every now and then it works  if my reserve rolls work out.  every ssquad has a homer so i like to drop my shooting units in pods close to the enemy and then bring in the assaulting units right on top of them in the next turn.

in tactics deathwing is really limited by it's options. no matter what you do you will have a small army(good on the bank account though)

if you take land raiders or multples there of you have a huge points sink for very  few models. there is also far to much on the table that can take out AV14 for me to run the in small games(below 3,000 points)

dreads can be effective and annoying,  especially in drop pods, but they don't tend ot be very resiliant

IMO terminators are your best option because than can both shoot and assault effectively and are generaly the most versitile unit but in the end it really depends on your preference.

on the table you must utilize terrain to limit the return fire other than that the tactic is simple in most cases-focus on a small section of the board or units, overwhelm it and then move to the next.

my currrent 1850 deathwing is:

i have enough un used stuff  i could easily bump it up over 3,000

ok just to run the numbers by you

i have been playing DW for several years and i have tried numerous variation-podding dreads, raiders etc...

i know 2 other DW players who min/max the way you highlight-one runs 2 chaplains in 2 5 man assault squads with FC and 4 regulars with 2 assault cannons each for 6 squads of 5, the other runs 5 5 man squads with 2 assault cannons and a librarian with retinue with 2 assault cannons-all with tank hunter(12 assault cannons for those who are counting).  while both armis are effective...and very cookie cutter. the main issue i have is that i do not play that way.

by the issues

10 man squads-

my original list of 3 10 man squads and a couple dreads worked well, i came in in the top 30 at the seattle GT(8 assault cannons in that list)

from my experience 5 man squads are worthless they die or go below half  to easily. 10 man squads also let me concentrait more fire and survive assaults eaiser as  well. i will always use 10 man squads if i can.

the assault squad-

first it is not the only big squad i have-the command squad is also a 10 man unit. the only reason the others are not is because they need to fit into pods. they are the sacrificial  lambs used to get my teleport homer close to the enemy for when my assault squad comes in......when it works, it works very well.

secondly, after being on the recieving end of most CC units from other armies i find normal terminators lacking in survivability due to thier I1 powerfist. sure it's great when it hits and ithas high strength but that does me little good when the unit is all dead beacuse i have to wait to swing.

a 10 man asssault squad also tends to scare the crap outa the enemy especially things like guard with camoline(who i play against quite often) who get an uber cover save making assault cannons no different than a bolter.. an assault squad can seriously hurt them where shooting at them only gives them a better save.

the command squad retinue

as you noted my command squad has furious charge. it does so for a specific reason-the librarian. he cannot take a different vet skill than the squad and it wolud be worthless with tank hunter as it fails to take advantage of his higher intiative. the assault cannons doo well enough on thier own but now the librarian goes at I6 and S5 on the charge with 5 attacks and a force weapon. thus making furious charge something useful for him and by extention his retinue to have.

the list as i have it has been very effective. i win games even with very few models on the table because my units are so big, high points cost and resliant.

if i were to run all my deathwing models minus the land raiders i would have nothing but 10 man squads-40 terminators-2 in 10 man squads with assault cannons, my 10 man retnue with assault cannons, librarian and my 10 man assault squad, plus my 2 dreads in pods (one venerable with tank hunter). at 2,600 points.

• 2 strength 9 shots

• 1 twin linked strength 10 shot

• 1 twin linked strength 9 shot

• 1 strength 9 shot

• 1 strength 8 shot

This is already not true with skimmer-heavy Eldar armies.  I have no problem standing off 31" from AC terminators with my falcons and plinking them with starcannons and pulse lasers where they can't shoot back.  Expect the situation to become more common after the new codex Eldar.

The one problem that Assault Cannons can't address: how do I shoot that tank that's 25" away?

Entirely incorrect.  Well, if your opponents have half a brain anyways. 
If there ever was any army that was tailor made for taking down skimmer fleets, it was godzilla nids.  But Termies are a close second.
Particularly with pods.   Even nearly invulnerable Falcons will be hurting after taking 2 ACs and 4 Stormbolters to the rear armor.   Actually, you can nearly double up on each one, so for two of your falcons they are taking 2 more ACs, and possibly squeezing in the other 4 Stormbolters on your rear armor as well.
The Falcons will at minimum be not firing, and could quite possibly have been immobilized or have weapons blown off.  If they are immobilized they will die next turn, and if you get all the weapons, you can safely eliminate the rest of the army with ease, considering how much the ACs and even Stormbolters excel against Eldar.

This isn't even including the invariable dreads with Heavy Flamers baking squads, or the TLLC&ML tank hunters which can add fire.

As for missions where deep striking is not in play, perhaps you might just want to read the rules before posting.
Also, I am not 100% sure, but if you run the numbers, and have the termies walking from deployment line until they get in range, they should beat out the triple Las Pred.

The reason you can't find it is because the mistake was mine in reading your post.  Thought you were saying the mission didn't allow it, not that it was ill advisable (though I can't think of many missions that you would want to drop on the objective, as opposed to dropping when you could do the most damage, then walking to the objective)

For the Falcon, I hadn't done the math.  Damn.  Nearly the best falconkillers in the game still don't do that well against it.  That Falcon is damnably insane. Less than 1 glancing roll per squad! 
Though admittably, I think the cyclone would do much, much worse.

As for the Pred, it should be 36" away at the start of the game (if deployed at the very back of the board.)
Move up 12" over two turns would put it in range.  Of course, the idea of a triple las pred gunning across an open table for a duel with termies is pretty far fetched in general.  I mean, really, who takes triple las preds?

Or the Prisms with the same survivabillity, and ability to put a serous hurting on any unit that deepstrikes from up to 60" out... but I digress.

I haven't read through the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been covered already.  I noticed that someone had asked for how the stats for the AC's were tabulated.  Didn't notice anyone else stepping through it, so here's the answer in case it hasn't been covered.

Obviously, the desire is to get a rending hit vs any armor as this gives you an effective 'strength 12' hit (or, 13 if you're a tankhunter).  So, in order to find what the average number of rending hits is, we look to the following formula:

One assault cannon: 4 shots x 2/3 chance to hit = 8/3 hits

8/3 hits x 1/6 chance to rend vs armor = 8/18, or 4/9 chance to rend

Seeing as how you've got 2 assault cannons per squad, this gives us a total chance of 8/9 to get a rending result when firing at an armored target. (roughly an 89% chance per volley).

Not certain odds, but a good sight better than most in the game.

• ASSAULT CANNONS ARE STILL THE BEST GUN IN THE GAME. This really isnt open for argument, it simply is the best allcomers gun in the game so far as we know.
  

• The more wounds in the army granted by the inclusion of terminators, the less prone we are to fail due to attrition.

• Landraiders are a points sink.

• Assault terminators are sub par when compared to assault cannon wielding terminators.

• Dreadnoughts with twin-linked lascannons and missile launcher are greater than a terminator squad equiped with cyclones for the purposes of fire superiority.

ether dude wrote:Remember that powerfists can be turned off in the even that you charge something squishy

dude21890 wrote:Codicier w/ Force weapon, fear of the darkness