<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "SoB Assault help"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "SoB Assault help"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net SoB Assault help SoB for a while. I have read the tacts posted by St.John and others. I use the acts of faith.
I am getting slottered by assaulters. I have been playing aginst a eldar @ 1000 pts. I set up the battle squad firing lines. Sob are close range rapid fire army. 12" or less. At that range I am getting assaulted. 6" move, get shot at. Then I am assaulted.

Flankers really mess things up. They would get into assault. Then I am locked in combat and start getting hurt. My last opponent got his wraithlord in the combat, so I can't shoot at it.
I ran the army as footsloggers once, replacing vehicles with Heavy weapon units. I made the mistake that bolters can't move and shoot 24". With this mistake I still got killed off.
The jump troops seraphim have S and T of 3. Difficult to wound opponents. I make sure the vehicles move to make it more difficult to be assaulted. I use Dominion with flamers and a unit with meltas normally riding in a immulators.
All players try to exploit the opponent's army weakness and avoid their strengths. Avoiding the SoB rapidfire battle squads.
I am not just reacting to my eldar opponent. Orks,Necrons,DH,DA. The IG player has a lot of tanks and support weapons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076302.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076302.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help
T-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076362.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076362.page GMT SoB Assault help
For 5 points a pop, the Book of St. Lucius basically makes all your girls immune to the aftereffects of assault-- not only that, but you can throw it on your canonness and practically forget about it while your whole army gets Ld10 Stubborn.

The rest comes down to faith powers. When it comes down to it, a wraithlord is a T8 marine with an extra attack. 3+ invulnerable saves can shrug off the little damage it does, and it has no invulnerable saves to deal with your various S6 power weapons in the case that you manage to roll a 6.

The reality of the situation, though, is that there is no way a wraithlord should be getting to your front lines without getting melta'd or exorcised off the table. Exorcist launchers RAPE wraithlords and other MCs.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076496.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076496.page GMT SoB Assault help
Frgsinwntr told me to run the jump cannoness duo of

jump pack Cannoness with 2+ save, book of st lucius, blessed weapon, inferno pistol, frag grenades

Jump pack Cannoness with 2+ save, book of st lucius, master crafted eviserator, ignore first insta kill wound

pretty good as counter assault except against the really hard stuff like assault terminators. You can use acts of faith to gain a 2+ invulnerable save, get 2+ strength so the eviserator is strength 8 for insta killing marine characters, or oblits or wounding wraith lords.

Wraith lords should be getting taken out by Exorcists before they get your Sisters.

Run your Sisters in Rhinos and use keep them together so two units can double tap a unit wiping it out.
10 Sisters with Melta gun, Heavy flamer, Veteran Superior with Book of St. Lucius in a Rhino with EA + Smokes is pretty good.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076593.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076593.page GMT SoB Assault help SoB squad 12 inches away.

As others have noted, Exorcists are all kinds of awesome.

So are Immolators, but if you've been reading St. John's stuff you've heard enough about them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076879.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076879.page GMT SoB Assault help 999 points. Sisters of Battle list ; 2 Immolators,1 Rhino,1 Exorcist

HQ {260*Total Points} Total faith points :5
Canoness (115 pts total )
Blessed weapon (30pts) Book of St Lucius (5pts) Inferno pistol (15pts),Cloak(20)

Celestain Retinue: 5 Sisters (65pts) 2 Flamers (12pts) Sister Superior: Sword, Bolt pistol
Immolator ,Smoke(68) (unit and immulator 145 pts)

10 Battle Sisters (110pts) Melta gun (10),Flamer(6) ( 145 pts Unit) *down graded heavy flamer
Veteran Sister Superior (14pts) Book of St. Lucius (5pts)

Troops
10 Battle Sisters (110pts) Heavy flamer (12pts) Melta gun.(10pts) (204 pts Unit)
Veteran Sister Superior (14pts) Book of St. Lucius (5pts)
Rhino,smoke (53pts)

Dominion Squad (5 sisters) 3 X Flamers (27pts)
Immolator,(65) ,Smoke(3) (68pts) [total 150 pts]

Retributor Squad X5 (55), 2 X Multi Meltas (50) {105 Points}

1 Exorcist Vehicle

Automatically Appended Next Post:
last opponent;Eldar; waveserpant w/ fire dragons,infiltrating snipers, flanking scorpions, Dire avenger unit. Wrathlord (sometimes 2 warwalkers) HQ 3 models with a spellcaster (:guide,doom.)
Other armies: Orks,necron,D hunters,IG heavy with tanks or support lasercannons,Dark Angels

