Latest posts for the thread "Help starting GSC - my lock down project"

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

BennoPaints — GMT

Hey eveyone,

I have been interested in 40k for a long time but never managed to get a force put together and painted to actually play - so I figured what better time than now when i'm WFH and in lock down?

I have a GSC codex and some Neophyte Hybrids laying around that I bought ages ago because I love the models and I feel like their gritty nature might make up for any lack of painting skill I might have.

I found a beginner list here courtesy of a user called the_scotsman (thanks). However, a look on Battlescribe tells me that this no longer fits within 750 points.

So I guess my questions are:
1) Is this still a decent list for learning to play GSC? If so, how would you make it fit 500 or 750 point brackets? If not what would you suggest?
2) Are these still good ways to equip my units when I start building towards bigger point games? (or am I going to end up buying loads more boxes of troops just to build different special weapons etc?)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GSC Battalion (cult of the four-armed emperor to get you into combat)

HQ: Patriarch
HQ: Magus
HQ: Primus

Troop: Neophytes, Heavy Stubber and Webber
Troop: Acolytes, 2 Rock Saws
Troop: Acolytes: 1 Rock Drill

Elites: Abberants, 2 picks, 2 hammers, improvised weapon on Hypermorph

Elites: Kelermorph
Elites: Biophagus

Fast: Atalan Jackals, Wolfquad with incinerator and shotgun, 3 jackals with shotguns and cult knives, leader with hammer and shotgun.

750 points (now 791 points I think?)

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Drakeslayer — GMT

Hi BennoPaints, and welcome to the cult!

For a starting list you've got too many characters - GSC require a lot of bodies because your rate of attrition against most armies will be the wrong side of hilarious.
I'd recommend trying to find a way to cheaply source a whole bunch of neophytes - try eBay for Dark Vengeance Chaos Cultists, which are relatively easy to convert to the way of the Four Armed Emperor. You could also do with some more acolytes - a slightly pricier prospect, but necessary to get the army to deliver the hurt at a respectable points level.

You'll also need some more acolytes - at that point level I think aberrants are too pricey, so I'd put those on the back-burner for the moment - same with the kelermorph and the biophagus - they're good in larger games where you have points to spare, but at 750 you really need as many bodies as you can get.

As for unit loadouts, I can't comment on the jackals because I don't have any, but the rock saws are solid on the acolytes - drills can do some work too - there's not really a wrong choice here, but saws generally edge ahead in terms of reliability.
For your neophytes, unless you're running Bladed Cog and going for mining laser spam, they're really only there to camp on objectives and flood the board - keep em cheap and cheerful - stubbers and webbers are fine for this purpose.

Hope all this helps - would love to see photos of your project as it progresses!

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Lammia — GMT

Speaking as someone who has only played against GSC occasionally, the first two models I'd drop are the biophagus and the Patriarch.

Abberants are good, but need to trade well and Jackals are very mediocre without their detonation packs to level a tank in my experience.

Webbers aren't great, but they're probably cheap enough. All in all, it's a pretty workable list at that point level. Most people aren't going to have something better optimized.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Kelermorph is amazing at that point level

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Nitro Zeus — GMT

Patriarch is the best unit in the dex. Always take one.

Lammia is right that Kelermorph is great at lower point games. Definitely include.

Abberants and biophagus aren't very good at all really.

The rest is fine, you may find you need more bodies over a Primus though but he's a good addition somewhere along the line.

Get more basic troops. Brood Brothers and Neophytes and GSC's lifeblood.

Re:Help starting GSC - my lock down project

ccs — GMT

Why is it important to be at 750 pts?

Unless I were under some restriction, if I were building a list I'd just make it 1k pts & learn from there.

Re:Help starting GSC - my lock down project

PenitentJake — GMT

Howdy, I'm the resident crazy guy who plays 40k like a story; my approach doesn't suit a lot of players, and you sound like you're more interested in a more typical type of game. But if you're up for some fun and weirdness, here's another way to play GSC.

Start with a small force of purestrains- say 3 squads?
But every game you play, recruitment and breeding rules are in play. Here's how that works.

It makes the most sense if you fight mostly human armies because the models we have are based on human hybridization. Every human you kill is infected, while Every Genestealer they kill merely goes out of action, only to get back up after the battle and return to the cult.

