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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I don't think any of the loyal Primarchs would ever see the Emperor as a god but if one did start believing that, which would become a Primarch zealot? ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 3 Apr 2019 18:57:20]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Delvarus Centurion]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Guilliman for 2 reasons:<br /> <br /> A) He is currently the only eligible candidate b/c all other Loyal Primarchs are dead or lost<br /> B) In order to keep the Imperium together, he may support the Imperial Truth just to pacify the masses and prevent another civil war.  But he probably won't really believe it, just won't deny it.<br /> <br /> However, if we assume all the Loyal Bois come back, I could see Sanguinius being a believer.  Likely because he may see the psychic entity that Emps has become on the throne<br /> <br /> -]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 3 Apr 2019 19:32:14]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Galef]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ It seems doubtful to me that any of them would change their mind. Lorgar was the only moron in the group, and that ship sailed a loooong time ago. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 3 Apr 2019 19:51:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Togusa]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/367f3332b4b1d44b4394686da405db3b.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10403970.page"><b>Galef wrote:</b></a><br/>Guilliman for 2 reasons:<br /> <br /> A) He is currently the only eligible candidate b/c all other Loyal Primarchs are dead or lost<br /> B) In order to keep the Imperium together, he may support the Imperial Truth just to pacify the masses and prevent another civil war.  But he probably won't really believe it, just won't deny it.<br /> <br /> However, if we assume all the Loyal Bois come back, I could see Sanguinius being a believer.  Likely because he may see the psychic entity that Emps has become on the throne<br /> <br /> -</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Yeah I agree, I'd probably choose him as well.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 3 Apr 2019 20:03:40]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Delvarus Centurion]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Gulliman has actively discussed the emperor's divinity and, it's possiable he may come to belive, dark imperium shows him having some private doubts of his convictions ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 3 Apr 2019 20:44:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ BrianDavion]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10404087.page"><b>BrianDavion wrote:</b></a><br/>Gulliman has actively discussed the emperor's divinity and, it's possiable he may come to belive, dark imperium shows him having some private doubts of his convictions </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I don't remember that, I took it that Guilliman just pays lip service to the divinity of the Emperor.  I found he has problems with the Emperor being seen as a god but never thought he had doubts.  Got any quotes that show that?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 4 Apr 2019 15:43:02]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Delvarus Centurion]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Guilliman surveyed it all disapprovingly. Worship of his creator had become the bedrock of the Imperium. It was as pernicious as the efforts of Chaos, in its way. He did not understand it, but as he looked around this cathedral, one like many hundreds he had seen all across the Imperium, he doubted his own convictions regarding the Emperor’s divinity.<br /> <br /> <i>Theoretical</i>, he thought. <i>The Emperor is a god and denied His own divinity to protect humanity. Practical, He is a god.<br /> <br /> Or,</i> he continued to himself, <i>Theoretical, the Emperor was not a god, but became one. Practical, He is a god.</i><br /> <br /> He dismissed the idea angrily. These theoreticals had trooped through his thoughts so many times before he had grown weary of them, but his mind would not stop generating counter-arguments to his beliefs.<br /> <br /> <i>Theoretical, the Emperor was always a god, but was unaware of it. Practical, He is a god.<br /> <br /> No, </i>he thought.<br /> <br /> <i>Theoretical, the Emperor became a god to protect humanity. Practical, He is a god.<br /> <br /> He is not a god, </i>he thought.<br /> <br /> <i>Theoretical</i>, Guilliman thought savagely now, turning his anger against his traitorous mind. <i>The Emperor was never a god, denied He was a god and has been wrongly elevated by men who see power and mistake it for divinity. Practical, the Emperor is not a god.</i><br /> <br /> <i>‘He is not a god,’</i> said Guilliman out loud. He could not countenance the thought. A being that cold and callous was not worthy of worship.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 4 Apr 2019 21:52:46]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Karhedron]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/e9385c636ddbc1a6ba8204d9c20fbf3e.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10405540.page"><b>Karhedron wrote:</b></a><br/>Guilliman surveyed it all disapprovingly. Worship of his creator had become the bedrock of the Imperium. It was as pernicious as the efforts of Chaos, in its way. He did not understand it, but as he looked around this cathedral, one like many hundreds he had seen all across the Imperium, he doubted his own convictions regarding the Emperor’s divinity.