<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "The Emperor's Psychic Abilities"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net The Emperor's Psychic Abilities http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10590715.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10590715.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities HH book. Powerlevels of the Primarchs are similarly inconsistent. Sometimes they can fight a titan, sometimes they can be in mortal danger when threatened with bolters. It doesn't really make sense as a coherent narrative.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10590735.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10590735.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
Then to add insult, after making them all bend the knee, the Ultramarines begin to stand, putting all the Word Bearers beneath them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
There was a debate about this a while back here in the Background forum.

Also remember, that subservience is a flaw in Lorgars genesee, so I think the Word Bearers especially would be succeptive to this particular mind control. That's what makes them so zealous and disciplined. They need to serve in something faithfully. They would be the types to pull off their own heads if the Emperor asked them to.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10591577.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10591577.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
We know that this took place before the creation of the Primarchs but we don't know how long before. We know that work on the Primarchs didn't start until after Unification because the labs they were grown in were supposed to be on Luna.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10592195.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10592195.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
It's also possible that as the creations of the Emperor, space marines are more vulnerable to his psychic powers, being descended from the Primarchs, who in turn descended from him? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10593450.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10593450.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10593697.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10593697.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
BrianDavion wrote:
Have we considered the possability that the Emperor included a deliberate quirk that made the Astartes more vunerable to him?

People have mentioned this idea from time to time but there is no real evidence of it.

Since the Emperor left the Golden Throne at least twice during the Heresy, why would he not have done so at the start of the Siege and just ordered all the Heretic astartes to kneel down while the loyalists wandered about with power swords? Granted it might have cost another thousand psykers their lives but it would have pretty much broken the Siege at a stroke if he had that ability.

This suggests something changed between Monarchia and the Siege. I am inclined to think it was more mindset than a mental "backdoor".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10595918.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10595918.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
 Karhedron wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Have we considered the possability that the Emperor included a deliberate quirk that made the Astartes more vunerable to him?

People have mentioned this idea from time to time but there is no real evidence of it.

Since the Emperor left the Golden Throne at least twice during the Heresy, why would he not have done so at the start of the Siege and just ordered all the Heretic astartes to kneel down while the loyalists wandered about with power swords? Granted it might have cost another thousand psykers their lives but it would have pretty much broken the Siege at a stroke if he had that ability.

This suggests something changed between Monarchia and the Siege. I am inclined to think it was more mindset than a mental "backdoor".


Could also be the chaos gods could move to protect them, or even Horus himself could after getting pumped up on chaos juice. not saying it's a good theory but it's a theory and worth considering as a possiability. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10595927.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10595927.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
BrianDavion wrote:
 Karhedron wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Have we considered the possability that the Emperor included a deliberate quirk that made the Astartes more vunerable to him?

People have mentioned this idea from time to time but there is no real evidence of it.

Since the Emperor left the Golden Throne at least twice during the Heresy, why would he not have done so at the start of the Siege and just ordered all the Heretic astartes to kneel down while the loyalists wandered about with power swords? Granted it might have cost another thousand psykers their lives but it would have pretty much broken the Siege at a stroke if he had that ability.

This suggests something changed between Monarchia and the Siege. I am inclined to think it was more mindset than a mental "backdoor".


Could also be the chaos gods could move to protect them, or even Horus himself could after getting pumped up on chaos juice. not saying it's a good theory but it's a theory and worth considering as a possiability.


I kinda view the Emperor as Allmight (My Hero Academia ) by the climax of the Heresy at this point. It's been hinted more and more that a lot of his power was spent fixing (holding back a direct line to the warp) thanks to Magnus's massive F up. Considering the third strongest human psyker could only take that burden for a few hours, being on the throne was likely weakening him over time.

Even by the start of the siege he probably wasn't in the best of shape and that's putting aside that the Chaos Gods would have been pushing as hard as they could on both ends.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10597928.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10597928.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10597947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10597947.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
BrianDavion wrote:
well as the seige of terra series continues we'll find out

Actually, given how hard they have worked to avoid giving any real concrete insights into the Emperor's powers or POV, I am not expecting any sudden revelations. :(]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10598440.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10598440.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
The emperor's biggest display of force is without the "dawn" scene in MoM, summoning the flaming ghosts of fallen custodes Ferrus etc.

spoilers for the siege of Terra.
Spoiler:
During the second siege book the emperor's wards on Terra start of being so powerfull Magnus warns that all demons (or even demon primarchs) will be obliterated body and soul. if they try to assault the palace, so pretty powerfull ward of death.


But in general HH authors are carefull not to explains Emps too much.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10598591.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10598591.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities HH, we learn that he personally led the Great Crusade but then returned to Terra (fatefully making Horus warmaster in his stead) to focus on warp-related (psychic) matters.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10603211.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10603211.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10603249.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10603249.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
Karhedron wrote:At some point the Emperor visited the planet Molech, went through a warp gate and stole/bartered/tricked a load of power from the Chaos gods. I am not certain exactly when this is supposed to have taken place but it could have taken place in the 200-ish years between Unification and Monarchia.

