http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
Seriously, its really hard to see how I could even stand a chance. I mean in theory both list are 2000 points, battle forged and match play valid so if we both play well it shouldn't be a whitewash... but looking at the lists.. man I feel like I'll be lucky not to have been tabled by turn 2.

I can change small things about my list like the heavy weapons, but going out and buying new models isn't really an option at the moment. I'm really looking for advice on what tactics I should employ to at least make it to turn 3 with something left on the table.

My list:

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++ Total: [110 PL, 10CP, 1,998pts] ++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [72 PL, 8CP, 1,233pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Detachment CP [5CP]

The Path of War

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

Illic Nightspear [4 PL, 80pts]

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 56pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Shuriken Pistol & Power Glaive

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 56pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Shuriken Pistol & Power Glaive

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 58pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

+ Elites +

Fire Dragons [12 PL, 144pts]
. 6x Fire Dragon: 6x Fusion Gun

Wraithguard [11 PL, 215pts]: D-scythe, 5x Wraithguard

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [9 PL, 157pts]: Bright Lance, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Spirit Stones, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Catapult

War Walkers [12 PL, 198pts]
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 159pts]: Spirit Stones, Star Engines, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [17 PL, 1CP, 326pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Detachment CP [1CP]

The Path of War

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 127pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Banshee Mask, Craftworlds Warlord, Laser Lance, Reaper Launcher, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 132pts]: 1. Guide, 3. Fortune, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 67pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [21 PL, 1CP, 439pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Saim-Hann: Wild Host

Detachment CP [1CP]

The Path of War

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 127pts]: Banshee Mask, Reaper Launcher, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. The Novalance of Saim-Hann

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [5 PL, 104pts]
. 2x Shining Spear: 2x Laser Lance, 2x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Shining Spears [5 PL, 104pts]
. 2x Shining Spear: 2x Laser Lance, 2x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Shining Spears [5 PL, 104pts]
. 2x Shining Spear: 2x Laser Lance, 2x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

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And then my opponent.....

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++ Total: [114 PL, 15CP, 2,000pts] ++

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +6CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [67 PL, 1,243pts, 7CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [6CP]

Exalted Court [-1CP]: Exalted Court: 1 Extra Warlord Trait

Heirlooms of the Household [-1CP]: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom

Household Choice: Questor Mechanicus
. House Krast

+ Lord of War +

Knight Crusader [25 PL, 498pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom: Endless Fury, Twin Icarus Autocannon, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Krast): First Knight
. Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer
. Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber: Heavy Stubber, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon

Knight Errant [22 PL, 393pts]: Character (Exalted Court), Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword, Thermal Cannon, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark

Knight Gallant [20 PL, 352pts]: Character (Heirloom of the House), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom: Armour of the Sainted Ion, Reaper Chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [24 PL, 421pts, 3CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [5CP]

Operative Requisition Sanctioned [85pts, -2CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Catachan

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 52pts]
. 3x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Elites +

Ratlings [2 PL, 45pts]
. 5x Ratling: 5x Sniper Rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [23 PL, 336pts, 5CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [5CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Catachan

+ HQ +

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave

Tank Commander [12 PL, 170pts]: Heavy Bolter, Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

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]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10581081.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10581081.page GMT
#1 - Outside his Knights, he doesn't have much. Each Knight you kill will almost be as good as killing 30% of his army. Focus down Knights one at a time.

#2 - He only has 1 shooty Knight. The other knights aren't very shooty. That's the Knight to kill. Once down, you can take the other Knights on at your leisure. Keep the combat Knights at arm's reach and just keep backing up and jumping back.

#3 - He has to declare what each weapon on his Knight will be targeting before he shoots anything. Be sure to use Lightning Reflexes often! At -2 to hit, a model becomes very hard to kill!

#4 - Your anti-Knight stuff are the Wraithguard, supported a bit by the Fire Dragons. Together those two should be able to ground a Knight down. Whatever's left will have to work alongside psychic powers and weight of fire to take down another Knight. Those are the units you want in your transports. Keep the shields up on the Wave Serpent to help reduce the damage you will take! An Alaitoc Wave Serpent with shields up and Lightning Reflexes should be just about impossible to be taken down.

#5 - Pin his guardsmen in place! Use the Shining Spears to kill one unit that's close to another, then use your pile-ins to tri-point another unit of guardsmen that you're in combat with but that you didn't charge (so you can't accidentally kill them). That unit now can't leave combat. This can help protect you from his meanest guns, while you should be able to kill the infantry squad in combat on their combat turn.

#6 - Ask to play ITC so that the first level of the ruins blocks Line of Sight. If he can't see you, he can't shoot you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10581162.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10581162.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10581191.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10581191.page GMT
Luckily I'm ok on the LOS blocking scenery front, we didn't have much LOS blocking stuff at my local club until recently so I built four 12"x12" multi level ruins with fallen concrete blocking the first floor and have a bunch of other stuff too. I'll make sure I take it all with me






]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10581207.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10581207.page GMT
What do you think? It feels like it will be a bit more of an even fight now.

