<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? STC technology is concerned tech heresy. What about enemy vehicles (of non Xenos origin) that are captured or could be salvaged on the battlefield? Would an IG regiment be in trouble if they (only from a fluff perspective, not ruleswise) captured say a Goliath Truck, Achilles Ridgerunner or a non-standard tank produced by a human Mini-Empire and kept using it?

On a similar note: if the IG faces a Renegade and Heretek force using Renegade produced IG material like Leman Russes and Chimeras and those are captured, are they used immediatly? Or is there some kind of "machine baptism" to purify them? Or ar those Machines, that were not produced under the blessing of the Omnissiah (even if an STC was used) considered unholy and are destroyed?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642075.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642075.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
The returned Roboute Guilliman ordered the AdMech to stop salvaging Chaos warships, as it was more trouble than it was worth.

AFAIK the Mining Guild vehicles are STC approved (or the AdMech would wipe the Guild out).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642123.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642123.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642166.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642166.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
If it's a renegade form Imperial Ship (as in Luna class etc) then it can be fairly safely reconsecrated.

If it's an actual Chaos Ship (Murder class etc) I believe they just smash them up and destroy them utterly. Not only are the heavily corrupted, but many were problematic to being with.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642225.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642225.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? BFG background has reserve fleets of the Imperium still with ships of those old classes mothballed. Often these old ship classes were superior in some fashion to the "modern" Imperial ships so the Mechanicus was keen to salvage them. The problem is some classes seem to have had flaws in their design that over time tends to corrupt the crew. To avoid this risk, Guilliman prohibited the Mechanicus from salvaging former Chaos ships, knowing that otherwise the temptation to recover older better technology might be too strong.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642230.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642230.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642236.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642236.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
Pyroalchi wrote:
My question was more focussed on land vehicles. So Tanks, trucks, etc.


It will depend entirely on the unit doing the capturing. Marines digging up a Heresy era Spartan and hotwiring it to spearhead an armored assault are going to be treated far differently from a PDF or Guard regiment cracking open a weapons cache belonging to a Chaos cult and doing donuts in the parking lot.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642296.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642296.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
Sterling191 wrote:
Pyroalchi wrote:
My question was more focussed on land vehicles. So Tanks, trucks, etc.


It will depend entirely on the unit doing the capturing. Marines digging up a Heresy era Spartan and hotwiring it to spearhead an armored assault are going to be treated far differently from a PDF or Guard regiment cracking open a weapons cache belonging to a Chaos cult and doing donuts in the parking lot.


Aye, further there are just some designs that have issues with their machine spirits aswell, think kahbrys and dreadclaw droppod variants.

The malcado was also suffering from this supposedly.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642311.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10642311.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
Sterling191 wrote:
Pyroalchi wrote:
My question was more focussed on land vehicles. So Tanks, trucks, etc.


It will depend entirely on the unit doing the capturing. Marines digging up a Heresy era Spartan and hotwiring it to spearhead an armored assault are going to be treated far differently from a PDF or Guard regiment cracking open a weapons cache belonging to a Chaos cult and doing donuts in the parking lot.


Now that's a black library book I want to read.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10643134.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10643134.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? GSC equipment would probably be usable.

Ork equipment may or may not function properly. None of that "It works Cruz they fink it does" nonsense, but typically theyre junk is unreliable at best of times. I seem to recall Shootaz and Sluggaz jamming up often in one of the Deathwatch RPGs.

Ork Lootaz have jacked Tau tech, so that should be usable by Imperials.

I always assumed Eldar/Dark eldar weapons were fired psyonically, and didnt even have trigger mechanisms, but in a few novels I've read characters picking up and using Shuriken weaponry so I suppose they can be Looted.

Necron weaponry should Phase out, but I'm sure theres some plot hole that one can use to maybe hold onto them. I'm sure the Mechanicum has been trying to reverse engineer their tech for some time.

