<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? GW making a 'classic 40k game' in the mold of 3rd-8th edition.

30k = Horus Heresy
40k = the game up to like 8th edition
41k = post great rift, primarchs coming out of the woodwork etc

So here's an open thread for other Warhammer 40k (30k, 41k) eras you'd like to see rules/models/novels whatever for.

I'd like to see a Warhammer 29k game. Earth's unification, Thunder Warriors, ancient techno beasts, nomad warrior clans, the Emp, rogue psykers, ghosts and demons, you name it. Plus, y'know, a planet we've heard of and kind of care about. Skirmish scale, everything as John Blanche and Grimdark as you can make it. Basically Ash Wastes Necromunda but with new factions.

Other thoughts?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823535.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823535.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
Or, zoom in some. Show us the history of a Hive World, and let us follow its decay. But make it previously unnamed, so unlike Necromunda we can never be sure if it’ll survive.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823541.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823541.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
Then, if you're feeling nihilistic, we can see it all fall apart after Macharius perishes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823544.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823544.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
We'd lose Tau, Necrons, Tyranids, Genestaler Cults.

But on the flipside we'd have the potential for loads of otherwise minor factions to arise and populate the battlefields. Even though we know the Imperium would crush them eventually, there'd be huge creative potential outside of "marines marines and more marines"

GW could even be really sneaky and any super popular factions could do a sneaky "we got crushed but we went and hid and BOOM we reappear in 40K with new evolved designs and a new insight to reconquer all that we lost etc...."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823558.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823558.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
I’d want a series of semi-heretical books written by a misguided Remembrancer. Books which document the art, architecture and that of the species defeated. Or pre-Unification Human Worlds.

Just art, and a whole lot of creativity, and even chances to drop in Easter Eggs.

For instance? The Ymgarl Genestealers. So far as we know, they were the first encountered. Or at least, the first time anyone bothered to document it.

A smaller initial incursion by Vanguard Organisms, stymied in their spread by the warp storms rendering their host planets incapable of inter-system flight? Well that’s a way to drop in “wait….was that a Genestealer Cult?”.

I mean, to the untrained eye, a Hybrid is Just A Mutant. And a Genestealer of any stripe is just another ugly Xenos in dire need of a good stomping.

And you can do a lot there with just impressionistic art (possibly historical, relating to a cult being uncovered and eradicated in the system’s past) and blurry pict captures of some Xenocryptid.

With the coming of the Leagues of Votann? You can really mess with heads. See, they traded Ion Tech with the Tau. And even today, there’s a visual resemblance between Kin and Tau Ion Weaponry.

We know that lineage extends back to the Heresy era at least. Ref?

So have examples of that family of weapons being wielded by Xenos or Far Flung Humans. Might be enough to get some believing it must therefore be its descendants that created the Tau and so on.

All sorts of stuff you can hint and mislead about.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823561.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823561.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
The Imperium is split by the Nova Terra Interregnum and Moirae Schism (mechanicus civil war) leading to the rise of the Ecclesiarchy in the Cataclysm of Souls and then into the Age of Apostasy itself.

It's a more interesting and varied Horus Heresy imo.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823563.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823563.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
38-40k
Where us grognards can continue to enjoy the 40k universe we loved before Primaris Marines and Returning Primarchs started messing everything up.

The game, or at least the fiction, would really benefit from well defined eras. Similar to Battletech.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823565.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823565.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? 40k for stability of the setting. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823569.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823569.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? My stance is: I don't care which era you write about, as long as it's written like these Imperial Armour books which are all kinds of awesome and might be the best and most plausible/ realistic(?) depiction of 40K's grimdark setting.
You really get a feeling of operational and strategic problems and well written battle plans and so on, all making a small campaign on a backwater planet extremely interesting to read.

Meanwhile you have GW campaign books that read like a script of a Michael Bay Film and are just as interesting. Ooh, there are Gorkanauts incoming, let's scream for the emprah and slay them, oh no, it's not working, but ah, Deus Ex Machina, the Knights have arrived! But oh no, now there's a gargant out of nowhere, let's scream for the emprah again! Oh good, we screamed it long enough for the airstike to arrive. But oh no, the Orks have aircrafts, too...

