<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "New Player - Kinda Lost!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net New Player - Kinda Lost!
I am brand new player, and I have some questions that I am hoping you can help with. I am not new to these types of games - I've played Infinity, Malifaux, etc. - but I've not played 40k. Most of my initial questions surround which miniatures/models I am supposed to purchase.

I bought Indomitus, and I suppose it's not the best way to start, since at the moment there is no 9th ed. starter box, I don't own the 9th ed. Chapter Approved, and I don't really want to buy old Codices (may as well wait a bit for the 9th edition versions, right??). I think I want to start a Dark Angels army; their lore/fluff seems interesting, and I like their look. But, I don't quite know how I am supposed to build and paint the models, mostly because I am so new that I don't know whether how I build the model (such as which weapon I use) matters in terms of what I am able to say the unit has on the table. I don't want to build some squads "incorrectly" because they have a bolter but I want them to have, e.g., a plasma weapon for a specific match. How strict are the rules related to "proxying" weapons other than what is on the model?

I'm also unsure which models in the Indomitus box are even valid to "be" Dark Angels. I know the Bladeguard Veterans can be officially, and the Outrider Squad as well, but what else (e.g., the Assault Intercessor Squad, Ancient, Captain, etc.)? Beyond that, I know there are are few "wings," and I'm not quite sure which should be painted as Greening, Deathwing, etc. (not to mention the various companies!). I also have a Deathwing Command Squad box, but those can be built as Knights and Terminators as well; if I choose one, such as Knights, must that model only play as a Knight forever more?

The Necrons that come in Indomitus are the same; they can take a couple of different weapons, and then they can be painted to match one of a few Dynasties.

So, I'm just concerned about making a "mistake" about how I build my models, and then how I paint them (and yes, I know in general I can paint them "how I want," but I don't want people snickering when I deploy them...). These things cost quite a bit, and I don't want to feel like I've messed up.

I'm sure I could go on, but I suspect you all understand my main concerns at this point. Any guidance would be welcome!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884669.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884669.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
As to the Deathwing Terminators box if you build them as Deathwing Knights you're stuck with them since they have a very restricted loadout that doesn't overlap with other units, but the models for the standard Terminators and the Command Squad are the same except for equipment.

As to the paint schemes as of the latest fluff the only things that are actually Deathwing are Terminators, some Dreadnaughts, some Land Raiders, and the Master of the Deathwing, and the only things that are Ravenwing are bikes, Land Speeders, and airplanes. Everything else (including all Primaris released in 8e) is the standard green scheme. If I were to guess you'll probably see Bladeguard in Deathwing bone and Outriders in Ravenwing black in the next book, but we don't know for sure unless someone at GW has painted and displayed a DA Indomitus box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Facemelter wrote:
...How strict are the rules related to "proxying" weapons other than what is on the model?...


This is very playgroup-dependent. If you walk into a GW store and try to play a game there they may insist you have all your models built exactly according to the directions, but most casual groups are looser.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Facemelter wrote:
...The Necrons that come in Indomitus are the same; they can take a couple of different weapons, and then they can be painted to match one of a few Dynasties...


I have no idea which weapon on the Warriors is going to end up being better; I'm building about half and half.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884677.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884677.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost! fwiw. In years past WYSIWYG was very stringent and still is in competitive meta. But the actual rules for that are limited to tournament specific rules. For casual games so long as the base size matches and the model is not another officially supported model or used to represent multiple different units you should be fine. For example I use volkite to represent inferno combi bolters. Long as I don't count them as multiple weapon types in the same army there's no problem.

Paint is whatever you choose there's no wrong choice here.

As for Indomitus pretty much every marine unit in the box is competitive and many of the HQs are solid too. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884680.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884680.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
Facemelter wrote:
Hello all,

I am brand new player, and I have some questions that I am hoping you can help with. I am not new to these types of games - I've played Infinity, Malifaux, etc. - but I've not played 40k. Most of my initial questions surround which miniatures/models I am supposed to purchase.