Then theres Chaos equipment which would be pretty off limits. I'd say that given time, even a lowly cultists las pistol you pick up might start talking you into killing your commander.

And I see I misread the OP, but basically same principle. Tau vehicles might be more difficult to pilot, buy they donuse human auxiliaries right?

I dont think one would be able to pilot an Eldar vehicle. Maybe the guns, butbthe vehicle itself probably needs a neural interface.

I'd say no on the Necrons. At best ykud have the Independence Day crashed Croissant in their area 51 base.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645205.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645205.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? STC found by the Black Templars- and they simply skipped over the Cogboys and just started using it. Apparently, it was effective and didn't go bananas so the Admech was like, "PRAISE THE OMNISSIAH!" and just kind of let it slide. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645207.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645207.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645285.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645285.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
Also: how about still functioning tanks of conquered human worlds, that are not STC derived?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645309.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645309.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645316.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645316.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
If it was a vehicle used by Chaos followers, I think there might be a problem, as it is probably corrupted in some way.

AdMech might be a bit more strict in this way, as they will unlikely use or maintain any non-STC designs unless it's absolutely necessary for the mission.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645406.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645406.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
 Hawky wrote:
I think it would be ok most of the time. If Guardsmen find some non-standard or locally produced vehicles, they won't get shot for salvaging or reclaiming them. They will probably piss off some Tech-Priests who will then perhaps refuse to maintain it, but that's all.

If it was a vehicle used by Chaos followers, I think there might be a problem, as it is probably corrupted in some way.

AdMech might be a bit more strict in this way, as they will unlikely use or maintain any non-STC designs unless it's absolutely necessary for the mission.

What would be "non-STC" though? Almost every bit of human tech is based on what remains of the STC system. How can the Mechanicus tell if something is a heretek creation from some mad scientist or if it's STC stuff that they just didn't know about before?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645427.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645427.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the Land Raider Crusader was an STC found by the Black Templars- and they simply skipped over the Cogboys and just started using it.
Weapon swaps are something the admech are less fussed about - mounting standard imperial weapon x on standard imperial platform y is fairly low on the tech heresy list, not anything seriously bad like invention or innovation, and if the templars had a picture of it having been done in the past then it's probably all kosher and the mechanicus won't have too much to grumble about beyond the lack of a few hundred years of debate over its use.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645454.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645454.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? STC I mean something in the line of planets that had lost contact with the Imperium and are brought back into the fold who in the meantime diverted from the Empires reluctance of Innovation and developed new vehicles. From something basic like a truck to APCs or aircrafts etc.
To give some example, imagine our current earth being conquered and the imperial guardsmen capturing a bunch of T-90, Leopard 2s and Abrams. Ist definitly no STC tech, since they have been developed more or less from scratch.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645462.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645462.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
Pyroalchi wrote:
With Non-STC I mean something in the line of planets that had lost contact with the Imperium and are brought back into the fold who in the meantime diverted from the Empires reluctance of Innovation and developed new vehicles. From something basic like a truck to APCs or aircrafts etc.
To give some example, imagine our current earth being conquered and the imperial guardsmen capturing a bunch of T-90, Leopard 2s and Abrams. Ist definitly no STC tech, since they have been developed more or less from scratch.

The "low" level of scientific knowledge is not really the Imperium's doing, it's the result of everything getting ruined during the Age of Strife, especially the whole problem with AI turning murderous all of a sudden. So pockets of humanity somehow retaining a level of technology high enough to make something the Mechanicus has never seen would be very rare.

But anyways, remember that according to the cult mechanicus, all machines are sacred and the creation of the Machine God. Assuming some unknown tech is discovered, the Adeptus Mechanicus would definitely study it before making any decision. If they couldn't find anything heretek inside (like AI), I suppose the techpriests would eventually allow it to be used, like so many other pieces of tech they don't fully understand.