This is probably a tangent to this thread, but my point stands: we don’t really need books about other eras, we just need more good books...
Write an Imperial Armour Book in The Beast arises setting of 32K and make one of these annoying final battles more plausible or explain why the Orks didn't just death star Terra.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823572.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823572.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I'm currently reading the Taros campaign, Imperial Armour 3, before that I read the Doom of Mymeara.
My stance is: I don't care which era you write about, as long as it's written like these Imperial Armour books which are all kinds of awesome and might be the best and most plausible/ realistic(?) depiction of 40K's grimdark setting.
You really get a feeling of operational and strategic problems and well written battle plans and so on, all making a small campaign on a backwater planet extremely interesting to read.

This is probably the least realistic hope in this thread, sadly. Look at how 30k book quality went downhill from second edition on.

Not because the second edition books like Beta-Garmon were awful or anything, but because the first edition ones were as awesome as you describe, which is a tall height to fall from.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823574.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823574.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Ashiraya wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I'm currently reading the Taros campaign, Imperial Armour 3, before that I read the Doom of Mymeara.
My stance is: I don't care which era you write about, as long as it's written like these Imperial Armour books which are all kinds of awesome and might be the best and most plausible/ realistic(?) depiction of 40K's grimdark setting.
You really get a feeling of operational and strategic problems and well written battle plans and so on, all making a small campaign on a backwater planet extremely interesting to read.

Yeah, I've been reading the first 4 or 5 red 30K FW books back in the day. They were that awesome I'd pull them out while sipping wine with my gaming buddy, and we both never touched the 30K game.

As a DG Fan I also listened to Flight of the Eisenstein and was like... this is not as awesome as it sounded when Alan Bligh wrote about it...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823575.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Ashiraya wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I'm currently reading the Taros campaign, Imperial Armour 3, before that I read the Doom of Mymeara.
My stance is: I don't care which era you write about, as long as it's written like these Imperial Armour books which are all kinds of awesome and might be the best and most plausible/ realistic(?) depiction of 40K's grimdark setting.
You really get a feeling of operational and strategic problems and well written battle plans and so on, all making a small campaign on a backwater planet extremely interesting to read.

The degradation is a great tragedy.
Forgeworld gave such a realistic and gritty impression of the universe, you could taste it.
GW's newer books meanwhile feel little better than a showcase of their newest models with some vague and shallow lore.
Like the newest Tallarn book, which takes a planet apparently characterised by an atmosphere so toxic and caustic that basically only heavily armoured vehicles can be used, and depicted large numbers of forces fighting exposed even without helmets. Just because that's the kit they sell and they didn't bother taking out the unhelmeted men from the studio, let alone converting anything. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823577.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823577.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
You'd have Necrons, Eldar, and Orks. All at their strongest. You'd also get to see what a fully intact C'tan can do or what the Old Ones could do before they left the galaxy.

Might be a harder to sell without any humans involved, but still a great era.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823582.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823582.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
Warhammer 50k.

After the Tyranids ate 90% of the galaxy.
After the Nids were lured into the Eye of Terror creating something even worse.
After everything...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/232494.page

A pitch from back in 2008]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823608.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823608.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Eilif wrote:

The game, or at least the fiction, would really benefit from well defined eras. Similar to Battletech.

I really like this idea. It could be a move away from Legends to an Era style of game.

One unifying ruleset, but one where the only usable units where those in 7th or earlier (with the possible inclusion of characters from that setting even if the model was made later, like Ciaphas Cain.) This version would also allow for custom and converted models as many of the models no longer exist.

Then you have the current version which is basically as is with Legends and whatnot. Or only to some extent as some tech no longer exists.

You could have a Unification Wars Era too that has rules for Aeldari and Orks, but doesn't step on HH's toes while not preventing you from doing HH stuff if you want to.

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Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Thinking about an old, old idea.

Warhammer 50k.

After the Tyranids ate 90% of the galaxy.
After the Nids were lured into the Eye of Terror creating something even worse.
After everything...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/232494.page

A pitch from back in 2008

This would be cool as a one off campaign book or something. Like a vision of a possible future and rules to modify current 40k to play in it.