I bought Indomitus, and I suppose it's not the best way to start, since at the moment there is no 9th ed. starter box, I don't own the 9th ed. Chapter Approved, and I don't really want to buy old Codices (may as well wait a bit for the 9th edition versions, right??). I think I want to start a Dark Angels army; their lore/fluff seems interesting, and I like their look. But, I don't quite know how I am supposed to build and paint the models, mostly because I am so new that I don't know whether how I build the model (such as which weapon I use) matters in terms of what I am able to say the unit has on the table. I don't want to build some squads "incorrectly" because they have a bolter but I want them to have, e.g., a plasma weapon for a specific match. How strict are the rules related to "proxying" weapons other than what is on the model?

Its a starter box, its a great way to start if you like one or both armies in it.

Facemelter wrote:

I'm also unsure which models in the Indomitus box are even valid to "be" Dark Angels. I know the Bladeguard Veterans can be officially, and the Outrider Squad as well, but what else (e.g., the Assault Intercessor Squad, Ancient, Captain, etc.)? Beyond that, I know there are are few "wings," and I'm not quite sure which should be painted as Greening, Deathwing, etc. (not to mention the various companies!). I also have a Deathwing Command Squad box, but those can be built as Knights and Terminators as well; if I choose one, such as Knights, must that model only play as a Knight forever more?


Until GW says something nobody knows for sure which models will be Dark Angels compliant. Recent History strongly suggests any Primaris not specifically one chapter (i.e named characters: Khan, Tigurius, Calgar, Zakariah) is available to all. I would not assume any given unit will be Deathwing/Ravenwing compatible. I wouldn't even assume there will be a DW/RW going forwards. Heck, I could even see the return of all the Dark Angels "wings" and units we're trying to shoehorn into one of the current wings ends up in anohter. So far one Loyalist Primarch is back on the tabletop, and two? Chaos Primarchs. Johnson has been teased for a return for about as long and possibly even harder than Guilliman. His return could/would easily be a return of the rest of the Unforgiven's wings.

As for your Command/Knight squad - to some extent that depends on how you build them and how much advanced modeling you want to do. If you want to spend the time, you could magnetize them enough to make them both depending on which arms, torsos, etc you stick together for any given game. If you check out Youtube you'll find a lot of videos on magnetizing options on models like Predator turrets and sponsons etc. If you glue in the mace and storm shield, they're pretty much stuck being knights.

The Necrons that come in Indomitus are the same; they can take a couple of different weapons, and then they can be painted to match one of a few Dynasties.

So, I'm just concerned about making a "mistake" about how I build my models, and then how I paint them (and yes, I know in general I can paint them "how I want," but I don't want people snickering when I deploy them...). These things cost quite a bit, and I don't want to feel like I've messed up.


Until GW says something nobody knows for sure which models will be Dark Angels compliant. Recent History strongly suggests any Primaris not specifically one chapter (i.e named characters: Khan, Tigurius, Calgar, Zakariah) is available to all. I would not assume any given unit will be Deathwing/Ravenwing compatible. I wouldn't even assume there will be a DW/RW going forwards. Heck, I could even see the return of all the Dark Angels "wings" and units we're trying to shoehorn into one of the current wings ends up in anohter. So far one Loyalist Primarch is back on the tabletop, and two? Chaos Primarchs. I kind of suspect we'll see a Primarch or similar for Just about each Legion/Chapter that gets their own Army Book (Not Supplement) i.e. we already have Magnus, and Mortarion, I personally expect to see Angron, (and if they're really doing the return of the Primarchs Fulgrim) plus an Undivided (or potentially two) to balance Guilliman (and potentially another "Codex Chapter") - Johnson has been teased for a return for about as long and possibly even harder than Guilliman. His return could/would easily be a return of the rest of the Unforgiven's wings. Russ has been teased for a return for a long time, but not as hard. Sanguinius is dead, but they've toyed with teasing a return in some form with the Sanguinor and various other story hooks.

As for your Command/Knight/Necrons squad modelling question - to some extent that depends on how you build them and how much advanced modeling you want to do. If you want to spend the time, you could magnetize them enough to make them both depending on which arms, torsos, etc you stick together for any given game. If you check out Youtube you'll find a lot of videos on magnetizing options on models like Predator turrets and sponsons etc. If you glue in the mace and storm shield, they're pretty much stuck being knights. Once upon a time I bought some Terminator squads, and some Forgeworld Chapter shoulder pads, and I was able to magnetize three sets of arms for each Terminator to swap back and forth between guns, claws and hammers.
Facemelter wrote:

I'm sure I could go on, but I suspect you all understand my main concerns at this point. Any guidance would be welcome!