The stealer that kills the most becomes your patriarch in the next battle and your new brood brothers can either fight with you, or sit out in order to grow the cult. For every brood brother that sits out, you get a neophyte in the following game. Note that it is possible for a single brood brother beget a neophyte because the humans that brood brothers breed with don't have to be cult members.

To get an acolyte though, two neophytes have to sit out. If two acolytes sit out, they create a third generation hybrid. This generation is special; the first born will always become the Magus of the Cult; the others can be represented by either Jakals or the guard + upgrade sprue. But the most special thing about this generation is that when two of them sit out, they produce a second cycle purestrain.

All of the first cycle models continue to breed according to the same rules, even though the second cycle has begun. They breed according to slightly different rules.

In the second cycle, brood brothers have a chance to produce aberrants instead of neophytes. Aberrants are sterile, but if a patriarch and an aberrant sit out together, the aberrant becomes an abominant. Each cycle can have only one abominant, but the can be bread in subsequent cycles.

The third generation hybrids of this cycle breed slightly differently as well, Because a cult can only have one Magus, the first born can be any of the other GSC characters. Also, if the Magus sits out with a second cycle hybrid of the third generation, their offspring can be a character. And of course, two hybrids of this generation that sit out produce a third cycle purestrain.

The third, and all subsequent cycles breed exactly like the second second cycle, except brood brothers can produce metamorphs in addition to neophytes or aberrants.

I haven't actually done this yet, but I've been planning the campaign for more than a year now. It's weird, and it doesn't work for a lot of people because they want their dream army right away rather than fighting tooth and nail to grow it from nothing in skirmish style battle. If you want to play a genestealer cult army, you can just build one, but if you want to live the genestealer experience, this is how to get it.

Re:Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Nitro Zeus — GMT

PenitentJake wrote:
Howdy, I'm the resident crazy guy who plays 40k like a story; my approach doesn't suit a lot of players, and you sound like you're more interested in a more typical type of game. But if you're up for some fun and weirdness, here's another way to play GSC.

Start with a small force of purestrains- say 3 squads?
But every game you play, recruitment and breeding rules are in play. Here's how that works.

It makes the most sense if you fight mostly human armies because the models we have are based on human hybridization. Every human you kill is infected, while Every Genestealer they kill merely goes out of action, only to get back up after the battle and return to the cult.

The stealer that kills the most becomes your patriarch in the next battle and your new brood brothers can either fight with you, or sit out in order to grow the cult. For every brood brother that sits out, you get a neophyte in the following game. Note that it is possible for a single brood brother beget a neophyte because the humans that brood brothers breed with don't have to be cult members.

To get an acolyte though, two neophytes have to sit out. If two acolytes sit out, they create a third generation hybrid. This generation is special; the first born will always become the Magus of the Cult; the others can be represented by either Jakals or the guard + upgrade sprue. But the most special thing about this generation is that when two of them sit out, they produce a second cycle purestrain.

All of the first cycle models continue to breed according to the same rules, even though the second cycle has begun. They breed according to slightly different rules.

In the second cycle, brood brothers have a chance to produce aberrants instead of neophytes. Aberrants are sterile, but if a patriarch and an aberrant sit out together, the aberrant becomes an abominant. Each cycle can have only one abominant, but the can be bread in subsequent cycles.

The third generation hybrids of this cycle breed slightly differently as well, Because a cult can only have one Magus, the first born can be any of the other GSC characters. Also, if the Magus sits out with a second cycle hybrid of the third generation, their offspring can be a character. And of course, two hybrids of this generation that sit out produce a third cycle purestrain.

The third, and all subsequent cycles breed exactly like the second second cycle, except brood brothers can produce metamorphs in addition to neophytes or aberrants.

I haven't actually done this yet, but I've been planning the campaign for more than a year now. It's weird, and it doesn't work for a lot of people because they want their dream army right away rather than fighting tooth and nail to grow it from nothing in skirmish style battle. If you want to play a genestealer cult army, you can just build one, but if you want to live the genestealer experience, this is how to get it.

People like you are fun <3

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

BennoPaints — GMT

Wow thanks for all the replies guys - you are awesome!

The narrative route sounds fun but maybe not the best way for a newbie to learn the game?

So I've had a think and taken your feedback on board. I have had a go at making a 500pt (since I've heard it's a good level to learn the game) list of my own rather than just copying a list from the internet.

More boots on the ground, less characters, lost the Abberants. Still need to trim 40pts (which could be done easily by losing the Jackals but they're such gorgeous models). I've kept the Kelermorph as you guys said he was awesome at a low point level. What do you think?

