<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
It’s disappointing and looks a bit lazy to me especially compared to the style and creativity going into the new AOS chaos models ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086397.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086397.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086400.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086400.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086402.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086402.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
 Valkyrie wrote:
For me the ramshackle look is fine on Cultists and such, as they're mostly a ramshackle militia armed with whatever they can make/find. With the actual Chaos Marines however, I'm not too fussed but would prefer to have the option to leave them off if I want.


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle? Surely both khornate and shaneeshi cultists would take pride in their ability to maintain weapons and armour. This sense of vanity is reflected well in the AOS hedonists.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086404.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086404.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
mrFickle wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
For me the ramshackle look is fine on Cultists and such, as they're mostly a ramshackle militia armed with whatever they can make/find. With the actual Chaos Marines however, I'm not too fussed but would prefer to have the option to leave them off if I want.


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle? Surely both khornate and shaneeshi cultists would take pride in their ability to maintain weapons and armour. This sense of vanity is reflected well in the AOS hedonists.


Because it is Not Allowed for there to ever be any kind of justified rebellion against the most tyrannical regime ever conceived by humanity. Any time anyone rebels, the universe must bend itself over backwards to ensure that they become cackling evil cartoon villains who festoon themselves with spikes and blades, or evil mind controlled mutant cthulhu cultists calling the tyranids, or mind controlled slaves of the necrons.

We have to do this, because if we ever portrayed a sympathetic rebellion in 40k fiction, that might require James Workshop to show a space marine doing a bad guy thing in their role as...hypnotically brainwashed super-soldier enforcers of a regime more genocidal and monstrous than any ever conceived in our time.

Space marines have to wear the primary colors and the sparkly gold sparklepants, and anyone fighting against them has to be spiky and black and immediately visually recognizable as evil.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086413.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086413.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
mrFickle wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
For me the ramshackle look is fine on Cultists and such, as they're mostly a ramshackle militia armed with whatever they can make/find. With the actual Chaos Marines however, I'm not too fussed but would prefer to have the option to leave them off if I want.


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle? Surely both khornate and shaneeshi cultists would take pride in their ability to maintain weapons and armour. This sense of vanity is reflected well in the AOS hedonists.


Don't forget Chaos Marines are old - many are from the Great Civil War that was 10K years ago in the 40K setting. They are encased in armours that are tainted and that they haven't likely ever left in those 10K years, fused to them. Some might even loath the armour that was once the valiant symbol of the Corpse Emperor that they not loathe and hate and seek to crush all that was once his.

Chaos in AoS and in 40K is different. In AoS Chaos is still in its infancy in many ways and this comes through in the lore. We have barbarian tribes and cities that worship Chaos without fully understanding its meaning and often with Chaos Demons taking on the guise of other gods. Something that comes through very strongly in the Warcry Warbands - not a single one outright worships one of the four chaos gods; but they worship gods that any Greater Demon could impersonate.
You also see that Chaos in 40K is far more advanced and many that you encounter are very much fanatical; whilst in AoS many are still on the cusp. Chaos has sunk its claws into them, but they aren't raving mad. They have dreams, hopes, wishes, desires and life beyond Chaos and the gods. I think the best angle is the novella War Queen which shows the more subtle ways that Chaos is working in the setting. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086414.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086414.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models


Look at the tattered robes and cloak, the broken trophy rack, and frayed cabling around the torso and arms. It's a gorgeous model, but those details ruin it a bit for me. He's the bloody Warmaster, his armour and wargear should be on the level of Guilliman in terms of condition, not looking like it's never been serviced in 10,000 years. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086428.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086428.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
mrFickle wrote:
But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle?
They don't have to be - but that's what regular guard models are for.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086430.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086430.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086434.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086434.page GMT Re:Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models "Spikey Bits" used to be an equipment option for CSM that allowed any unit equipped with them to reroll a single missed hit roll in cc. If every Chaos model is going to have "Spikey Bits", can we have our reroll back? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086446.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086446.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models CSM player?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086454.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086454.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
 Valkyrie wrote:
I think one minor aspect that's really bugged me about the new Chaos releases is that Abaddon's armour appears a bit worse for wear.



Look at the tattered robes and cloak, the broken trophy rack, and frayed cabling around the torso and arms. It's a gorgeous model, but those details ruin it a bit for me. He's the bloody Warmaster, his armour and wargear should be on the level of Guilliman in terms of condition, not looking like it's never been serviced in 10,000 years.