Welcome and have fun


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum: I was just looking through my Indomitus Assembly Instructions - The second page with the base size diagram also has a four-pane window with a Bladeguard Veteran post painting in all four of the "main" liveries. Ultramarine Blue, Blood Angel Red, Space Wolf Grey, and... Deathwing Bone. Or they painted the DA guy as a Successor Chapter Angels of Absolution. That would be both a weird cop out, and totally in keeping with GW not knowing how or if they want to work Primaris into the -Wings.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884743.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884743.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
 AnomanderRake wrote:
If I were to guess you'll probably see Bladeguard in Deathwing bone and Outriders in Ravenwing black in the next book, but we don't know for sure unless someone at GW has painted and displayed a DA Indomitus box.


From WH Community, we've already had a Deathwing Bladeguard:


Facemelter - As has been said, we can expect all of the Indomitus models to be available to Dark Angels. For painting, The Bladeguard Veterans (and presumably Ancient) will probably be a part of the Deathwing, although there's always a chance GW could change their minds between whoever painting the model for that WH community picture above and the next DA Codex - but there's no reason to expect them to. The captain however, despite being stylistically linked to the bladeguard, probably shouldn't be Deathwing from a lore perspective, because the Deathwing only has one captain and that's Belial. Similarly, the Outriders would make sense as being Ravenwing, and everything else in the standard DA colours.

For equipment choices - some people will expect you to use what's on the model ("What you see is what you get" - WYSIWG), but I feel more often than not the person owning the army cares more about having the correct equipment modelled than a lot of their opponents do. Some events like tournaments are likely to insist on WYSIWG, purely because it's a lot easier for your opponent to identify your model if it's got the right equipment, rather than having to keep checking your list or remember which models are proxies. Casual games will depend on your opponent/playgroup. A lot of players like their armies to be WYSIWG and magnetise all of the options, so they can fit the desired weapon for each game. That does take longer, though, and it can be particularly fiddly on infantry-sized models. Personally I don't bother for infantry - I choose an option and stick with it - but for larger models and vehicles I usually magnetise the options.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884962.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884962.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost! DA fluff/codex) are supposedly members of the Deathwing. They just go back to the Battle Companies to lead them in DA green. Amusingly Samael does not get Deathwing Rules even though he's a Master (of The Ravenwing)

As mentioned that color scheme is also shared with the Angels of Absolution a Dark Angels Successor Chapter. It's unlikely they would have UM, SW, BA and then a DA successor chapter though. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884998.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10884998.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
Breton wrote:
That's not quite true, all Masters (as Captains are called in the DA fluff/codex) are supposedly members of the Deathwing.


Not all. Primaris Masters weren't Deathwing until Lazarus ascended. They even lack the Deathwing keyword other Masters have.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885009.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885009.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
It appears GW doesn't quite know what to do with the Wings and Primaris. Or they aren't ready to do whatever it is they're going to do either canning the Wings entirely, or fully integrating them. Potentially even a return of the rest of the Wings with the Lion.

For the most basic answer to the question - there's an errata for the Edge of Silence https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/WwmEkmb1MyUp2pPp.pdf

It's got the standard boxed set pink text for replacing <CHAPTER> we saw in Shadowspear and Dark Imperium. But they sadly copy/pasted the wrong one, and it doesn't have the instructions for changing other keywords - Captain to Master/Wolf Lord etc. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885013.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885013.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost! wysiwyg, please do so. You can't blame the opponent for frowning upon proxies if you have the option to follow wysiwyg but decide not to.

Don't worry if your army is not tailored to certain match-ups. Using non-optimized army can be fun too.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885060.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885060.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost! DA army is painted as Ravenwing. Go nuts and do what you like. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885594.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885594.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost! WYSIWYG as best I can.

It's tedious to drill all those holes, but it's far better and easier for me than buying copies of models I already have because I glued the wrong gun to it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885781.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885781.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
 Afrodactyl wrote:
Pin or magnetise stuff! I use a quick two-pin on most of my models that have weapon options so I can swap stuff out and stay WYSIWYG as best I can.

It's tedious to drill all those holes, but it's far better and easier for me than buying copies of models I already have because I glued the wrong gun to it.