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [31 PL, 540pts] ++

+ HQ +

Magus [4 PL, 80pts]

Patriarch [7 PL, 125pts]

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 55pts]
. 2x Acolyte Hybrid: 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Cultist Knife, 2x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 55pts]
. 2x Acolyte Hybrid: 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Cultist Knife, 2x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 53pts]
. 7x Neophyte Hybrid: 7x Autogun, 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges
. Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 53pts]
. 7x Neophyte Hybrid: 7x Autogun, 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges
. Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Kelermorph [3 PL, 75pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Atalan Jackals [3 PL, 44pts]
. Atalan Jackal: Cultist Knife, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Cultist Knife, Shotgun
. Atalan Jackal: Cultist Knife, Shotgun
. Atalan Leader: Power Hammer, Shotgun

++ Total: [31 PL, 540pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Painting 30 troops for a 500pt list... it was at this point he realised, he should have chosen Custodes haha

Re:Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Saturmorn Carvilli — GMT

Full disclosure, I am bad with GSC. I am space marine player (both spikey and not spikey) so they work very different to how usually play, and I am still wrapping my head around them. I also mostly play other marines so I am probably overly focused on battling MEQs and other marine units.

Neophytes: It is a tough call as for small point games the Heavy Stubber might suit you better, but I think in the long run you will want Mining Lasers. I would also consider the Grenade Launcher over the Webber as it is both more flexible but really you might find yourself lacking many high Strength weapons outside of melee. The other thing to think about is while Neophytes look more like the rest of the faction, they are often nowhere as efficient as Brood Brothers sadly. Unless you use Neophytes for things Brood Brothers can't do.

Acolytes: I am a concerned about MSU of Acolytes. They have to get into melee and that is a lot of Charge rolls and potentially a decent amount of Overwatch to cripple them before they get there. Any MEQ weapon on Overwatch has a good chance of killing an Acolyte if they roll a 6 to hit. So between failed charges (which you might as well write off that squad) and spikes in Overwatch you might only be delivering the Rock Saws and the Leader into melee. In general, I have found there is almost no such thing as too many Acolytes. The issue being the models cost a bit of money for only five.

Atalan Jackals: They have to get with in half range to even kinda scare MEQ. Even then they really won't. At the same time, you are probably looking to have bikers as in your bigger army as a player. So I understand wanting to have a squad here and build onto later. I would still consider building them for use as a demo charge bomb. Not as good as it used to be with the points increase, but still can really hurt one big thing really well.

HQ: If you get the Broodcoven box I totally understand taking the Magus starting out. I could even see changing out the Kellermorph for the Primus as the Primus is a bit stronger in low point games potentially as your opponent might be fielding less units overall getting more use out of Planning than a 2000 point game. Also, you can make use of the Broodcoven stratagem. The Kellermorph isn't bad though. At the same time, I also like the Clamavus to help make charges. At 500 points, I wouldn't have more than 3 special characters though, so you do have to pick what you want your GSC to do based on them.

Finally, your Cult Creed does make a difference into how your army will function as each Creed has a signature unit to some extent. That would also help focus your army a bit better.

Re:Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Strat_N8 — GMT

If you are just starting out I'd probably look towards 2-3 of the Start Collecting boxes as the basis of a reasonable list. That gives you a 10-15 strong Acolyte bomb, a squad of Ridgerunners for fire support, and some Neophytes to grab objectives and pick on screens. The most difficult part is that most of the weapons that make the troop units effective are 1-per box so starting out your options are not going to be as optimal as those available to someone that has been collecting for awhile.

I would not recommend including the elite characters until at least 1000-1500 points. You have to give up too many bodies to include them which limits their effectiveness somewhat given most are designed to buff other units. I'm a bit hesitant about bringing a Patriarch at under 1000 points for similar reasons, but depending on creed you could make it work. Speaking of creeds, if you are just starting out I would seriously consider taking Bladed Cog instead of the Four-Armed Emperor. The Four-Armed Emperor creed is a useful one with a powerful toolbox, but the amount of your army that will benefit from it is rather small and most of its tricks are limited to once-per-game. Bladed Cog in contrast has something to offer almost every unit all game.

Also as an aside, I personally like Atlan Jackals in larger units for screening and harassment. They are one of the most durable units in the army for their points and are good for board control.