Also, that would depend on who these hypothetical techpriests are and how orthodox they are. The xenarites are willing to study xeno tech, so they wouldn't bat an eye at something humans made. Other techpriests may take the "no innovation" so far that they would consider anything that's not officially approved by the cult as inherently heretek.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645566.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645566.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
 Tiennos wrote:
But anyways, remember that according to the cult mechanicus, all machines are sacred and the creation of the Machine God.
My understanding was more that they believe everything that humanity would ever need in terms of technology had already been created by their predecessors, and so all that remains is to rediscover it.
Effectively 'this book contains all the truth you will ever need, and everything else is the work of the devil'

Unidentified human technology might be boxed in the vaults of mars until it could be matched to gospel, but if it's clearly original thought from a civilization knocked back to the stone age and built back up then it is tech heresy, and the admech might well burn the world to erase every scrap of it from existence along with its creators.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645605.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645605.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? DKoK (Imperial Armor 6 if I remember correctly)

I also seem to remember stories of SM chapters doing the same with renegade SM equipment, as long as it has not been badly corrupted.


*edit* Imperial Armour Vol 7, pg 20 in reference to a captured Minotaur "After purification, it was returned to service with one of the regiments artillery companies" So IG will salvage and use captured equipment.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645893.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10645893.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
Pyroalchi wrote:
I'm have quite limited knowledge about the Adeptus Mechanicus and their cult and therefore have a question. As far as I understand innovation and "unauthorized" modification of STC technology is concerned tech heresy. What about enemy vehicles (of non Xenos origin) that are captured or could be salvaged on the battlefield? Would an IG regiment be in trouble if they (only from a fluff perspective, not ruleswise) captured say a Goliath Truck, Achilles Ridgerunner or a non-standard tank produced by a human Mini-Empire and kept using it?

On a similar note: if the IG faces a Renegade and Heretek force using Renegade produced IG material like Leman Russes and Chimeras and those are captured, are they used immediatly? Or is there some kind of "machine baptism" to purify them? Or ar those Machines, that were not produced under the blessing of the Omnissiah (even if an STC was used) considered unholy and are destroyed?




The Mechanicus is a bit flip-floppy on the issues of "innovation" or tech heresy. Many of the main variants of Imperial Guard and Space Marine armored vehicles were originally field modifications. Because they worked so well, they made excuses as to why they were put into production.


Not all technology and industries are concentrated on Forge Worlds, nor are they exclusive to the Adeptus Mechanicus. And not everything is derived from STC canon. Manufacturing is part of the economy of many hive worlds and civilized worlds,. There is also a class of worlds known as "Industrial Worlds" that are not full-fledged Forge Worlds or under the control of the Priesthood of Mars. There have been plenty of examples in lore of non-STC equipment and products used on the local level in the Imperium of Man. Their use isn't common in the Guard because of logistical reasons, and the Mechanicus simply considers non-STC items to be inferior to those that adhere to STC canon.

There have been past examples of re-captured equipment being purified and reconsecrated, and returned to service. Especially valuable items like Baneblades or Land Raiders. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10653125.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10653125.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
Racerguy180 wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
Pyroalchi wrote:
My question was more focussed on land vehicles. So Tanks, trucks, etc.


It will depend entirely on the unit doing the capturing. Marines digging up a Heresy era Spartan and hotwiring it to spearhead an armored assault are going to be treated far differently from a PDF or Guard regiment cracking open a weapons cache belonging to a Chaos cult and doing donuts in the parking lot.


Now that's a black library book I want to read.


There's Leman Russ racing in one of the Tallarn books IIRC.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10653128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10653128.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Ork equipment may or may not function properly. None of that "It works Cruz they fink it does" nonsense, but typically theyre junk is unreliable at best of times. I seem to recall Shootaz and Sluggaz jamming up often in one of the Deathwatch RPGs.

Necron weaponry should Phase out, but I'm sure theres some plot hole that one can use to maybe hold onto them. I'm sure the Mechanicum has been trying to reverse engineer their tech for some time.

