FrozenDwarf wrote:
Do you apply varnish on the model before you do the oil wash?
I allways do to protect the paint, i allso use a thinner from MIG spesificly for oil and enamel paints(atleast that is what it says on the bottle) when i do my oil washes.

I honestly dont know why your attempts wont flow out, but i never had that issue.
Perhaps some surface tension aspect is playing a role here? i never realy tought about how it works, im just happy that it works.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
For smaller scale models with small surfaces like a space marine, you don't really need to varnish beforehand, so I am wondering if it's the varnish that hasn't cured properly between coats before oil washing or your varnish has clogged some of the detail and that is causing the issue. I'm always paranoid with varnish so I'm leaving the stuff for ages between coats as I've been burned before. Are you using polyurethane varnish?

Generally, the folks you see on youtube with the exception of a few are using high quality oils and they do a lot better when thinned down into a wash like consistency. I don't, but I don't have the issue you have.

Milk is a general guideline for consistency, but ultimately it depends a lot on "feel" if the wash is thinned too much, it won't transport the pigment because the oil separates which is where I think you may be encountering your issue. I don't use sansodor, just white spirit as my thinner, and if you're too hard on the model, the paint will lift, varnish or none, because white spirit is a solvent.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I would try it without the gloss beforehand. I’ve never used it unless I had large flat areas I wanted untouched by the wash. Like a vehicle.

 Kalamadea wrote:
Might be that Vallejo Gloss, but oil solvents shouldn't be breaking through it at all. Might try a different brand varnish, I personally use Future Finish (see this website for what the current label is), but any acrylic or polyurethane gloss SHOULD be OK.

But I suspect it's the Sansador. I've never used that thinner, but after looking at the W&N site and their "choosing a solvent" vidoe, I don't think it's acting like the odorless white spirits do when they thin oils and it might also be what's eating through the gloss varnish. Mona Lisa brand odorless paint thinner or Weber brand odorless turpenoid are the only 2 thinners I use, (mostly Weber) both are awesome and almost completely odorless and dry fairly quickly (Sansodor is specifically mentioned as slow-drying). and they don't lift the acrylic paint or varnish. Both are readily available online and in art supply stores.

Lastly, look into enamel washes. They are awesome for mechanical parts for 2 reasons: they wipe away cleaner leaving a hard line behind (oil washes tend to smear, leaving a blurry edge, better for soft and round shapes). Also, enamel washes can be applied directly to acrylic paint without a gloss coat. My 2 favorite are Tamiya Panel Line Accent Color and PLW (panel line wash) by Mig Jimenez/AMMO, with the Mig PLW being my favorite. Both are ready-mixed washes that can be applied straight from the bottle and then clean up with white spirits just like oil washes (dry Q-tip, or a Q-tip wetted with a bit of thinner). I prefer the MIG PLW because it's a little thinner and flows better and wipes away cleaner, but the Tamiya has a brush built into the cap, has a short squat bottle that doesn't tip over, and sometimes you want the wash to be a little more resistant to wiping away. Without a gloss coat they don't wick into the recesses quite as easily, but they wipe away cleaner and don't stain the area like oil washes do, so it's OK to be alittle messy with them

In my Ultramarines thread I used a dark grey MIG PLW enamel wash for the Ultramarines and a traditional oil wash of Winsor & Newton burnt umber+black for the Custodes

 skchsan wrote:
You may have "erased" the crevices with all that varnish.

 Valander wrote:

MoneyWaster00 wrote:
I checked the consistency so it flows easily enough and the colour is dark enough to my preference, about a milky consistency,

May I ask anyone with oil wash pinning experience as to why this is happening ?

My guess is if it's "milky consistency" it's far too thick for doing the oil pin-washing (which I do all the time). For it to flow, you need it to be really thin, like thinner than inks. It's hard to give an exact ratio, but if I have say one-half small brush full of oil paint out of the tube (like the size of a grain of rice or smaller), that will probably get 10-15 drops of mineral spirits to thin. It should run easily off the side of the container/palette cup, leaving very little on the edge and flowing naturally into the well.

For clean up, if needed, a very light hand with a cotton swab or makeup sponge with just a tiny amount of mineral spirits to dampen it is all I usually need.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, yeah, if your varnish coat is too thick, it will have filled in the recesses and thus the oils won't have anywhere to run into. I actually have found it's not always necessary to varnish before oils, depending on what paint is on there (GW still needs it; Warcolours and Vallejo don't). It doesn't hurt, of course, but you need to make sure it's very thin coats of varnish.

 Kalamadea wrote:
You can use oil washes over bare paint, but it won't flow like a pin wash and it will leave behind some staining depending on how flat/matte your paint is. It's good for round organic and fur shapes, not great for mechanical armor and panels. The gloss coat primarily lets the oil wash wipe away cleaner and helps it flow into crevices from capillary action. Unfortunately, there's no substiture for experience, so try it on a few spare models and see how you like it.

As for enamels, no rebreather necessary for hand painting unless you're particularly sensitive. They have a slight smell to them, but nothing that has ever bothered me. They definitely work with odorless white spirit, they would probably work fine with Sansador, but that is really expensive compared to the Weber/Mona Lisa, where $15 gets you a liter sized bottle. In an airbrush, you're aerosolizing the paints, probably best to use a rebreather then. Note that the paints themselves are not very toxic (except for a few like cadnium red!), but the thinners vary greatly in toxicity. Turpentine is very bad for you, some of the odorless ones are specifically much safer to use. If in doubt, you already have a mask, so just use it when airbrushing.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Too high a gloss sheen can actually negatively affect oil washes due to the increased surface tension. This can sometimes take the form of the oil wash beading on the surface. Not sure if this has been mentioned.

I would try again with a satin wash, or even on bare paint.