Yeah pretty sure abbadon has the resources do do better than that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
For me the ramshackle look is fine on Cultists and such, as they're mostly a ramshackle militia armed with whatever they can make/find. With the actual Chaos Marines however, I'm not too fussed but would prefer to have the option to leave them off if I want.


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle? Surely both khornate and shaneeshi cultists would take pride in their ability to maintain weapons and armour. This sense of vanity is reflected well in the AOS hedonists.


Don't forget Chaos Marines are old - many are from the Great Civil War that was 10K years ago in the 40K setting. They are encased in armours that are tainted and that they haven't likely ever left in those 10K years, fused to them. Some might even loath the armour that was once the valiant symbol of the Corpse Emperor that they not loathe and hate and seek to crush all that was once his.

Chaos in AoS and in 40K is different. In AoS Chaos is still in its infancy in many ways and this comes through in the lore. We have barbarian tribes and cities that worship Chaos without fully understanding its meaning and often with Chaos Demons taking on the guise of other gods. Something that comes through very strongly in the Warcry Warbands - not a single one outright worships one of the four chaos gods; but they worship gods that any Greater Demon could impersonate.
You also see that Chaos in 40K is far more advanced and many that you encounter are very much fanatical; whilst in AoS many are still on the cusp. Chaos has sunk its claws into them, but they aren't raving mad. They have dreams, hopes, wishes, desires and life beyond Chaos and the gods. I think the best angle is the novella War Queen which shows the more subtle ways that Chaos is working in the setting.


Yeah they are old but they are also capable of maintaining operational status. You can’t replace 30k millennium technology with scrap wood and metal ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086507.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086507.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
 Valkyrie wrote:
I think one minor aspect that's really bugged me about the new Chaos releases is that Abaddon's armour appears a bit worse for wear.



Look at the tattered robes and cloak, the broken trophy rack, and frayed cabling around the torso and arms. It's a gorgeous model, but those details ruin it a bit for me. He's the bloody Warmaster, his armour and wargear should be on the level of Guilliman in terms of condition, not looking like it's never been serviced in 10,000 years.


What does Guilliman's armour look like just after a battle? Abaddon is the sort of leader who gets stuck in, also a lot of veterans have old and battered armour, and Abaddon is one of the lads. His ability to emphasise with the average CSM is his main skill frankly. I don't mind that he turns up for combat looking like he has just come out of combat, it is his style, and I bet his wargear works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
If you aren't getting real blood on your Chaos models, are you even a true CSM player?


This deserves an Exalt.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086516.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086516.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
 Valkyrie wrote:
I think one minor aspect that's really bugged me about the new Chaos releases is that Abaddon's armour appears a bit worse for wear.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120102101_CSMAbbaddon01.jpg

Look at the tattered robes and cloak, the broken trophy rack, and frayed cabling around the torso and arms. It's a gorgeous model, but those details ruin it a bit for me. He's the bloody Warmaster, his armour and wargear should be on the level of Guilliman in terms of condition, not looking like it's never been serviced in 10,000 years.


Dunno. There's something about the fine panel lines and reliefs that strikes me as un-Chaosy.

To me, it looks like he could remove it to take a bath every now and then. CSM should be permanently merged with their armor and it should be mutated into a depraved, menacing reflection of humanity!

Remember these days? GW decided to break from this direction in favor of uniformity. Wish there was a way to get back to it. All those glorious reliefs...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086525.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086525.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
Nurgle rots you from the inside out and blights everything you touch.

Khorne makes you so angry you break everything, including your own stuff.

Tzeench warps and changes everything.

And Slaanesh addicts you to drugs, noise and sex until nothing else matters.

These guys can't prevent themselves from being possessed or becoming spawn and you want them to polish their armour?

And people said the return of Guilliman was eroding grimdark.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086527.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086527.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
Valkyrie wrote:I think one minor aspect that's really bugged me about the new Chaos releases is that Abaddon's armour appears a bit worse for wear.

Look at the tattered robes and cloak, the broken trophy rack, and frayed cabling around the torso and arms. It's a gorgeous model, but those details ruin it a bit for me. He's the bloody Warmaster, his armour and wargear should be on the level of Guilliman in terms of condition, not looking like it's never been serviced in 10,000 years.

So you want CSM to look like a bunch of shiny clean cut pretty boys? Like loyalists? No thank you. CSM should look like hard bitten veterans who've fought their way through literal Hell, because that's what they are. Leave the shiny stuff to Bobby G and his G.I. Primarijoes.