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

The other thing to think about is while Neophytes look more like the rest of the faction, they are often nowhere as efficient as Brood Brothers sadly. Unless you use Neophytes for things Brood Brothers can't do.

Just to expand on this a bit, Brood Brothers are a better option if you only need warm bodies for objectives and screening or if your creed ability is oriented towards melee support. Neophytes do better if your army build is including force multipliers that they can benefit from (Alphus, Kelermorph, Primus) and/or is using a creed ability that has more universal applications (or leans towards shooting).

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

the_scotsman — GMT

BennoPaints wrote:
Hey eveyone,

I have been interested in 40k for a long time but never managed to get a force put together and painted to actually play - so I figured what better time than now when i'm WFH and in lock down?

I have a GSC codex and some Neophyte Hybrids laying around that I bought ages ago because I love the models and I feel like their gritty nature might make up for any lack of painting skill I might have.

I found a beginner list here courtesy of a user called the_scotsman (thanks). However, a look on Battlescribe tells me that this no longer fits within 750 points.

So I guess my questions are:
1) Is this still a decent list for learning to play GSC? If so, how would you make it fit 500 or 750 point brackets? If not what would you suggest?
2) Are these still good ways to equip my units when I start building towards bigger point games? (or am I going to end up buying loads more boxes of troops just to build different special weapons etc?)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GSC Battalion (cult of the four-armed emperor to get you into combat)

HQ: Patriarch
HQ: Magus
HQ: Primus

Troop: Neophytes, Heavy Stubber and Webber
Troop: Acolytes, 2 Rock Saws
Troop: Acolytes: 1 Rock Drill

Elites: Abberants, 2 picks, 2 hammers, improvised weapon on Hypermorph

Elites: Kelermorph
Elites: Biophagus

Fast: Atalan Jackals, Wolfquad with incinerator and shotgun, 3 jackals with shotguns and cult knives, leader with hammer and shotgun.

750 points (now 791 points I think?)

Hey, it's me! Glad you found my starter list, no idea how up to date it is.

So, there's one thing I think you need here and it's more bodies to soak up fire early on and I would change out a couple characters. Generally, IMO, the biophagus is not worthwhile, I would change him out for a Clamavus, whose aura is super helpful for getting into combat.

The aberrants after their recent nerf are also EXTREMELY expensive. They made the improvised weapon something ridiculous like 35pts, which is just ridiculous. You're going extremely heavy on the deep strike (to the point where I think you have to worry about having half your units/points in reserve).

I think if you swap the biophagus for a clamavus and swap one aco squad for a second neophyte squad you're good here.

Re:Help starting GSC - my lock down project

BennoPaints — GMT

Strat_N8 wrote:
If you are just starting out I'd probably look towards 2-3 of the Start Collecting boxes as the basis of a reasonable list. That gives you a 10-15 strong Acolyte bomb, a squad of Ridgerunners for fire support, and some Neophytes to grab objectives and pick on screens. The most difficult part is that most of the weapons that make the troop units effective are 1-per box so starting out your options are not going to be as optimal as those available to someone that has been collecting for awhile.

I would not recommend including the elite characters until at least 1000-1500 points. You have to give up too many bodies to include them which limits their effectiveness somewhat given most are designed to buff other units. I'm a bit hesitant about bringing a Patriarch at under 1000 points for similar reasons, but depending on creed you could make it work. Speaking of creeds, if you are just starting out I would seriously consider taking Bladed Cog instead of the Four-Armed Emperor. The Four-Armed Emperor creed is a useful one with a powerful toolbox, but the amount of your army that will benefit from it is rather small and most of its tricks are limited to once-per-game. Bladed Cog in contrast has something to offer almost every unit all game.

Also as an aside, I personally like Atlan Jackals in larger units for screening and harassment. They are one of the most durable units in the army for their points and are good for board control.

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

The other thing to think about is while Neophytes look more like the rest of the faction, they are often nowhere as efficient as Brood Brothers sadly. Unless you use Neophytes for things Brood Brothers can't do.

Just to expand on this a bit, Brood Brothers are a better option if you only need warm bodies for objectives and screening or if your creed ability is oriented towards melee support. Neophytes do better if your army build is including force multipliers that they can benefit from (Alphus, Kelermorph, Primus) and/or is using a creed ability that has more universal applications (or leans towards shooting).

Thanks for the tips. My first SC box arrived today and my plan is to get another for my second purchase.