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Kid_Kyoto wrote:

I'd like to see a Warhammer 29k game. Earth's unification, Thunder Warriors, ancient techno beasts, nomad warrior clans, the Emp, rogue psykers, ghosts and demons, you name it. Plus, y'know, a planet we've heard of and kind of care about. Skirmish scale, everything as John Blanche and Grimdark as you can make it. Basically Ash Wastes Necromunda but with new factions.

I would love a game like this, but I don't think the setting is popular enough to ever get an actual tabletop release.

That being said, I would love it if they made a dudes on a map board game where you play as the various Warlords of Terra trying to conquer the world.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lastly. I think it would be pretty interesting to have something based on the War In Heaven. Both pre and post transformation Necrons, Krork, ancient Aeldari, C'Tan and old ones abound.

Not sure the best way to go about this one, again, probably far too niche of a setting for a tabletop game, and too large for a skirmish game. Maybe a space conquest fleet style game? Though at that point, it would have to be pretty damn amazing to want to make me play it over something like Twilight Imperium.

Hmm... not sure what to do with that one, but it would be cool. Maybe just a book or something would be better? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823614.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823614.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823617.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823617.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? GW did a different time period I want to see creativity and originality within the line. I don't just want to see Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and MAYBE Chaos in different styles.

We've got that - we've got mountains of that.

I want to see what AoS has in a sci-fi setting - more variety; creativity; original ideas within the GW ecosystem]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823638.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823638.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Calbear wrote:How about the War In Heaven?

You'd have Necrons, Eldar, and Orks. All at their strongest. You'd also get to see what a fully intact C'tan can do or what the Old Ones could do before they left the galaxy.

Might be a harder to sell without any humans involved, but still a great era.

Overread wrote:For me if GW did a different time period I want to see creativity and originality within the line. I don't just want to see Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and MAYBE Chaos in different styles.

We've got that - we've got mountains of that.

I want to see what AoS has in a sci-fi setting - more variety; creativity; original ideas within the GW ecosystem

I also think a game set in the War in Heaven would be a great idea and it would allow the creative team to go all out as the time difference is so vast there is now way one would effect the other.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823640.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823640.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? GW did that whole alliances push one edition where everyone got loads of allies and Tyranids were on their own.

Only in that case of the War in Heaven its Necrons VS loads of Old One created factions.

That's why I favoured the idea of the Imperium shattering in 40K and letting other races get their heads up for once. It's a means to telling stories about other factoins that aren't bound to a single alliance/powerbase.

War i Heaven also has potential at filling gaps in the story that honestly the story is stronger for in not filling in. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823645.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823645.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

KingGarland wrote:

Calbear wrote:How about the War In Heaven?

You'd have Necrons, Eldar, and Orks. All at their strongest. You'd also get to see what a fully intact C'tan can do or what the Old Ones could do before they left the galaxy.

Might be a harder to sell without any humans involved, but still a great era.

Overread wrote:For me if GW did a different time period I want to see creativity and originality within the line. I don't just want to see Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and MAYBE Chaos in different styles.

We've got that - we've got mountains of that.

I want to see what AoS has in a sci-fi setting - more variety; creativity; original ideas within the GW ecosystem

I also think a game set in the War in Heaven would be a great idea and it would allow the creative team to go all out as the time difference is so vast there is now way one would effect the other.

I think you'd end up with a lot of the same downsides as the Horus Heresy, but arguably worse. In addition to stealing some cool mystery from the setting, you'd have to pin down enough details about the conflict that you'd risk raising a lot of new questions or just creating contradictions.

The scope and scale of the War in Heaven is also so crazy that I'm not sure it lends itself to a particularly exciting/interesting story. It's the space fantasy equivalent of final season anime nonsense where everyone is so powerful it's impossible to have tangible stakes or for anything to have weight. In M41, you can have a story about dudes sneaking around in the mud so they can try to plant a bomb on an ammo depot. In the War In Heaven, you can't really tell the equivalent of that story because everyone is too busy throwing suns at eachother and using Mephiston level psychic feats as standard attacks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823649.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823649.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? 40K setting has insane scale also. 30K too for that matter

At some point the numbers just become a backdrop of a concept as they are so far outside of our regular experiences and understanding that they can't be related too directly.

So I'm sure you could find loads of stories within the setting that don't involve worlds being shattered apart by godlike powers. Consider that the Necrons in 40K are the same Necrons that won the war - a bit rustier and worn out; but the same ones and they've clearly got regular armies and armed forces to fight with.