Gert wrote:If you aren't getting real blood on your Chaos models, are you even a true CSM player?

Sounds like somebody needs a lesson in Hobby Knife Safety 101.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086537.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086537.page GMT Re:Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models Imo, GW could easily satisfy both parties by making some simple options. Perhaps even a "recent convert" upgrade sprue made to fit with regular SM Primaris models. Just some head, shoulder, and weapon swaps with extra chaosy iconography to pin on your models like they do with purity seals.

Chaos corrupts, but it is a slow process, especially outside the Eye of Terror. Just defacing the Imperial iconography by cutting it up and pasting a few chaos symbols around, it works as new converts. Add a couple chains and skulls that the Imperium make regular use of themselves anyway and you're looking proper chaosy without any spiky bits. Remember, the baroque styling on CSM is due to the corrupting influence of the warp. The armor went in looking like any other loyalist kit, so early stages would still closely resemble loyalist armor.

It is also stated in older lore books at least that CSM often scavenge dead loyalist marines for new kit to replace what has been lost or broken over the years, so seeing a CSM with some new armor or weapon wouldn't be all that surprising. If anything, they'd probably take great pleasure in using a fallen loyalist marine's wargear against their battle brothers and the Imperium. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086557.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086557.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
mrFickle wrote:


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle?


It's not thier choice. As soon as they're fully committed to Chaos the spikes just start growing.

And, as a grand cosmic joke, pretty uniformly too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086566.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086566.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086569.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086569.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
ccs wrote:
mrFickle wrote:


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle?


It's not thier choice. As soon as they're fully committed to Chaos the spikes just start growing.

And, as a grand cosmic joke, pretty uniformly too.


This is true. It has something to do with the corrupting nature of warp energies, but the "why spikes and horns" part has never been answered.

As for ramshackle, chaos doesn't actually make it ramshackle. That's more about the chaos worshippers caring more about functionality than appearance, so like Orks their less warp energy infused equipment and buildings are only taken care of so far as making them work as intended. Once infused with warp energies, most things can fix minor to moderate damage on their own, with little to no intervention from mortals.

It's somewhere between those two points that spikes and baroque styling start to grow from the object in question on their own. Before that, it's all due to cultists tacking spikes to everything in emulation of the ones that would grow due to warp energies, hence the "ramshackle" appearance.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086574.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086574.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models CSM. So there have to be CSM without spikes, horns and mutations. Also Alpha Legion.
So if you don't like the spikey and ramshackle look of GWs Chaos models it's totally okay to use loyalist models. GW themselves however want to have clear faction identities and apparently hate it when models can be used for several armies or systems (aside from Daemons). That's why we have a Codex for Harlequins instead of putting them in both eldar Codizes and BSF Guardsmen aren't sold as Cultists and Snakebites don't have rules to actually use AoS Orks. They don't want to confuse casual customers. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086575.page GMT Re:Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
 SergentSilver wrote:
I think there's room for middle ground on the "pointy bits vs rugged clean" argument.
Forgeworld chaos renegades fit this style. Now discontinued but fairly light on the spikes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086576.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086576.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
 SergentSilver wrote:
ccs wrote:
mrFickle wrote:


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle?


It's not thier choice. As soon as they're fully committed to Chaos the spikes just start growing.

And, as a grand cosmic joke, pretty uniformly too.


This is true. It has something to do with the corrupting nature of warp energies, but the "why spikes and horns" part has never been answered.


Because part of the core visual language of the warhammer universe, that then leached into the warhammer 40k universe, is that any opposition to the factions presented as 'the good guys' causes a person to become more subhuman, and sprouting animal parts is the best way to visually convey that.

It's not just marines and not just chaos - if a human rebels because they're influenced by a xenos force, they become blobby and bug-like. The subfactions of the imperium that are the closest to falling into corruption get animalistic traits, like Wulfen. When a techpriest starts to dabble in forbidden heretek, the robots they create go from having a smoother and more humanoid appearance to being spiky robot dogs and dragons and dinosaurs.

Basically every visual medium that wants you to instantly root for the good guy and hate the bad guy does this, it's standard visual language to make your villain appear deformed, sick, less symmetrical, more bestial, have a darker color palette, or appear to violate gender norms.