In your opinion what counts as an elite character? How many and which HQs do you recommend? Any favourite load outs for the Ridgerunner (especially at lower points level) - i'll probably try and magnetise it.

The Broo brothers side of GSC just doesn't really appeal to me if i'm honest - that will be my main reason to avoid them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
Full disclosure, I am bad with GSC. I am space marine player (both spikey and not spikey) so they work very different to how usually play, and I am still wrapping my head around them. I also mostly play other marines so I am probably overly focused on battling MEQs and other marine units.

Neophytes: It is a tough call as for small point games the Heavy Stubber might suit you better, but I think in the long run you will want Mining Lasers. I would also consider the Grenade Launcher over the Webber as it is both more flexible but really you might find yourself lacking many high Strength weapons outside of melee. The other thing to think about is while Neophytes look more like the rest of the faction, they are often nowhere as efficient as Brood Brothers sadly. Unless you use Neophytes for things Brood Brothers can't do.

Acolytes: I am a concerned about MSU of Acolytes. They have to get into melee and that is a lot of Charge rolls and potentially a decent amount of Overwatch to cripple them before they get there. Any MEQ weapon on Overwatch has a good chance of killing an Acolyte if they roll a 6 to hit. So between failed charges (which you might as well write off that squad) and spikes in Overwatch you might only be delivering the Rock Saws and the Leader into melee. In general, I have found there is almost no such thing as too many Acolytes. The issue being the models cost a bit of money for only five.

Atalan Jackals: They have to get with in half range to even kinda scare MEQ. Even then they really won't. At the same time, you are probably looking to have bikers as in your bigger army as a player. So I understand wanting to have a squad here and build onto later. I would still consider building them for use as a demo charge bomb. Not as good as it used to be with the points increase, but still can really hurt one big thing really well.

HQ: If you get the Broodcoven box I totally understand taking the Magus starting out. I could even see changing out the Kellermorph for the Primus as the Primus is a bit stronger in low point games potentially as your opponent might be fielding less units overall getting more use out of Planning than a 2000 point game. Also, you can make use of the Broodcoven stratagem. The Kellermorph isn't bad though. At the same time, I also like the Clamavus to help make charges. At 500 points, I wouldn't have more than 3 special characters though, so you do have to pick what you want your GSC to do based on them.

Finally, your Cult Creed does make a difference into how your army will function as each Creed has a signature unit to some extent. That would also help focus your army a bit better.

So would you recommend changing the Acolytes in to one 10 man squad which 2 saws instead? Gives them more survivability, protects the saws more and frees up some points. I'm really torn between the Primus and Kellermorph now (although I need to get my troops painted first so I have a while to decide).

Re:Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Strat_N8 — GMT

BennoPaints wrote:

In your opinion what counts as an elite character?

I was referring to the characters with the Elites battlefield role, so the Clamavus, Nexos, Biophagus, Locus, Sanctus, and Kelermorph. They all have their uses, but you need to keep in mind that their costs are very similar to many combat units (for around the mean, you can get a squad of Neophytes/Acolytes/Metamorphs/Jackals or a Ridgerunner) so there is a sizable opportunity cost to taking them at low points. At higher point levels the core of your army should be fairly well developed which makes it is less costly to invest in specialist pieces.

BennoPaints wrote:

How many and which HQs do you recommend?

I generally take the minimum needed to unlock detachments until I have maxed out on detachments. At 1500 I generally have 4-5 in total and at 2000 I generally have around 6-7.

Which HQ models you take depends a bit on your army style. I personally like hybrid lists that have a combination of ambushing melee and a mobile on-table element, so I tend to bring at least one Primus and Alphus for dice modification. The Iconward is also generally useful for giving squads a bit of extra survivability and they have some useful relics that can be leveraged, plus it can cheaply fill a slot if needed.

The Patriarch is good but I tend to favor mine in larger games where I can have it lurk among a swarm of other units to keep it safe. It is a very high priority target so it needs underlings. I also very much enjoy the Abominant as Bladed Cog or Pauper Princes where he can leverage their faction-specific relics quite effectively, but he is a more niche choice due to his cost at the moment. The Magus is a bit pricy for a psyker but they are useful to have in certain match-ups (Thousand Suns and Grey Knights in particular) and most of the powers available to the GSCs are fairly strong. If you are going more ambush-heavy they are a more appealing option, while mech and hybrid will probably look to leverage the other HQs more.