We know that this took place before the creation of the Primarchs but we don't know how long before. We know that work on the Primarchs didn't start until after Unification because the labs they were grown in were supposed to be on Luna.
I thought he visited Molech well before the Unification Wars, during the Age of Strife or maybe earliers.

Darian Aarush wrote:There's little evidence the Emperor was doing anything warp-related during the Unification wars. From the HH, we learn that he personally led the Great Crusade but then returned to Terra (fatefully making Horus warmaster in his stead) to focus on warp-related (psychic) matters.
He used his powers to talk to his Custodes a lot, but we don't see him using them at any other time. I don't even think he used them against the Sorcerer-Priest in MoM, unless it was to protect his troops in some abstract way.

w1zard wrote:Even if the Emperor was as powerful during the unification wars as he was during the incident on Monarchia, he is still only 1 man and can only be in one place at a time. Assuming he instantly won every battle he showed up at, he still needed the thunder warriors as there were probably hundreds of battles raging across the entire planet constantly.
The Unification Wars lasted longer than the Great Crusade. The Emperor began his conquests in late M29 and the GC began in 800 M30, there was only a few hundred years in between the two. The Unification wars probably lasted about 500-700 years, more than enough time to conquer one planet.

Earth127 wrote:We know the emperor wants to create an imperium that doesn't rely on psykers including himself. So he probably doesn't at any point want to be a crutch his armies rely on.
I think he really wants humans to be free of falling prey to warp entities, to not empower them with superstitious belief. In MoM he seems sanguine in regards to the fact that the color grey a universal psychic phenomenon and not just the interpretation of the wavelength of photons, but is opposed to people sacrificing to warp entities to try and change the weather.

Dark Apostle 666 wrote:Well, from my memory of the book, the Word Bearers at that time were not trying to fight or resist against him, so perhaps that state of mind also contributed - they didn't like it, but they were still in the mindset of serving the Imperium at that point. Possibly the Emperor might have struggled to put the whammy on them all if they were actively hostile to him at the time.

It's also possible that as the creations of the Emperor, space marines are more vulnerable to his psychic powers, being descended from the Primarchs, who in turn descended from him?
Being descended from a primarch would, if anything, give you stronger mental will power and psychic "power." However the Emperor might have given the astartes and primarchs a kill switch type thing, that would explain why it was be so easy for him to obliterate Horus when he was losing the fight. It's an interesting alternative to people (i.e. most everyone, including myself) who say "the Emperor was just that powerful"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10606836.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10606836.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
 Psionara wrote:
While I haven't read any of the Horus Heresy series, I have come across multiple articles about him being one of many warlords in the fight for Unification of Terra, citing Malcador the Sigillite as a reference. Obviously he won with the crudely constructed Thunder Warriors and became the Emperor of Mankind, but fast forward to the Great Crusade where he, the Word Bearers, and the Ultramarines stood on Monarchia and watched it being razed to the ground to censure Lorgar and his Word Bearer's Legion. After those events, the Emperor psychically forced Lorgar and his Word Bearers to kneel before him. From what I've read, that would have been 100,000+ Space Marines. Space Marines are more refined, bear more implants that make them a more functional solider than the Thunder Warriors. Thunder Warriors, just from the fact that they helped win the war, must have been stronger than the other warlord's soliders. So, when facing up against these warlords of Terra and their armies, why couldn't he have just done the same? Did the Emperor have the same psychic abilities on Terra in the Unification Wars as he did on Monarchia? Did his psychic abilities grow over time or did he always have them? Did these other warlords have similar abilities that could essentially null the effects of whatever the Emperor cast?



Perception.

In Last Heretic, at Monarchia, He enforced his rule over his loyal subjects, his son and grandsons, punishing them for disobediance.

During the unification wars he needed to unite warring factions. Forcing them to bend the knee only opens himself to backstabbing later on when they get their chance to rebel against his tyrannical rule. But if he can win the war, with his superior soldiers and give them all a leader to follow willingly, and as a better option to living in warzone Terra, they wouldn't. In other words, he had to get all the warring tribes to follow him out of respect and mutual appreciation of a singular goal, rather than out of fear or psychically forced.

As a being who lived throughout history, he will have already known that most who try to unite humanity through conquering are doomed to fail, because regardless of how good or noble their ideas and intentions may be, humans simply don't want to be conquered. Napoleon, Hitler, the Romans, Genghis Khan, the British Empire, America in the middle east - no matter how you frame it, foreign soldiers and force used to solicit cooperation is doomed to fail. But cooperation given willingly in pursuit of a mutual greater good - that lasts millennia.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10607159.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10607159.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities GC. He followed completely different conquest strategies for the UW and GC.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10608028.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10608028.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
 Eipi10 wrote:
That almost makes you wonder if the Emperor intentionally drove humanity and his sons to revolt with the GC. He followed completely different conquest strategies for the UW and GC.