It's just more obvious in 40k because it's 100% explicit with the setup of chaos. Here's the chaos god of appearing deformed and sick. Here's the two chaos gods of appearing bestial. Here's the chaos god of violating gender norms.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086593.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086593.page GMT Re:Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models I personally like the spikes, but this "all CSM are mutated and worship Chaos" stuff has got to go. Night Lords don't view the Chaos Powers as gods and have very low instances of mutation, and Iron Warriors are known to chop off limbs and replace them with bionics if they show signs of mutation. Every Legion isn't the Black Legion. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086597.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086597.page GMT Re:Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I personally like the spikes, but this "all CSM are mutated and worship Chaos" stuff has got to go. Night Lords don't view the Chaos Powers as gods and have very low instances of mutation, and Iron Warriors are known to chop off limbs and replace them with bionics if they show signs of mutation. Every Legion isn't the Black Legion.


Yes, this is entirely true. In fact, the Thousand Sons also hated the mutations brought on by warp influence, and it was the catalyst for them becoming the dust zombies they are now. The reason they are called "Rubric Marines" is due to the spell created by Ahriman called Ahriman's Rubric, a spell designed to halt the mutations of the warp. It backfired spectacularly though, giving us the Rubric Marines and getting Ahriman banished by Magnus. The fact is, it is not the worship of chaos but exposure to the raw energies of the warp that causes the mutations. Not everyone wants this, including among the traitor legions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
the_scotsman wrote:
 SergentSilver wrote:
ccs wrote:
mrFickle wrote:


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle?


It's not thier choice. As soon as they're fully committed to Chaos the spikes just start growing.

And, as a grand cosmic joke, pretty uniformly too.


This is true. It has something to do with the corrupting nature of warp energies, but the "why spikes and horns" part has never been answered.


Because part of the core visual language of the warhammer universe, that then leached into the warhammer 40k universe, is that any opposition to the factions presented as 'the good guys' causes a person to become more subhuman, and sprouting animal parts is the best way to visually convey that.

It's not just marines and not just chaos - if a human rebels because they're influenced by a xenos force, they become blobby and bug-like. The subfactions of the imperium that are the closest to falling into corruption get animalistic traits, like Wulfen. When a techpriest starts to dabble in forbidden heretek, the robots they create go from having a smoother and more humanoid appearance to being spiky robot dogs and dragons and dinosaurs.

Basically every visual medium that wants you to instantly root for the good guy and hate the bad guy does this, it's standard visual language to make your villain appear deformed, sick, less symmetrical, more bestial, have a darker color palette, or appear to violate gender norms.

It's just more obvious in 40k because it's 100% explicit with the setup of chaos. Here's the chaos god of appearing deformed and sick. Here's the two chaos gods of appearing bestial. Here's the chaos god of violating gender norms.


Oh I understand all that, I'm just saying there has never been an in-lore explanation for it. It's just GW saying "well, the warp causes spikes, horns, and highly fashionable baroque styling!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086635.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086635.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models RT-era mutated CSMs a lot, but at the same time I'm thinking of getting a bunch of MkIV Heresy kits and adding them as "clean renegades" to my mostly-spiky chaos collection. Chaos should basically be able to have any aesthetic.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086665.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086665.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
 Insectum7 wrote:
I love the spikes too, and I think it works well for "generic Chaos Marine", but I'm in total agreement that it shouldn't be the only aesthetic. I love the RT-era mutated CSMs a lot, but at the same time I'm thinking of getting a bunch of MkIV Heresy kits and adding them as "clean renegades" to my mostly-spiky chaos collection. Chaos should basically be able to have any aesthetic.


That's what I believe too. Especially since in the lore it states that time works differently in the Eye. It says almost verbatim that while for many Traitor Marines they have been fighting for this war for 10000 years, but for some the HH was recent events. That would mean they could have completely untouched and functional HH gear, potentially only with little corruption by warp energies. Gear that even a Loyalist Marine might pick up after a battle and return to their chapter's Techmarines for ritual cleansing as a valuable relic. Despite what some may believe, it has been shown that in a number of sources that the Imperium does indeed collect artifacts and relics tainted by the warp and cleanses those they deem fit for reuse while destroying those they believe beyond saving. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086675.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models AOS's Chaos is that there, they are their own cultures, nations. They have their own aesthetics, society, history, etc...


In 40k, Chaos is the corrupted version of uncorrupted stuff. Marines but bad, Imperial guard but bad, even Xenos but Bad. And the way to show that something that wasn't corrupted has been corrupted is showing degeneration or a more agresive appareance.