Though do note that this also requires you carry around/sort through a bin of tiny little extraneous bits, and paint tiny little extraneous bits. It's a perfectly fine solution if you're comfortable with the extra work and the logistics but you're not handicapping yourself if you don't want to. After having tried to magnetize combi-weapons/special weapons on Sternguard and finding that incredibly tedious I've ended up mostly magnetizing large things I don't use a huge number of (ex. Armiger arms) or models that would be irritating to transport if I glued them together all the way (ex. Custodian jetbike lances).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885804.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10885804.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
Pin or magnetise stuff! I use a quick two-pin on most of my models that have weapon options so I can swap stuff out and stay WYSIWYG as best I can.

It's tedious to drill all those holes, but it's far better and easier for me than buying copies of models I already have because I glued the wrong gun to it.


Though do note that this also requires you carry around/sort through a bin of tiny little extraneous bits, and paint tiny little extraneous bits. It's a perfectly fine solution if you're comfortable with the extra work and the logistics but you're not handicapping yourself if you don't want to. After having tried to magnetize combi-weapons/special weapons on Sternguard and finding that incredibly tedious I've ended up mostly magnetizing large things I don't use a huge number of (ex. Armiger arms) or models that would be irritating to transport if I glued them together all the way (ex. Custodian jetbike lances).


I don’t magnetize anything smaller than an arm. I just use extra arm bits to create entire arms or arm sets for Devastator/twohander types to swap rather than just a fist holding a gun.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10886465.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10886465.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
Facemelter wrote:
Hello all,

I am brand new player, and I have some questions that I am hoping you can help with. I am not new to these types of games - I've played Infinity, Malifaux, etc. - but I've not played 40k. Most of my initial questions surround which miniatures/models I am supposed to purchase.

I bought Indomitus, and I suppose it's not the best way to start, since at the moment there is no 9th ed. starter box, I don't own the 9th ed. Chapter Approved, and I don't really want to buy old Codices (may as well wait a bit for the 9th edition versions, right??). I think I want to start a Dark Angels army; their lore/fluff seems interesting, and I like their look. But, I don't quite know how I am supposed to build and paint the models, mostly because I am so new that I don't know whether how I build the model (such as which weapon I use) matters in terms of what I am able to say the unit has on the table. I don't want to build some squads "incorrectly" because they have a bolter but I want them to have, e.g., a plasma weapon for a specific match. How strict are the rules related to "proxying" weapons other than what is on the model?

I'm also unsure which models in the Indomitus box are even valid to "be" Dark Angels. I know the Bladeguard Veterans can be officially, and the Outrider Squad as well, but what else (e.g., the Assault Intercessor Squad, Ancient, Captain, etc.)? Beyond that, I know there are are few "wings," and I'm not quite sure which should be painted as Greening, Deathwing, etc. (not to mention the various companies!). I also have a Deathwing Command Squad box, but those can be built as Knights and Terminators as well; if I choose one, such as Knights, must that model only play as a Knight forever more?

The Necrons that come in Indomitus are the same; they can take a couple of different weapons, and then they can be painted to match one of a few Dynasties.

So, I'm just concerned about making a "mistake" about how I build my models, and then how I paint them (and yes, I know in general I can paint them "how I want," but I don't want people snickering when I deploy them...). These things cost quite a bit, and I don't want to feel like I've messed up.

I'm sure I could go on, but I suspect you all understand my main concerns at this point. Any guidance would be welcome!


I've been playing for 5 years and never had an issue. As long as you indicate what the model is equipped with and pay the appropriate points, almost no one is going to give you guff about it. Case in point, I have a squad oa CSM havoks with 4 heavy bolters. I always pay for Chaincannons and just use the models with the HB as a stand in.

Anyone who does get mad at you for not having a perfect matching army, should go suck an egg. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887041.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887041.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
 Togusa wrote:


I've been playing for 5 years and never had an issue. As long as you indicate what the model is equipped with and pay the appropriate points, almost no one is going to give you guff about it. Case in point, I have a squad oa CSM havoks with 4 heavy bolters. I always pay for Chaincannons and just use the models with the HB as a stand in.

