords and Blood Ravens both found hive world gangers plenty tough enough to become space marines.

 Danielle Rae wrote:
So this has been bugging me for a while. It seems to me, not having read much official fiction but reading a lot of Lexicanum and listening to lore videos, that Abbaddon is much stronger in-lore than on the tabletop. On tabletop, he's roughly on a tier with Calgar or Celestine, or maybe a little bit stronger, but with proper use of strategems and a little lucky dice rolling they can take him. But I've seen people talking about how he would absolutely trash Calgar if the two fought in-lore. So what are the things about Abbaddon's personal strength which are not represented on tabletop? I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with Drachnyen, which seems much stronger in-lore than just an extra D6 attacks.

This is not about his capabilities as a leader, which has far as I can tell in 8th edition are well-represented by his +2CP and re-roll hits aura.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Then retcon that lore! Topknot= hipster

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Then retcon that lore! Topknot= hipster

man buns are hipsterish.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Then retcon that lore! Topknot= hipster

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Then retcon that lore! Topknot= hipster

No, 'they lied' is also complete conjecture and its completely wrong. a) they gods compete against one another so they aren't flippant about the few souls in the Imperium and b) why would they so stringently interfere with mankind and be so set on killing the Emperor and destroying the Imperium. That they want to enslave mankind is fact its established in the lore. Even logically, think about it if you were right then on daemon worlds they'd allow humans to make tribes and constantly war, but they don't they are slaves and they are made to fight every day in area's in Khorne worlds, Slaanesh uses them as torture slaves etc. Why would they let mankind have any power when they can just enslave them and 'make' them do what chaos wants.

 Deadshot wrote:
In lore he's one of the most powerful fighters in the entire setting. Even before the Heresy, he was famous, but afterwards, he's nearly, if not already, Primarch tier. His list of feats is a mile long in the lore. Just to make one example, he defeated Sigismund during the first black crusade, when Abaddon was at his weakest, and Sigismund has always been known as the best duelist and fighter in the entire Space Marine range. He was so powerful, that he was personally chosen by the Emperor as His Champion, challenged and defeated every enemy leader on Terra, and Abaddon even refused to come and face him during the Siege.

So a few thousand years later, Abaddon defeats him and only gets stronger from there. He's currently the default and defacto leader of the Chaos forces despite the prescence of the Daemon Primarchs.

On the table he sucks but in the lore he munches Swarmlords and Avatars for breakfast.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
It depends. Abaddon is a badass among badasses, a peerless warrior in an entire faction of peerless warriors. Like, look at the kind of crap the other major Chaos marines like Ahriman and Kharn do and think about how Abaddon is stronger than them and demands more respect.

Naturally, this all falls apart the moment he's up against an Ultramarine because there's no getting around protagonist power.

 Saber wrote:
Have you seen Sigismund's rules for Heresy games? Abaddon beat that.

Abaddon also managed to tarry with the Chaos gods, gain their favor, and keep his soul.

Abaddon is a bad dude.

 Esmer wrote:
On Abaddon's hair:

How is his pimptastic hairdo even possible? He has this giant flowing mane tied up in his top knot, yet he's almost completely bald safe for that tiny spot on the top of his head. Somehow, I think the sculptor of the original model didn't realize how hair works. The Sisters of Silence have the same issue.

The one explanation I can think of is that it isn't actually his own hair, which of course would make Abbadon's character even more ridiculous.

 Formosa wrote:
is a peerless warrior prior to chaos even coming near him

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
is a peerless warrior prior to chaos even coming near him

Not true in the slightest. He had several peers throughout the Legions. Sigismund was a pointedly better fighter- Sigi nearly killed Abaddon long past his prime when Abaddon was still in his thanks to warp fuckery (and while possessing his mad Chaos backing). Since Sevatar was Sigi's peer, we can say there were at least two Space Marines who could have taken down Abaddon, no questions asked, prior to Chaos taking him.