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't understand the V shape attack? 2 rhinos v shape with a squad between.unload troops.
If the unit moves it can only shoot 12" . Shoot through my own unit. The back ranks are going to have a shorter range being in the rear. Then load up the unit back into the rhino. If you are 12" away. A unit can assault the rhino with grenade or powerfist.
Opponents don't line up to be shot at. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076955.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1076955.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help
Rhino Sisters Rhino
___\ ________ /
____\--2" max--/

Why? Your opponent has to keep away 1" from your models. So effectively there's a 2" (plus width of the base) invisible forcefield between 2 of your units so close to each other that your enemy's models can't pass. Also you're not shooting through your own unit, so there's no cover save (unless your own positioning sucks). This is kind of the FoF for SM/SoB and I would not use it in a friendly game. But it's totally legal and will score you a win in a tourney possibly...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1077942.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1077942.page GMT SoB Assault help

resinmann wrote: I make sure the vehicles move to make it more difficult to be assaulted.All players try to exploit the opponent's army weakness and avoid their strengths. Avoiding the SoB rapidfire battle squads.I am not just reacting to my eldar opponent. Orks,Necrons,DH,DA. The IG player has a lot of tanks and support weapons.

Any player will try to play on your weaknesses

From what you've written, it sounds like you're playing their game rather than trying to impose yourself on their army. Sisters (in fact most 40k armies)work most effectively when focused on one part of an enemy force. Use your Transports to block los on each other, with the lead vehicle popping smoke, with any luck you should be able to unload two squads worth of boltguns and flamers into one side of your opponents army either eliminating them or drastically weakening them, thus preventing any counter assaults. If one squad does get caught up, don't worry too much. Re-position your remaining units so that when combat ends you can blast the surviving enemy units, or use the engaged squad as a tarpit (Even at T3, a 3++ save is very hard to get through) whilst the rest of your units go on to other targets.

Finally, Sisters really come into their own at 1500+pts. One Exorcist is an annoyance for your opponent, three is a nightmare (but will bring accusations of cheese).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1077980.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1077980.page GMT SoB Assault help AV russes that sit at a board edge)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078032.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078032.page GMT SoB Assault help MM Immo's. It loses the cool rule from Immos (Move 12 and fire) and just becomes a hard target.
3 Exorcists on the other hand do two things. One: They bomb the crap out of armor, MEQ and anything else the moves. If you ran out of targets, your last worry is whether exorcists are effective or not, it's what's your next opponent because you must have tabled your current one.
Two: For 135, they attract an inordinate amount of fire from some opponents (who fear them). This allows girls to get where they need to get.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078714.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078714.page GMT SoB Assault help
Also, anything that could deal with two exorcists could deal with three just as well, but may be less effective against a high-speed immolator packed with Ld10 Stubborn sisters with melta firepower who'll bail out and return fire.

And you get another faith point.

Points/power, the exorcists take it, however, I must admit, i'm just not a fan of only getting 3 AV13 tanks from your heavy support, being spoilt on the new guard codex.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078837.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078837.page GMT SoB Assault help 2: Exorcists can actually do something to LR and AV14, although this is not their best role. D6 Str 8 shots, AP1 means they can destroy even on a glance.
IMHO: Exorcists are probably one of the most points-effective Heavy slots in the game. 48" Str 8 AP1, D6 Shots is a god send. Plus since you draw line of fire from the turret, you can hide them behind terrain pretty well.
The true downside to them is 1 gun. If they take a single Weap Dest, they are useless and two immobilizes seal their fate.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078869.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078869.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help Id be interested in seeing what you all usually run. Also, what would you do for 1000pts in Cities of Death? Id really like to see how that works in a list!
Thanks!
T-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078897.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078897.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help

Cpt. Icanus wrote:The sense of the v is preventing your opponent from charging your bolters. I'll try to have some kind of pcture

Rhino Sisters Rhino
___\ ________ /
____\--2" max--/

Why? Your opponent has to keep away 1" from your models. So effectively there's a 2" (plus width of the base) invisible forcefield between 2 of your units so close to each other that your enemy's models can't pass. Also you're not shooting through your own unit, so there's no cover save (unless your own positioning sucks). This is kind of the FoF for SM/SoB and I would not use it in a friendly game. But it's totally legal and will score you a win in a tourney possibly...