If it was all god-like war engines and such the the Necrons wouldn't have bothered with transferance. Why convert your people if the only reliable weapons are god-scale.

My impression is that there were insane scale weapons, but also lots of regular "boots on ground combat". I think likely promoted by the fact that the Old Ones tactic seemed to mostly rely on uplifting other races to fight for them. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823654.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823654.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Wyldhunt wrote:

The scope and scale of the War in Heaven is also so crazy that I'm not sure it lends itself to a particularly exciting/interesting story. It's the space fantasy equivalent of final season anime nonsense where everyone is so powerful it's impossible to have tangible stakes or for anything to have weight. In M41, you can have a story about dudes sneaking around in the mud so they can try to plant a bomb on an ammo depot. In the War In Heaven, you can't really tell the equivalent of that story because everyone is too busy throwing suns at eachother and using Mephiston level psychic feats as standard attacks.

You could possibly make an interesting card game around it as long as you committed to the idea that things like Shahrazad were the kind of baseline effects you designed the game around. Use Worlds in place of Lands and make their destruction a core element and we're getting somewhere.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823655.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823655.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Overread wrote:
If it was all god-like war engines and such the the Necrons wouldn't have bothered with transferance. Why convert your people if the only reliable weapons are god-scale.

Because it was sold to them as a way to escape their extremely fragile, short-lived and cancer-ridden biological bodies. (And the C'tan did it to get the Necrons to let them eat their souls freely). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823656.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823656.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Tawnis wrote:

Eilif wrote:

The game, or at least the fiction, would really benefit from well defined eras. Similar to Battletech.

Indeed. I don't think GW would go for it since it's the date and state of the game are so attached to the miniatures they have in current production, but it's a nice idea and it would give GW a reason to revisit various eras in 40k's past.

We kind of have a bit of precedence for this in the AoS and Old World split and in the 30k/40k split, but those are all separate games with currently-produced miniatures.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823674.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823674.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823683.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823683.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823686.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823686.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if War in Heaven could work as a campaign book with existing models?

Necrons are the only ones' that do have models for that era though, no? We don't even really know if Krorks are actually orks and if they are, they should look very different.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823687.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823687.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
Also Necrons would depend on when in the War in Heaven you set it; plus the issue that even if you set it after the Transferance, the Necrons should look shiny and new; not half damaged which most of them are now. You'd also likely lose some forms. Destroyers and Flayed Ones appear to be errors that arise much later as a result of their minds going insane after so long being a machine without a soul.

So even Necrons would need a whole new model line. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823689.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823689.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? GW still has the artistic chops for that. But some of the necromunda stuff gives me hope.

I'd also like really good books like the old Forgeworld books for the Great Crusade itself, with plenty of wacky new Xenos and all the old favourites too, along with some of the human civilisations crushed by the crusade. Amazing scope for a game there.
But again, I'm skeptical that GW exploring that would produce stuff I actually like, and I'm sure it'd be way too focused on Primarchs for my liking.

So I think what I like the best is the pre-Great Rift "classic" setting and possibly also something in the middle between the Heresy and the classic, where you can have fun with a new status quo.

But for most of these, I believe we as players would be better off exploring it ourselves and being creative than waiting for GW to feed stuff to us.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823692.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823692.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
50k might still be an interesting idea but I don't know how you'd make it work. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823720.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823720.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? GW would evolve the main players in the setting and how that would change the design language of factions.

You can tell whatever story you want, but visually what are you telling.

30K already has issues in that a LOT of its range basically is just alternative sculpts of concepts we have in 40K. Heck the Custodes still directly share models and a good many of the 30K Imperial vehicles are things stolen from 40K forgeworld releases that have been on the market for decades.
A lot of the Mechanicum models would work perfectly with the Mechanicus etc..

There are subtle differences, but its not a big design language nor even army composition change up.

That I think is the big issue - would GW be able to make it part of the setting whilst at the same time changing enough to make it stand out on its own.

That's why I always lean toward the idea of a setting change that lets there be new factions within the game. That easily allows there to be a fresh new design language without just taking an existing faction and changing everything about them "just because". ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823722.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823722.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Overread wrote:
Krorks would basically be Ork Space Marines from what I can recall - organised, smart, brutal and efficient. No ramshackle football hooligans. Oh and much bigger took.