One example of that in fantasy where Dark Elves, High Elves but spikier. Dark Eldar follow a similar aesthetic compared with Craftworld Eldar, compare Kabalite armor with Dire Avenger armor.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086712.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086712.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086722.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086722.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
 Galas wrote:
The thing with AOS's Chaos is that there, they are their own cultures, nations. They have their own aesthetics, society, history, etc...


In 40k, Chaos is the corrupted version of uncorrupted stuff. Marines but bad, Imperial guard but bad, even Xenos but Bad. And the way to show that something that wasn't corrupted has been corrupted is showing degeneration or a more agresive appareance.

One example of that in fantasy where Dark Elves, High Elves but spikier. Dark Eldar follow a similar aesthetic compared with Craftworld Eldar, compare Kabalite armor with Dire Avenger armor.


The imperium of man isn’t corrupted?????

This is the problem with GW three want the models to be good vs bad like night vs day but in the fluff the CSM legions have seen the corruption of the “imperial truth” and although they regret their descent to chaos during the HH they still despite the false emperor.

Table top = simple
Narrative = complex

And they fault to provide a middle ground for those that enjoy both]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086751.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086751.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
the_scotsman wrote:
 SergentSilver wrote:
ccs wrote:
mrFickle wrote:


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle?


It's not thier choice. As soon as they're fully committed to Chaos the spikes just start growing.

And, as a grand cosmic joke, pretty uniformly too.


This is true. It has something to do with the corrupting nature of warp energies, but the "why spikes and horns" part has never been answered.


Because part of the core visual language of the warhammer universe, that then leached into the warhammer 40k universe, is that any opposition to the factions presented as 'the good guys' causes a person to become more subhuman, and sprouting animal parts is the best way to visually convey that.

It's not just marines and not just chaos - if a human rebels because they're influenced by a xenos force, they become blobby and bug-like. The subfactions of the imperium that are the closest to falling into corruption get animalistic traits, like Wulfen. When a techpriest starts to dabble in forbidden heretek, the robots they create go from having a smoother and more humanoid appearance to being spiky robot dogs and dragons and dinosaurs.

Basically every visual medium that wants you to instantly root for the good guy and hate the bad guy does this, it's standard visual language to make your villain appear deformed, sick, less symmetrical, more bestial, have a darker color palette, or appear to violate gender norms.

It's just more obvious in 40k because it's 100% explicit with the setup of chaos. Here's the chaos god of appearing deformed and sick. Here's the two chaos gods of appearing bestial. Here's the chaos god of violating gender norms.


Q: What was that whooshing sound?

A: Someting going over Scotsman's head.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086800.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11086800.page GMT Re:Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models CSM.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11087082.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11087082.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models SM Predator into a CSM Predator, I think it's looking better than the official one]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11087370.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11087370.page GMT Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
ccs wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 SergentSilver wrote:
ccs wrote:
mrFickle wrote:


But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle?


It's not thier choice. As soon as they're fully committed to Chaos the spikes just start growing.

And, as a grand cosmic joke, pretty uniformly too.


This is true. It has something to do with the corrupting nature of warp energies, but the "why spikes and horns" part has never been answered.


Because part of the core visual language of the warhammer universe, that then leached into the warhammer 40k universe, is that any opposition to the factions presented as 'the good guys' causes a person to become more subhuman, and sprouting animal parts is the best way to visually convey that.

It's not just marines and not just chaos - if a human rebels because they're influenced by a xenos force, they become blobby and bug-like. The subfactions of the imperium that are the closest to falling into corruption get animalistic traits, like Wulfen. When a techpriest starts to dabble in forbidden heretek, the robots they create go from having a smoother and more humanoid appearance to being spiky robot dogs and dragons and dinosaurs.

Basically every visual medium that wants you to instantly root for the good guy and hate the bad guy does this, it's standard visual language to make your villain appear deformed, sick, less symmetrical, more bestial, have a darker color palette, or appear to violate gender norms.

It's just more obvious in 40k because it's 100% explicit with the setup of chaos. Here's the chaos god of appearing deformed and sick. Here's the two chaos gods of appearing bestial. Here's the chaos god of violating gender norms.


Q: What was that whooshing sound?

A: Someting going over Scotsman's head.


I just provided the real answer. The answer 'in narrative' if one was ever provided would just be some adhoc justification of the simple, straightforward emotional answer.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11087380.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/797130/11087380.page GMT