<br /> <br /> <i>Theoretical</i>, he thought. <i>The Emperor is a god and denied His own divinity to protect humanity. Practical, He is a god.<br /> <br /> Or,</i> he continued to himself, <i>Theoretical, the Emperor was not a god, but became one. Practical, He is a god.</i><br /> <br /> He dismissed the idea angrily. These theoreticals had trooped through his thoughts so many times before he had grown weary of them, but his mind would not stop generating counter-arguments to his beliefs.<br /> <br /> <i>Theoretical, the Emperor was always a god, but was unaware of it. Practical, He is a god.<br /> <br /> No, </i>he thought.<br /> <br /> <i>Theoretical, the Emperor became a god to protect humanity. Practical, He is a god.<br /> <br /> He is not a god, </i>he thought.<br /> <br /> <i>Theoretical</i>, Guilliman thought savagely now, turning his anger against his traitorous mind. <i>The Emperor was never a god, denied He was a god and has been wrongly elevated by men who see power and mistake it for divinity. Practical, the Emperor is not a god.</i><br /> <br /> <i>‘He is not a god,’</i> said Guilliman out loud. He could not countenance the thought. A being that cold and callous was not worthy of worship.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Cheers!]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 4 Apr 2019 21:54:07]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Delvarus Centurion]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/e9385c636ddbc1a6ba8204d9c20fbf3e.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10405540.page"><b>Karhedron wrote:</b></a><br/>Guilliman surveyed it all disapprovingly. Worship of his creator had become the bedrock of the Imperium. It was as pernicious as the efforts of Chaos, in its way. He did not understand it, but as he looked around this cathedral, one like many hundreds he had seen all across the Imperium, he doubted his own convictions regarding the Emperor’s divinity.<br /> <br /> <i>‘He is not a god,’</i> said Guilliman out loud. He could not countenance the thought. A being that cold and callous was not worthy of worship.</div></blockquote><br /> That bit makes me like Guilliman so much more. It's nice seeing a Primarch criticise him.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 5 Apr 2019 13:49:37]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ pm713]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10406080.page"><b>pm713 wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/e9385c636ddbc1a6ba8204d9c20fbf3e.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10405540.page"><b>Karhedron wrote:</b></a><br/>Guilliman surveyed it all disapprovingly. Worship of his creator had become the bedrock of the Imperium. It was as pernicious as the efforts of Chaos, in its way. He did not understand it, but as he looked around this cathedral, one like many hundreds he had seen all across the Imperium, he doubted his own convictions regarding the Emperor’s divinity.<br /> <br /> <i>‘He is not a god,’</i> said Guilliman out loud. He could not countenance the thought. A being that cold and callous was not worthy of worship.</div></blockquote><br /> That bit makes me like Guilliman so much more. It's nice seeing a Primarch criticise him.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I feel that's mostly what all of them did. If the Primarchs are known for any one collective trait, it's daddy issues. <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0"> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 5 Apr 2019 14:39:34]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Darth Bob]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/86d568022f6cebb67ef080a1e5e434f3.png" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10406176.page"><b>Darth Bob wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10406080.page"><b>pm713 wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/e9385c636ddbc1a6ba8204d9c20fbf3e.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10405540.page"><b>Karhedron wrote:</b></a><br/>Guilliman surveyed it all disapprovingly. Worship of his creator had become the bedrock of the Imperium. It was as pernicious as the efforts of Chaos, in its way. He did not understand it, but as he looked around this cathedral, one like many hundreds he had seen all across the Imperium, he doubted his own convictions regarding the Emperor’s divinity.<br /> <br /> <i>‘He is not a god,’</i> said Guilliman out loud. He could not countenance the thought. A being that cold and callous was not worthy of worship.</div></blockquote><br /> That bit makes me like Guilliman so much more. It's nice seeing a Primarch criticise him.</div></blockquote><br /> I feel that's mostly what all of them did. If the Primarchs are known for any one collective trait, it's daddy issues. <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0"> </div></blockquote><br /> Guilliman less so than most originally. However a lot of his faith in the Emperor gets shattered in their conversation after his resurrection. The truth of his nature hits Guilliman brutally hard and and Dark Imperium makes it clear he is still hurting a century later. He is trying to do his best for humanity but he seems to be past trying to please the Emperor.<br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> Coldness. That was the defining sensation of his meeting with the Emperor. Infinite, terrible coldness.