We have basically no lore on Krorks. 99% of what I can find out about them online is memefests from r/grimdank and the like where people hype each other to the clouds imagining how OP they surely must be. What little lore we even have about them is far from certain (for example, it's not at all confirmed that the Orkoid monstrosity Fabius found was a Krork, only that Fabius speculated it may have been).

Considering how awful the Beast novels were and how damaging I think they were on Ork lore, I kind of am not very excited about the notion of seeing anything more about the Krork.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823729.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823729.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
The six Sororitas Matriarchs, Sebastian Thor, Vandire, Bucharris and maybe a Daughters unit and a Brides unit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823731.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823731.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
But Battlefleet Great Crusade... with Crusade Fleets, Orks, Eldar, other funky Xenos that might be a lot of fun and way to do the that era with a fairly light lift (compared to launching a 28mm game).

Epic Great Crusade might also be a good direction.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PenitentJake wrote:
I'd like to see the Age of Apostasy, which could be done as a campaign setting )I think) rather than a stand-alone game.

The six Sororitas Matriarchs, Sebastian Thor, Vandire, Bucharris and maybe a Daughters unit and a Brides unit.

IIRC they were were originally the Daughters of the Emperor then changed to the Brides, which may indicate other changes in their roles as well.

But yeah, could work as a campaign, especially if set on Terra.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823788.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823788.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
There were rumors years and years ago of Battlefleet Heresy set during well the Horus Heresy. Which always seemed really boring to me.

It's my one big fear if GW brings BFG back because they've locked their specialist team outside of 40k and the other other setting they've formally got is 30K; and I just don't see GW starting a 3rd "age" of the setting for a specialist side game. Heck even the new Epic game suffers from being locked to 30K. Fantastic models, but we know there will never be a single xenos appear ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823795.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823795.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? LI is Heresy instead of 40k, and indeed the same reason the original Titanicus was also set in 30k.

It's cheaper to have 2 or 3 factions fight themselves than to make a dozen of them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823797.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823797.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? WHFB brought back as fiddlier, more complex adaptations of their former selves that eschew streamlining in favor of a 'more is more' approach, I can't get all that excited about a possible BFG reboot.

The original BFG is still a great game, well supported in the modern era via 3D printing and third-party casts, that makes up for a few dated design elements through an efficient and evocative design-for-effect ethos that modern GW just does not understand or appreciate at all.

If GW brings back BFG as Battlefleet Heresy, dollars to donuts that means a minutiae-focused ruleset with bigger models all locked to the heresy setting and I can't help but see that as a net negative.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823836.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823836.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

catbarf wrote:
The original BFG is still a great game, well supported in the modern era via 3D printing and third-party casts, that makes up for a few dated design elements through an efficient and evocative design-for-effect ethos that modern GW just does not understand or appreciate at all.

Can you explain more what you mean by this in detail, if you forgive me imposing?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823837.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823837.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

catbarf wrote:
After seeing both Epic and WHFB brought back as fiddlier, more complex adaptations of their former selves...

Necromunda also...

I really wanted to like Necromunda, but by the 4th "Gang War" supplement I saw where things were going and bailed.

Now we're having a summer campaign of the old rules (NCE version).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823851.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823851.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? BFG uses lookuo tables for attack resolution it's practically the most outdated game GW has ever produced

Still fun though

Especially Necromunda I think suffered from its own success. GW has wanted to capitalis and turn that popularity into profit, and that's meant printing more and more expansion books for it. Which has over time driven the game into ridiculous heights of nonsense.

Titanicus is still a smooth and great game, largely because I'm sure it didn't sell as well and GW didn't bother writing a million supplements.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823865.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823865.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
The original was a well received and is still a well regarded game. And indeed gaming experience. But, with only one expansion and very sporadic releases after that, it floundered.

When the current version launched? It was clear the release schedule was intended to maintain ongoing interest, and of course purchases. I said at the time that whilst a bit 40K? If each book came with sufficient content? I’d be cool with it.

And they certainly did that. Not just expanding mission and campaign types, but creating loads and loads and loads of new background. And so it’s stayed in production for nearly a decade.