Actually one of the Cain books is about remains of Imperial army trying to fight back by looting ork gear to bolster their exhausted supply, and Commissar sees no problem with it, might be okay. For the duration of war at least.

As for the Necrons, Deathwatch uses Necron swords. Don't ask me how they got them though.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the Land Raider Crusader was an STC found by the Black Templars

It was heavily implied it was ""totally found guv, no heresy there, no sirree""

Pyroalchi wrote:
To give some example, imagine our current earth being conquered and the imperial guardsmen capturing a bunch of T-90, Leopard 2s and Abrams. Ist definitly no STC tech, since they have been developed more or less from scratch.

Funnily enough one Regimental Standard shows a bunch of XX century tanks and claims they are STC ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10653231.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10653231.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
Civilian vehicles like Goliaths or Ridgerunners might have some small adoption, but would also probably be relegated to PDF use. While a Goliath might be ubiquitous on an industrialized human world, a Guard force on a world without pre-existing Imperial industry would probably run out of parts too quickly to make them worthwhile. (This supposed that the Goliath, or a vehicle largely similar, isn't commonly used as an IG supply truck. There may be legit supply reasons to just use Chimera-based chassis for all logistical purposes, for maximum mechanical and tactical interchangeability.)

Any given IG regiment is likely to find itself dependant on supplies brought from offworld via voidships. So maximum efficiency in the organization and equipment area is a primary concern.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10656367.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10656367.page GMT Re:Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
I was working on the background of my IG regiment, which will likely include a broad variety of vehicles (because there are various models I like). I had the idea that as they are chronicly underequipped with "real" Guard vehicles and therefore upon arriving in a battlezone try to capture/salvage vehicles from the enemy or convert civilian vehicles and use them until they are broken. So no neccessity to fly them off world or keep in mind the need for spare parts. The general spirit would be "a sub par tank that will break down beyond repair next week is better than no tank at all".

I was just curious if that behavior would get you into problems with the Cogpriests. But as far as I gathered from your responses: if there specific Enginseer has a relaxed view on the whole issue and you keep your hands from any chaos tainted stuff, that should fit with the WH40k lore?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10656389.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10656389.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus? IG forces in the lore, like the Savlar Chem-dogs.

It might be that either their regiment or their homeworld has some political animosity from the Adeptus Mechanicus, which would explain their short-handedness in vehicle resupply, an the lack of cogboys in the field with them to complain about their methods.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10656754.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10656754.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
If your unit makes extensive use of psychers and priests, or sorcerers(space wolves get away with it so your regiment might if they dress it up right but lets not open that can of worms) under the watchful eye of the closest Commissar maybe able to reconsecrate things, banish taint or even just detect untainted equipment to use.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I seriously don't think that every single bullet a cultist carries is tainted, but perhaps the weapon itself is. Perhaps some items are more likely to be tainted, such as personal effects, chaos marked items or anything cult related.

Perhaps there is a 'knack' to knowing what to take and what not to so that at a squad level your troops will instinctively be able to pick what they need.

I think this would fit your army particularly well, the N'go are peoples who maintain traditions from when their planet wasn controlled by chaos worshippers. Could fit really well with your lore, I can see them fighting and taking what they need to survive against their overlords.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10657947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10657947.page GMT Are salvaged/captured vehicles tolerated by the cult mechanicus?
 Nightlord1987 wrote:

I always assumed Eldar/Dark eldar weapons were fired psyonically, and didnt even have trigger mechanisms, but in a few novels I've read characters picking up and using Shuriken weaponry so I suppose they can be Looted.

Craftworlder (and Harlie, Corsair, Exodite, and possible Crone) tech often have psychic interfaces, but Dark Eldar tech cannot. The Dark Eldar had to reinvent their tech from scratch after the fall, because they refuse to risk using the Warp in the Dark City. It's basically the only one thing actually prohibited in the Dark City. It's why their equipment shares overall design with their Craftworld kin, but is made out of very different materials.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10658578.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/782824/10658578.page GMT