<br /> <br /> He had approached the meeting with dread, fearing what he would find. Would his father be dead? Would He be insane? Would they even be able to talk? When he had been admitted to the throne room and approached the Golden Throne, he had done so as he had approached his foster father Konor’s funeral, willing it all to be right, drowning in certain grief. Between the time of the Emperor’s ascension to the throne and Guilliman’s own death, the Emperor had spoken to no one. How could anything have persisted for ten thousand years, he had thought. There was the wizened corpse surrounded by banks of groaning machinery, His sword upon His knee. Sorrow suffused everything. The sacrifice required to keep the Emperor alive sickened the primarch. If He were alive. He appeared dead. Guilliman had expected nothing.<br /> <br /> But He spoke.<br /> <br /> With words of light and fire, the Emperor had conferred with His returned primarch, the last of His finest creations.<br /> <br /> A creation. Not a son.<br /> <br /> The living Emperor had been an artful being, as skilled at hiding His thoughts as He was at reading those of others. What remained of Him was powerful beyond comprehension, but it lacked the subtlety He had had whilst He walked among men. Speaking with the Emperor had been like conversing with a star. The Emperor’s words burned him.<br /> <br /> What hurt most deeply was what went unsaid.<br /> <br /> The Emperor greeted Guilliman not as a father receives a son, but as a craftsmen who rediscovers a favourite tool that he thought lost. He behaved like a prisoner locked in an iron cage who is passed a rasp.<br /> <br /> Guilliman had no illusions. He was not the man who brought the rasp; he was the rasp.<br /> <br /> While the Emperor had walked abroad, He had cloaked His manipulations in love. He had let His primarchs call Him father; He had let them call themselves His sons. He had rarely spoken those words Himself, Guilliman now realised, and when He had He had done so without sincerity. Buffeted by the full might of the Emperor’s will unclothed in flesh, a cloak had been ripped from Guilliman’s eyes.<br /> <br /> The Emperor had allowed them to love Him, and to believe He loved them in return. He had not. His primarchs were weapons, that was all.<br /> <br /> Though His power was immense, perhaps greater than it had been before He ascended, the Emperor’s humanity was all but gone. He could no longer mask His thoughts with a human face. The Emperor’s light was blinding, all encompassing, but finally – finally – Guilliman had seen it as a whole. The being he had thought of as a father could hide nothing from him.<br /> <br /> The Emperor did not love His sons. They were things. Guilliman, all his brothers, were nothing but a means to an end.</div></blockquote>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 5 Apr 2019 22:26:37]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Karhedron]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Every time I read that bit about Primarchs tools I can't help but think it highlights how little the Heresy made sense.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 6 Apr 2019 01:02:00]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ pm713]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well its likely the end of the horus heresy will change, the old story we know is likely what the internal imperium might think, that the emperor loved his sons and had to force himself to end his favoured son. The Horus heresy novels are likely a closer to the truth (while keeping <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(327);'>BL</span> usual "its all canon not all true mantra). How the emperor treats his sons and the thunder warrior stuff gives horus and the traitors some justification in their actions, though clearly they got far too deep into chaos. <br /> <br /> Im interested to see the new ending for <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(320);'>HH</span>,I am kind of expecting the new ending to be emps starts giving up on his job of saving humanity, after seeing what horus has become and decides maybe humanity wasnt worth it all along, only for pious to jump in the way and that reignites his feelings. <br /> <br /> On topic though I could imagine Russ believing in emps as a god, it took a bit for him to adjust to him not being one when he first met him, and after so long in the warp he might have adjusted to the idea that emps is same level as chaos gods so basically is one. If the Lion comes back I could see him just siding with the ecclisiarchy in insisting emps is one to try and one up guillaman.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 6 Apr 2019 01:14:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mothman]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ It seems to me that guilleman should view the emperor as a tool to use to save humanity. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 6 Apr 2019 01:38:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Techpriestsupport]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/214e04d92d42634b94a481d2316a5534.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10406774.page"><b>Mothman wrote:</b></a><br/>Well its likely the end of the horus heresy will change, the old story we know is likely what the internal imperium might think, that the emperor loved his sons and had to force himself to end his favoured son. The Horus heresy novels are likely a closer to the truth (while keeping <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(327);'>BL</span> usual "its all canon not all true mantra). How the emperor treats his sons and the thunder warrior stuff gives horus and the traitors some justification in their actions, though clearly they got far too deep into chaos. <br /> <br /> Im interested to see the new ending for <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(320);'>HH</span>,I am kind of expecting the new ending to be emps starts giving up on his job of saving humanity, after seeing what horus has become and decides maybe humanity wasnt worth it all along, only for pious to jump in the way and that reignites his feelings. <br /> <br /> On topic though I could imagine Russ believing in emps as a god, it took a bit for him to adjust to him not being one when he first met him, and after so long in the warp he might have adjusted to the idea that emps is same level as chaos gods so basically is one. If the Lion comes back I could see him just siding with the ecclisiarchy in insisting emps is one to try and one up guillaman.