There's an audio drama about Malcador where he says that was indeed the case. however he was comforting a dying woman and noted that not everything he said was the truth after she passed ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10608078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10608078.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10608861.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10608861.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10617965.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10617965.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10619070.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10619070.page GMT Re:The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
I do remember reading something about how due to his powering the astronimicon remotely was causing him to weaken (hence needing to be saved from a piddly Warboss by Horus) which was one reason for him to go back to Terra to complete the webway project, so he wouldn't need to do that anymore.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10619304.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10619304.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
 Eipi10 wrote:
Karhedron wrote:At some point the Emperor visited the planet Molech, went through a warp gate and stole/bartered/tricked a load of power from the Chaos gods. I am not certain exactly when this is supposed to have taken place but it could have taken place in the 200-ish years between Unification and Monarchia.

We know that this took place before the creation of the Primarchs but we don't know how long before. We know that work on the Primarchs didn't start until after Unification because the labs they were grown in were supposed to be on Luna.
I thought he visited Molech well before the Unification Wars, during the Age of Strife or maybe earliers.

The date of the Emperor's first visit to Molech is not stated anywhere as far as I recall. But Alivia Sureka notes that he arrived in a space ship but didn't need one when he left. Warp Travel was very difficult (although not impossible) during the Age of Strife due to warp storms. Lexicanum states that the Emperor first visited Molech during the DAOT but I can't remember anything in the books to confirm or deny this.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10619621.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10619621.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10619896.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10619896.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
 Psionara wrote:
While I haven't read any of the Horus Heresy series, I have come across multiple articles about him being one of many warlords in the fight for Unification of Terra, citing Malcador the Sigillite as a reference. Obviously he won with the crudely constructed Thunder Warriors and became the Emperor of Mankind, but fast forward to the Great Crusade where he, the Word Bearers, and the Ultramarines stood on Monarchia and watched it being razed to the ground to censure Lorgar and his Word Bearer's Legion. After those events, the Emperor psychically forced Lorgar and his Word Bearers to kneel before him. From what I've read, that would have been 100,000+ Space Marines. Space Marines are more refined, bear more implants that make them a more functional solider than the Thunder Warriors. Thunder Warriors, just from the fact that they helped win the war, must have been stronger than the other warlord's soliders. So, when facing up against these warlords of Terra and their armies, why couldn't he have just done the same? Did the Emperor have the same psychic abilities on Terra in the Unification Wars as he did on Monarchia? Did his psychic abilities grow over time or did he always have them? Did these other warlords have similar abilities that could essentially null the effects of whatever the Emperor cast?


This one seems fairly simple to me.

The Word Bearers, at this stage, revere the Emperor as a God. When your God psychically commands you to kneel, you probably do it. The 17th would probably have knelt if he'd just said it out loud. There's a particular established relationship here that seems quite important. They are already mentally, emotionally, and psychologically subservient to him in a way that probably doesn't apply to any other legion.

When some upstart warlord with gold armour and a bunch of thunder warriors turns up at your border and does the same, it probably doesn't have the same power over you. You'll still defy him. And lose, but the lore has a few examples of defeated terran warlords conversing with the Emperor in the moment of defeat, and giving him plenty of lip and defiance. See also John Grammaticus' meeting with him and The Last Church. The Emperor's Glamour / Charisma doesn't work on everyone.

That a god would wield the most power over those who revere and worship him the most seems relatively logical, by the standards of 40k, that he has less power over those who reject him also follows.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10620243.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10620243.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
nareik wrote:
How does his power interact with the sisters of silence?

The Sisters themselves are unaffected by his powers. For example, they see through his glamour to the tall but plain man underneath.

More importantly, they all understand that it is vital to keep away from the Emperor while he is on the Golden Throne. It is not clear if they shut him down completely or simply make it harder for his powers to work.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10620567.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10620567.page GMT The Emperor's Psychic Abilities
 Karhedron wrote:
At some point the Emperor visited the planet Molech, went through a warp gate and stole/bartered/tricked a load of power from the Chaos gods. I am not certain exactly when this is supposed to have taken place but it could have taken place in the 200-ish years between Unification and Monarchia.

We know that this took place before the creation of the Primarchs but we don't know how long before. We know that work on the Primarchs didn't start until after Unification because the labs they were grown in were supposed to be on Luna.


In the later books doesn't Horus and a few of the other early Primarchs that accompanied the Emperor to Moloch start to recall the events that happened there? IIRC Horus is angered by the fact that the Emperor suppressed these memories in those Primarchs, before Horus makes the decision to enter the warp gate.

As to the Unification Wars, wasn't Terra still blanketed by a warp storm at that point? If so I could see why the Emperor wouldn't be blatantly using his power.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10620974.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/781069/10620974.page GMT