The gap must be less than one base width (about 1" for most bases) because the rules for assault specifically exempt the assaulting unit from having to stay 1" from enemy units: even enemy units that they aren't assaulting.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078945.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078945.page GMT SoB Assault help 2 Sisters (10) HF/MG, Vet Book/MB Rhino(SEA) 214ea
Exorcist x2 - 270
Canoness JP,Evis,Book 97 approx
Platoon PCS w/Lasc (50), IS w/AC 60x2
=965
Quick and Dirty List. Not sure about CoD though and how that affects things.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078946.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1078946.page GMT SoB Assault help tac squads, get themselves wedged nice and comfy inside my girls and just stay there pounding away all game now that they can't be shot.

Yes, it works out exactly as it sounds.

Without having some sort of killing ability like a Str6/8 eviserator, the girls just get slowly ground down as their Str3/T3 ensures they lose combat every round. You don't need to worry about them breaking, but they are not going to do much damage either.

I can't really help you at 1000 points though. I rarely run the girls at less than 1500, for as has been noted they really come into their own when they can afford two exorcists and rhinos for everyone. I personally like two exorcists and a heavy bolter retributor squad. I never have any luck with multi-meltas.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1081003.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1081003.page GMT SoB Assault help

Wehrkind wrote:Personally, I like eviscerators on my Vet Sisters. Too often have I had enemy assault units, or even tac squads, get themselves wedged nice and comfy inside my girls and just stay there pounding away all game now that they can't be shot.

Yes, it works out exactly as it sounds.

Without having some sort of killing ability like a Str6/8 eviserator, the girls just get slowly ground down as their Str3/T3 ensures they lose combat every round. You don't need to worry about them breaking, but they are not going to do much damage either.

I can't really help you at 1000 points though. I rarely run the girls at less than 1500, for as has been noted they really come into their own when they can afford two exorcists and rhinos for everyone. I personally like two exorcists and a heavy bolter retributor squad. I never have any luck with multi-meltas.

Using faith to give your girls Str 5 means that a lot of the time they can win combat against non-elite units in CC.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1081128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1081128.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help SoB troop squad 3+ Invulnerable is awesome, but it can be very difficult to do when you have a fully healthy squad (10+ models) because you have to roll BELOW their number to pull off the act. However I have great luck using litnies to give me 3+ Invuln save that in turn often saves my bacon from a L. Russ pie plate etc.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1082076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1082076.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help

Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote:I have found Litnanies Of Faith to be invaluable for just 20 points. Everyone knows that making a SoB troop squad 3+ Invulnerable is awesome, but it can be very difficult to do when you have a fully healthy squad (10+ models) because you have to roll BELOW their number to pull off the act. However I have great luck using litnies to give me 3+ Invuln save that in turn often saves my bacon from a L. Russ pie plate etc.

Litanies only works if the independent character who is using it is not attached to a unit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1082889.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1082889.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help GW has recognized it is worth at least 15 pts.

If you want to excel in assault you need to do the same thing Marines/Orks do and put that "power fist" in your squad. I have found my normal Sisters typically inflict maybe 1 or 2 wounds against MEQ while the Eviscerator smashes them flat so I can win combat.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083000.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083000.page GMT SoB Assault help http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083220.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083220.page GMT SoB Assault help mm was a experiment. I ran a footslogger to see how bad it is. The heavy bolters worked better then MM. I always give immulator TLHF, move 12" and shoot!
The game store only uses 1000pt. local Turnaments are 1850. Then I get 3 exorcist,Ex-armor ect.
I don't think the Rhino V pattern is too cheese. In the gap, models are shooting throuth their own unit. That's OK? They will have to bunch up for the whole unit to shoot. That is where template weapons,hurt.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes, sisters and acts of faith can stay in combat. I want then to break out of combat, so I can shoot the Sh.. out of them. We all want to play our strenths and exploit the opponent's weakness. that is why players assault SoBs.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083439.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083439.page GMT SoB Assault help BosL if you don't want to. Remember though that the Sisters relatively poor initiative will mean they get cut down quite often when they try to run.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083868.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083868.page GMT SoB Assault help WH players feel about using the guard allies rules and bringing in infantry platoons etc. I'n this case could be used as meat shields for the sisters for example, take the assault, lose,, leg it or die, and the sisters behind it now have units in front that cant re engange until after they get to shoot them up.
In general though I just like the idea of a combined WH/guard thing as if they are on a campaign or PDF aiding the sisters in battle. Oh and they also bring lacannons, always a plus

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083963.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083963.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help

willydstyle wrote:

Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote:I have found Litnanies Of Faith to be invaluable for just 20 points. Everyone knows that making a SoB troop squad 3+ Invulnerable is awesome, but it can be very difficult to do when you have a fully healthy squad (10+ models) because you have to roll BELOW their number to pull off the act. However I have great luck using litnies to give me 3+ Invuln save that in turn often saves my bacon from a L. Russ pie plate etc.