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The new stuff doesn't necessarily invalidate the old bit about the Emperor loving Horus.  It could be that the Emperor started out with the intent of using the Primarchs as just tools, then inadvertently started loving Horus like a real son.  The Emperor hesitates to kill Horus, gets maimed, finally casts out love and compassion for Horus then destroys Horus.  Afterwards the Emperor could have doubled down on his original intent of Primarchs as only tools, especially with the lesson of Horus ("I'm never going to let myself fall in love with my creations again.  Look where that got me with Horus").  That would explain his attitude towards the revived Guilliman.  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 7 Apr 2019 02:22:36]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Iracundus]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If I recall the end of the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(673);'>DI</span> Plague Wars novel correctly, Bg G is left opening a lost copy of the Book of Lorgar and ponderng what if... What f Lorgar as right and the Big E was in fact a god.<br /> <br /> This occurs after the final battle in the book where Big G witnesses the act of a Saint which he and the Custodians present interpret as the Big E taking the field through one of his Saints.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 7 Apr 2019 08:46:01]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ FrothingMuppet]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/671fe9d0259f807b869582d676101a4c.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10407762.page"><b>FrothingMuppet wrote:</b></a><br/>If I recall the end of the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(673);'>DI</span> Plague Wars novel correctly, Bg G is left opening a lost copy of the Book of Lorgar and ponderng what if... What f Lorgar as right and the Big E was in fact a god.<br /> <br /> This occurs after the final battle in the book where Big G witnesses the act of a Saint which he and the Custodians present interpret as the Big E taking the field through one of his Saints.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Correction:  The masses believe it was a saint<br /> <br /> Guilliman stated it was a strong psyker.  <br /> <br /> Guilliman's actions at the end could be interpreted as doubt however it could also be interpreted as him acknowledging he had just flatly dismissed Lorgar's claims of the Emperor's divinity without actually reading what Lorgar wrote.  So he decides to actually read it, but it could be that he finishes reading and still rejects Lorgar's original position.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 7 Apr 2019 12:29:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Iracundus]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I like the doubt and uncertainty. Guilliman is the POV character closest in mindset to most readers. His questions mirror the readers' questions. After all, don't we wantto know if the Emperor has become a god after all those millennia of worship and sacrifice?<br /> <br /> Guilliman's growth as a character is much more interesting than "4 THE&nbsp;EMPRAH!". <img src="/s/i/a/6d3c0a908a3861135dfaebde91c0ecf6.gif" border="0">]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 7 Apr 2019 13:51:02]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Karhedron]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/e9385c636ddbc1a6ba8204d9c20fbf3e.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10407908.page"><b>Karhedron wrote:</b></a><br/>I like the doubt and uncertainty. Guilliman is the POV character closest in mindset to most readers. His questions mirror the readers' questions. After all, don't we wantto know if the Emperor has become a god after all those millennia of worship and sacrifice?<br /> <br /> Guilliman's growth as a character is much more interesting than "4 THE&nbsp;EMPRAH!". <img src="/s/i/a/6d3c0a908a3861135dfaebde91c0ecf6.gif" border="0"></div></blockquote><br /> <br /> It's definitely one of the highlights of the story moving forward, its the contrast between the idealism of the 30k years having to contend with the shitstorm that <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40K</span> is in the present. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 7 Apr 2019 19:31:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Grimskul]]></author>
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				<title>Primarch believers?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/d6680594a3883cf2ed3c8e9fe61c9f6e.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/773700/10403915.page"><b>Delvarus Centurion wrote:</b></a><br/>I don't think any of the loyal Primarchs would ever see the Emperor as a god but if one did start believing that, which would become a Primarch zealot? </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> If we're talking about Pre-Heresy Primarchs, Lorgar without a doubt. After all, he's the one Primarch that got everyone in the Imperium to worship the Emperor.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 11 Apr 2019 02:51:18]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Jazzylee]]></author>
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