The Farseer skyrunner with the Phoenix gem is going to go on a one way trip (helped by the warlock with quicken) to punch the Assasin he's bound to bring (strongly suspect a vindicare) in the face with a metric ton of mortal wounds. the Farseer can get a 44" move with quicken which should hopefully be enough to land him right next to the assassin and he can then smite (Probably D3 mortal wounds), executioner (probably another D3 mortal wounds) and then mid war him (another 0 -> 5 mortal wounds. If he's not dead the farseer can charge in and if the vindicare kills him that's another d3 mortal wounds on a 2+ he'll have to take before the Farseer comes back alive for another round of assasin punching.

Should be fun, god I hate Vindicares...

All the psychers are going to buff the **** out of the Shining spears. In cover with lightning reflexes they'll be -3 to hit, have a 1+ armour save, 3+ invun and a 5+ FNP plus get +1 on their wound rolls in the fight phase. Combine them with a Doom and re-roll hit rolls of 1 from the Autarch, and if I have the maths right they should be able to at least completely cripple (if not out right destroy) even a knight Crusader in 1 turn with a combination of shooting and CC.

The fire dragons are going in the wave serpent and if I get the chance I'll pop them out and quicken them towards a target of opportunity. If it works they'll have a 28" threat range, should be a nasty surprise...

I'll advance the wave serpent even if he doesn't move, that'll make him -2 to hit even without lightning reflex's thanks to the vectored engines.

The two wasp assault walkers will go in for a deep strike to threaten his backfield units

The walkers with the missile launchers are going to be kept back out of LOS and I'll use them once the shining spears are fire dragons are in his face, then he'll have more than enough to worry about already rather than just popping them out, getting some shots off and having them die to return fire as they were the only viable target at the time.

The small Dire Avenger units will be used to screen\grab objectives. Being small units of 5 they should be easy to hide amongst ruins.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [55 PL, 8CP, 1,079pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Detachment CP [5CP]

The Path of War

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 132pts]: 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 56pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Shuriken Pistol & Power Glaive

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 56pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Shuriken Pistol & Power Glaive

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 58pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

+ Elites +

Fire Dragons [12 PL, 243pts]
. 9x Fire Dragon: 9x Fusion Gun
. Fire Dragon Exarch: Firepike

+ Heavy Support +

War Walkers [8 PL, 160pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

War Walkers [8 PL, 160pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 159pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Vectored Engines

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [19 PL, 1CP, 333pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment CP [1CP]

The Path of War

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 132pts]: 4. Executioner, 6. Mind War, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
. The Phoenix Gem

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 67pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 67pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 67pts]: 6. Empower/Enervate, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [32 PL, 1CP, 585pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Detachment CP [1CP]

The Path of War

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 127pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Banshee Mask, Craftworlds Warlord, Laser Lance, Reaper Launcher, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [14 PL, 308pts]
. 8x Shining Spear: 8x Laser Lance, 8x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Wasp Assault Walkers [6 PL, 75pts]
. Wasp Assault Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Wasp Assault Walkers [6 PL, 75pts]
. Wasp Assault Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

++ Total: [106 PL, 10CP, 1,997pts] ++

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]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582539.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582539.page GMT
Personally I'd keep the Starcannons on the War Walkers myself, they wound knights on 5s but you can get Doom down on them and then they're more effective than Doomed EMLs.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582575.page GMT
Great suggestion ref the star cannons, that saves me enough points to add in another warlock with protect\jinx.

That now means I can keep the shining spears protected whilst double tapping a knight with doom AND jinx.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582595.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582595.page GMT Too many knight killing units need to get into melee reach so some stand-off shooting may be a necessity.

I do like the missile launchers on the walkers for knight and grunt killing utility, expensive in points I think though (do you want to specialize between troop vs monster hunters with bright lances?).
Deep strike for taking out those mortar teams is a must, so the other walkers should perform that nicely as you planned.

Not sure what to say for the Starcannons on the other guys: overkill for guard, not quite nasty enough for knights.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582643.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582643.page GMT
Thank you for the input

I thought about brightlances on the wave serpent but I'm planning to 'advance' it every turn, even i it doesn't move. That way it'll get the -1 to hit from the vectored engine in addition to the -1 for Alaitoc making it -2 to hit over 12" even before playing lightning fast reactions (which I want to use on the shining spears as much as possible) and If I advance it then it can't shoot brightlances even with crystal targeting matrix.

I think I'm going to leave the starcannons on the walkers too, dropping back to them from missile launchers gives me enough point to include another warlock with protect\jinx. Starcannons + doom + jinx should out perform brightlances + doom on a big target especially if it has an invun, and they'll also be much better against infantry in cover. If this goes well I might make this my normal list from now on and it feels like the starcannons will just be better all round.

I think I'm also going to drop a walker and have a squad of 3 instead of 2 squads of 2, then I can fire and fade them in and out of cover without risk of them getting shot up early on.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582684.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/780714/10582684.page GMT