BennoPaints wrote:

Any favourite load outs for the Ridgerunner (especially at lower points level) - i'll probably try and magnetise it.

I tend to run mine with the Heavy Mining Laser and either the Flare Launcher (if bringing bikes or Goliaths) or the Spotter. I have played with Mortars for cheap bike slinging, but generally the Heavy Mining Laser wins out because it fulfills a niche that cannot be easily replicated either in the army or among allies. S9 weaponry with comparatively high volume of shots and easy access to hit and wound modification (Alphus, Primus, Overcharged Weapons, Chilling Efficiency) is extremely rare and very powerful when fully leveraged.

BennoPaints wrote:

The Brood brothers side of GSC just doesn't really appeal to me if i'm honest - that will be my main reason to avoid them.

That is fair and as I pointed out their desirability is heavily dependent on what creed you are using. If you are using one that doesn't do much for fire support assets they let you shave some points off your on-table "anvil".

BennoPaints wrote:

I'm really torn between the Primus and Kellermorph now (although I need to get my troops painted first so I have a while to decide).

Given you have a fair amount of Neophytes (with more coming) you may want the Kelermorph actually. While he doesn't fill a mandatory slot he does offer a bit more for your shooting units and helps them do their job in clearing a path for your melee assets.

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

PenitentJake — GMT

Your original list had 3 HQ + 3 elites- since you only need 2 HQ for the battalion, I'd field it as a Battalion + a Vanguard for the extra CP.

Re:Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Saturmorn Carvilli — GMT

BennoPaints wrote:
So would you recommend changing the Acolytes in to one 10 man squad which 2 saws instead? Gives them more survivability, protects the saws more and frees up some points. I'm really torn between the Primus and Kellermorph now (although I need to get my troops painted first so I have a while to decide).

Starting out I probably would. You get more out of a 10 man squad with character Auras and Stratagems. Also, it has been a bit, but I think you can have 4 Rock Saws in a 10 man squad (or was it an 11 man squad?). I can't remember offhand.

Well, I think for small point games, the Primus helps you out a little more since it is an HQ. A least if you are trying to make a double battalion list which is possible even in small point games. That said, the Kellermorph can make some hurt. I lean toward the Primus first, as that will give you better practice learning GSC since it will be harder your opponent to screen the Kellermorph in smaller games which might lead to some bad habits.

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

the_scotsman — GMT

Why would your cult creed have any bearing on what brood bros bring to the table?

They don't get cult creeds.

Unless you're saying that if you bring a non-shooty cult, Neophytes become less desirable, which I can kind of get behind.

(However, psst, I use Brood Brothers as an excuse to buy Necromunda gangs....they look so fething good on the table next to GSC...)

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Saturmorn Carvilli — GMT

the_scotsman wrote:
Why would your cult creed have any bearing on what brood bros bring to the table?

They don't get cult creeds.

Unless you're saying that if you bring a non-shooty cult, Neophytes become less desirable, which I can kind of get behind.

(However, psst, I use Brood Brothers as an excuse to buy Necromunda gangs....they look so [sic] good on the table next to GSC...)

I think the idea is more that some Cult Creeds make Neophytes more desirable making it easier to pick them over Brood Brothers. Rusted Claw/Blade Claw Neophytes with their increase durability might make them more worthwhile over Brood Brothers even if they are armed basically the same.

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Hankovitch — GMT

Slightly tangential, but... If you need to increase your numbers of neophytes cheaply, there are so many extra heads, arms, and weapons in the Acolyte and Neophyte boxes that you can build a lot of conversions.

If you get some cheap (secondhand) Imperial Guard, for instance, you can swap out their heads and maybe a few arms and bam, Neophytes/Brood Brothers.

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Strat_N8 — GMT

the_scotsman wrote:
Why would your cult creed have any bearing on what brood bros bring to the table?

[…]

Unless you're saying that if you bring a non-shooty cult, Neophytes become less desirable, which I can kind of get behind.

More or less the latter. It comes down to what sorts of playstyle the creed lends itself towards and whether that playstyle has room for the force multipliers that Neophytes can leverage or not. A creed that focuses more on the melee or ambush aspects of the army generally will also lean more towards melee support units. These factors together means there is little opportunity cost to taking Brood Brothers since Neophytes won't be getting much (if any) benefit from the army's force multipliers while paying a point tax for said benefit. In a creed that has a more universal or shooting-centric ability, taking Brood Brothers comes with a comparative opportunity cost since they won't be able to leverage the toolset like Neophytes can.