The volume of books always seems to have been the plan this time around,]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823867.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823867.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Ashiraya wrote:

catbarf wrote:
The original BFG is still a great game, well supported in the modern era via 3D printing and third-party casts, that makes up for a few dated design elements through an efficient and evocative design-for-effect ethos that modern GW just does not understand or appreciate at all.

Can you explain more what you mean by this in detail, if you forgive me imposing?

Take gunnery as an example.

Battlefleet Gothic is a game where lore-wise an Imperial cruiser could be armed with varying assortments of missiles, macro-cannons, plasma batteries, and other big guns, but because the underlying identity is that they fling a thing from A to B they are simply given a range and firepower rating and covered under the mechanics for 'weapons batteries'. To actually shoot them, you look at a simple table and find the row for your weapon battery strength, then go across to the column for the aspect (closing, moving away, moving abeam) of your target class (capital ship, escort), and the result is how many dice you roll against the target's armor. If you're within 15cm you shift left one column, which is good. If you're beyond 30cm you shift right, which is bad. If you're under Lock-On orders you get to re-roll failures, and if you're crippled or under other special orders you roll half dice.

It sounds like a lot, and from what I gather people hear 'table' and imagine Avalon Hill CRTs of old. But it's not like that at all. In practice, you spend no more than ten seconds assessing the situation, five seconds to look up how many dice you need to roll with no brainpower involved, and then make one roll of rarely more than 10 dice, and you're done. It makes combat heavily dependent on positioning and maneuver, without requiring a lot of stacking +1/-1s or re-rolling 1s. And it also provides a lot of levers that the designers can work with to differentiate the factions without tons of bespoke weapon profiles or special rules. A Tyranid pyro-acid battery is a weapons battery that is short-ranged but causes extra fire critical hits. Eldar weapons batteries always get a left shift. Chaos weapons batteries are older and more sophisticated than their Imperial counterparts so typically have longer range on the profile. Space Marine bombardment cannons determine their dice like weapons batteries, but do damage on a 4+ regardless of the target's armor. Simple and effective.

Then when ships take damage, first the hits get applied to shields. But you don't have to track shield state, you just place a physical blast marker in contact with the target's base for each hit that gets absorbed by shields. Each blast marker in contact consequently reduces the currently active shields by 1. A ship thus regenerates its shields by flying out of the blast markers on its own turn. Flying into areas of residual explosions reduces your effective shield strength, and ships in close proximity to one another risk mutual shield loss from incoming fire (if the market touches both bases). No explicit rules are needed for any of these things, they're natural consequences of shield damage being represented by persistent two-dimensional tokens on the table.

The whole game is like this. BFG employs a lot of clever 'shortcuts' that might seem unintuitive or simplistic at first, but keep the game moving while still translating a complex game state into appropriate outcomes. It's about the big picture, about what happens when you out-predict your opponent and your point-blank raking broadside down the throat of their flagship triggers a warp core detonation, not about the caliber of the guns that do it.

Meanwhile, Legions Imperialis individually models each sponson-mounted heavy bolter on a Predator with its own stat profile, subject to several special rules in addition to any provided by the choice of faction. The Old World requires you to keep track of the result of your charge roll since it produces an initiative bonus in the subsequent combat phase, and every basic infantry unit has 3-5 USRs. Horus Heresy has brought back multiple psychology types and a whole slew of both USRs and bespoke special rules on top of its 40K 7th Ed core. These are games that work and are fun in their own right, but are undeniably more complicated, fiddly, and detail-focused than Epic/WHFB/40K that preceded them.

So if GW ever brought BFG back, I would expect it to be another special-rule-driven experience where each ship has multiple special rules and/or USRs, where combat is the more familiar but significantly slower roll to hit -> roll to penetrate armor -> roll for damage paradigm, and the areas where this detail-driven approach gets unwieldy (like trying to model those range/size/aspect factors as modifiers to a single to-hit roll) would be simplified at the cost of tactical depth. I would expect a game that downplays maneuver, and derives its tactics from weapon-target pairing and employment of layers of rules and special abilities instead. In short, GW's current design philosophy for its specialist games is the opposite of what made BFG good in the first place, and consequently I'd have low hopes for a reboot.