Anyone who does get mad at you for not having a perfect matching army, should go suck an egg.


dunno bout that, I was called a cheater last week for giving my assault intercessor sgt a hand flamer and thunderhammer and then paying points for it(in narrative play, which GW said was cool), so some people are just donkey-caves.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887091.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887091.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
I think the indomitus set is a very nice starting point and great value for money especially if you sell of the Necron half if it has no interest to you.

You get the rulebook and a workable detatchement.
Are you intending on just doing a table top bare standard minimum to have the army on the table or do you intend to put some time into painting?

Reason i bring this up is that chances are by the time you end up gluing and painting all the stuff fairly long time will pass.
Also dont worry about messing up. All the indomitus models are new and all come with only one way to make them if you follow the instructions.

As to if they can be actual DA or not depends on when they will get their codex/supplament/ FAQ but I doubt you will have to wait long. I think GW is keen to have all of the marines available to all of the marines because that means more sold marines and they can make more marines. Its their hen that lays golden eggs after all. Astheticaly you can always pick up the DA upgrade sprues and DA up your models.

You can paint them in DA colours and use them as another chapter entirely if they not yet legal as DA im sure nobody sane will mind.

Might be worth hunting down one of the primaris starter sets (Primaris half od dark imperium for example) should be able to get it fairly reasonably on ebay as a way to supplament your force.
But really. I would sugest you just have fun and build and paint what you have bought. Play a couple games and see what you like in terms of playstyle, minatures and lore and just buy more of that to supplement your army.

IMPORTANT POINT: Its a marathon not a sprint of a hobby. Chances are by the time you finish building your army the rules/points might change radically. Unless you are planing on selling the army and getting the new hot thing each time theres a big updated I would just stick with slowly building your faction up with the units you like to play with. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887106.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887106.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
Racerguy180 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:


I've been playing for 5 years and never had an issue. As long as you indicate what the model is equipped with and pay the appropriate points, almost no one is going to give you guff about it. Case in point, I have a squad oa CSM havoks with 4 heavy bolters. I always pay for Chaincannons and just use the models with the HB as a stand in.

Anyone who does get mad at you for not having a perfect matching army, should go suck an egg.


dunno bout that, I was called a cheater last week for giving my assault intercessor sgt a hand flamer and thunderhammer and then paying points for it(in narrative play, which GW said was cool), so some people are just donkey-caves.


Anyone who ever does something like that to me, get's put on a list. And I never, EVER play a game with that person again. It's insane to try and force players to have the exact model for the job just because someone wants to rules monger. As long as you A) Clearly indicate what your models are using and B) Pay the points for it in your list building, then there is no issue. Tournaments may have a different idea, but I do not play in tournaments so that does not apply to me. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887153.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887153.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost! flgs, I would've laughed in their face. But alas, it happened on here and could give 2 gaks about what they think.



NARRATIVE FOR THE NARRATIVE GOD!
DEATH TO THE TOURNEYS!!!!!!


just in case some of you are offended....nobody cares.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887201.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887201.page GMT New Player - Kinda Lost!
 Togusa wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:


I've been playing for 5 years and never had an issue. As long as you indicate what the model is equipped with and pay the appropriate points, almost no one is going to give you guff about it. Case in point, I have a squad oa CSM havoks with 4 heavy bolters. I always pay for Chaincannons and just use the models with the HB as a stand in.

Anyone who does get mad at you for not having a perfect matching army, should go suck an egg.


dunno bout that, I was called a cheater last week for giving my assault intercessor sgt a hand flamer and thunderhammer and then paying points for it(in narrative play, which GW said was cool), so some people are just donkey-caves.


Anyone who ever does something like that to me, get's put on a list. And I never, EVER play a game with that person again. It's insane to try and force players to have the exact model for the job just because someone wants to rules monger. As long as you A) Clearly indicate what your models are using and B) Pay the points for it in your list building, then there is no issue. Tournaments may have a different idea, but I do not play in tournaments so that does not apply to me.


And you keep it to a minimum for testing purposes prior to a purchase. If you have 60 proxies on 40 models nobody is going to want to play with you either. Few people will have an issue with the one thing here and there to remember. But if they have to remember bolt guns are meltaguns, while meltaguns are actually plasmaguns, because plasmaguns are gravcannons except in Assault Marine Squads where they're Flamers instead is going to make people wait for the next game. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887269.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/790584/10887269.page GMT