A good example is Hivecult. The creed ability itself is good for Neophytes (withdraw and shoot, reduced moral casualties), while the signature stratagem gets exponentially better the more units with the Hivecult Keyword are present to set it up and benefit from it. Hivecult also tends to favor the inclusion of an Alphus since it is more ranged-oriented, which provides another source of modifiers that Neophytes can use that Brood Brothers cannot.

Or to put it another way, Neophytes do best when they can leverage force multipliers. If those multipliers are not available (which is the case for many of the popular tournament-GSC lists) Brood Brothers are more cost effective since they don't "pay" for the privilege.

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

BennoPaints — GMT

Thanks so much for all your replies again everyone. I've taken it all on board and come up with the below 500pt list - which I think is a good combo of being effective (based on your advice) and not having to buy too many boxes after my 2 Start Collecting ones. I will make my Neophytes with mining lasers but proxy them as stubbers for longevity. Then I'm thinking I can build toward a section detachment of a Vanguard or Outrider when I build to 750pts (I already have one fast and one elite choice in the list).

What do you think? Any votes on a creed for this?

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [28 PL, 496pts] ++

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, 53pts]

Primus [4 PL, 75pts]: Bonesword

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 120pts]: Cult Icon
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid: 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cultist Knife, 5x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 57pts]
. 6x Neophyte Hybrid: 6x Autogun, 6x Autopistol, 6x Blasting Charges
. Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): Grenade Launcher
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol, Chainsword

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 57pts]
. 6x Neophyte Hybrid: 6x Autogun, 6x Autopistol, 6x Blasting Charges
. Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): Grenade Launcher
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Kelermorph [3 PL, 75pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts]
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber, Spotter

++ Total: [28 PL, 496pts] ++

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Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Strat_N8 — GMT

Based on what you have I'd suggest going with the Bladed Cog. They give you a bit of added durability (especially for your characters, the Kelermorph gets a 4++ and the relic allows your Primus to have a 3++) and let your Neophytes move and shoot without penalty. While Stubbers don't benefit quite as much as the other two weapons, it still makes them a bit more reliable.

Now personally I would probably swap the Kelermorph for a second Ridgerunner for redundancy's sake, but he should be fine. Just keep in mind that you might need to use They Came From Below to get all your ambushers into reserves because how small your reserve allotment is.

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

BennoPaints — GMT

Strat_N8 wrote:
Based on what you have I'd suggest going with the Bladed Cog. They give you a bit of added durability (especially for your characters, the Kelermorph gets a 4++ and the relic allows your Primus to have a 3++) and let your Neophytes move and shoot without penalty. While Stubbers don't benefit quite as much as the other two weapons, it still makes them a bit more reliable.

Now personally I would probably swap the Kelermorph for a second Ridgerunner for redundancy's sake, but he should be fine. Just keep in mind that you might need to use They Came From Below to get all your ambushers into reserves because how small your reserve allotment is.

Thanks - I was wondering about relics so that's useful to know too.

I thought the Kelermorph would be a good buff to the Neophytes but had considered a second Ridgerunner (i'll have 2 anyway). Maybe i'll do that as it's one less thing to buy and then i'll already have 2 fast attacks for an Outrider detachment when I go up to 750pts - I can add an Alphus and some Jackals for example and i'm there.

Help starting GSC - my lock down project

Strat_N8 — GMT

My thought process regarding a second Ridgerunner is based on two factors.

1. Due to your points limit and the matched play restrictions on reserves (no more than 50% of your points/units), you only really have 2 ambush "slots" to work with. The Acolytes really need to be put in reserve since they are such a high priority target. The Kelermorph also really wants to ambush to get in range to use his guns, but you also probably want the Primus alongside the Acolytes to take advantage of his support auras. The Kelermorph also generally prefers to ambush alongside Neophytes rather than Acolytes (greater volume of shots to benefit from his aura and more bodies to take hits for him) which your current points limit doesn't really allow for without using stratagems.

2. It is generally a good idea to take multiples of a given unit for redundancy's sake. A single unit can be prioritized by the enemy for elimination if it threatens their plans, so having backups is a simple way to increase the likelihood that something will survive to do its job.

If you have the models it might not hurt to try out both versions and see which one works best for you.