That's my essay, thanks for coming, I would also like to see a Badab War classic-40K but for similar reasons would be wary of the implementation.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823886.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823886.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
I am a big fan of Horus Heresy in general (though admittedly less so its current edition) but I think BFG is very elegant for what it is and is better served that way.

I agree if BFG was revived it would also be altered like you describe, because I think it's just what the rules writers are used to now, and they feel it gives them more room to differentiate small, well, differences in the model they sell.

I still would want BFG back if only for the 2026-quality miniatures!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823902.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823902.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
You also had Lance Batteries, which were a straight 1D6 per point, hitting on a 4+.

Torpedoes were launched from the front, and unless Eldar Torpedoes, would travel in a straight line until shot down, they hit something, or moved off the board. Also, not every Torpedo in a salvo would hit. So the salvo would deduct the number of hits, and keep on trucking.

The game really centred on maintaining your line, planning manoeuvres well in advance and the strict limits on how nimble a ship was as they got larger.

This allowed the comparatively undergunned but incredibly slippery Eldar to compete against even the biggest, slabbiest of ships.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823905.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823905.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? OP by dint of being the "counter-meta" faction.
Next to Necrons who broke the meta by just being faster, more maneuverable, more durable, and more heavily armed than any other ships of comparable points

Personally I think I do prefer a system of modifiers to BFG's table system. I just like the ability to memorise half a dozen modifiers (which I'm good at doing) followed by some Qwik Maffs (which I'm also good at doing) and being able to know what's up.
VS having to keep a look-up table to hand to refer to replace the Qwik Maffs, and perhaps a few fewer modifiers.

But I'd have to sit down and work map out the comparative maths perhaps of what could be achieved with some modifiers. Certainly you couldn't just replace the column shifts with +/- 1 as modifiers skew weirdly depending on the to-hit score (which in BFG is normally the target's armour value).

Certainly GW's approach of giving every particular weapon mount it's own specific statline is massive overbloat. Although they have been backing off of that in 40k now.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823911.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823911.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
The use of the table simply (1) resolves that calculation faster than it would take to gather up all the dice, determine the required value, roll them, and count the results, and (2) normalizes the outcome to an average value, limiting the randomness to the damage roll, so that you are much less likely to get an extreme result from shooting than if both components were fully random. This matters a lot at long range and bad angles, where an 8-firepower broadside being reduced to 2 dice means it isn't possible to cripple a cruiser with a lucky roll.

You can very easily replace the gunnery table with a to-hit roll. It just makes the game worse. I'd expect a modern reinterpretation would ditch the gunnery table, but I do think it's unfair that some folks write the game off entirely because it actually uses an intelligently designed set of play aids, as if we've all Stockholm Syndromed ourselves into preferring gakky convoluted rules that we just have to memorize.

The holofield rule on the other hand is a known problem, because a single right column shift against weapon batteries is way less impactful than a flat 2+ save against lances. I am partial to the community-made Remastered list that gives Eldar conventional shields in addition to a weakened holofield rule, but YMMV.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823933.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823933.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823937.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823937.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I don’t recall Holofields giving a save against Lances at all?

Yep, 2+ save versus everything except Batteries.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823943.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823943.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
I should re read the rulebook.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823948.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823948.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
Puts me in mind of BSG’s magnificent flak screen.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823950.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11823950.page GMT Re:30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11824005.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11824005.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover? GW eventually takes legends and does something like they did with warhammer the old world.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11824014.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11824014.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?
Pre-Imperium humans, pre-Fall Eldar. Men of Iron. All sorts of crazy new aliens to potentially work with.

If you're looking to expand the setting as a whole, late Dark Age of Technology has a lot of space to work with.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11824040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11824040.page GMT 30k, 40k 41k, what other eras would you like to see GW cover?

BorderCountess wrote:
Is no one going to say things like the Dark Age of Technology?

Pre-Imperium humans, pre-Fall Eldar. Men of Iron. All sorts of crazy new aliens to potentially work with.

If you're looking to expand the setting as a whole, late Dark Age of Technology has a lot of space to work with.

People already complain that 30k explores stuff that they'd rather want unexplored (I prefer 30k to 40k, so I definitely shake my head at it, but those people do exist).

Imagine how much that would explode if they delved into DAoT.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11824045.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/819008/11824045.page GMT