Litanies only works if the independent character who is using it is not attached to a unit.

Interesting claim, too bad the rules dont support it.

BTW, neither does dakka....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/251172.page

..........................................

That being said, if you're tired of losing HtH with sisters, try this unit.

Canoness, Litanies, Cloak, Book, Eviscerator
Priest, Power Armour, Eviscerator
(20) Battle Sisters w/ Vet sister, Eviscerator, Book

Using faith.....

All with invuln saves (litanies)
On the charge, 10 Rerollable to hit Eviscerator Attacks at str 8
Unmodifiable Leadership

....the ultimate deadly tarpit.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083968.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1083968.page GMT SoB Assault help gk's if you wanna do that

@Vermillion: The only reason most WH players don't bring guard is because we want to max out our faith points. Giving them up for exorcists is a good trade off, giving them up for bs3 lascannons is not.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084040.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help
Is this:

Canoness: Evis, Jump Pack, Cloak, Mantle, BoSL and whatever else

Sisters x10 MG/HF, VSS w/BoSL
Rhino
Sisters x10 MG/HF, VSS w/BoSL
Rhino

Seraphim x5 w/ x2 HandFlamers, VSS w/ -blank?-

Exorcist
Exorcist

The best you can do with 1000pts pretty much? Because obviously there isnt much, and Im really curious how this would hold up against a IG army.

Thanks!
T-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084176.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084176.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:Just a quick question then: I have a decent sized interest in playing sisters of battle against my buddies Imp. Guard in a game coming up in a week or so. If it doesnt work out Im probably going to go back to the Orks. We're only doing 1000pts until we get our armies painted and then we'll move up to 1500pts.

Is this:

Canoness: Evis, Jump Pack, Cloak, Mantle, BoSL and whatever else

Sisters x10 MG/HF, VSS w/BoSL
Rhino
Sisters x10 MG/HF, VSS w/BoSL
Rhino

Seraphim x5 w/ x2 HandFlamers, VSS w/ -blank?-

Exorcist
Exorcist

The best you can do with 1000pts pretty much? Because obviously there isnt much, and Im really curious how this would hold up against a IG army.

Thanks!
T-

Seraphim are too expensive and basically....stink. Be a more advanced sisters player and lose them.

Lose the jump pack on the Cannoness and throw here in one of the rhino's after you lose a guy...OR...

Put her with a minimum sized Celestian unit in an Immolator. Melta/HF and a HF on the Immo. You should have the points for a decent celestian unit after losing the Seraphim.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084223.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084223.page GMT SoB Assault help IC is with a unit, then they take tests for acts of faith as normal: roll against unit size.

The litanies specifically say that the character can use an act of faith without rolling.

While the character is with a unit it's not the character that does the rolling.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084248.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084248.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help D6 S8 AP1 missles a turn should be enough to give the Demolisher a hard time, right?). There's obviously more to my opponents army than the Demolisher, but that seems to be one of the biggest pains in the rear, and Im curious is the Canoness on foot w/bodyguard a better bet than one that can jump and tank hunt?

Thanks!
T-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084264.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084264.page GMT SoB Assault help

willydstyle wrote:When the IC is with a unit, then they take tests for acts of faith as normal: roll against unit size.

The litanies specifically say that the character can use an act of faith without rolling.

Right, in this case, she can use an act of faith without rolling against squad size. Squad doesnt roll, faith goes off. Character is part of the squad, therefore uses the act of faith. (along with the squad)

While the character is with a unit it's not the character that does the rolling.

If this is your basis for why litanies doesnt work in a unit....its pretty thin. Good luck convincing a sisters player.

I beleive this would be possibly the ONLY peice of wargear in the entire game that you wouldnt be able to use while attached to a squad....which doesnt really make much sense either. Just because you attach to a squad all of a sudden you lose the ability to use a pricey one-shot peice of wargear? There isnt even a game-breaking effect by using it within a squad. In fact, its probably the ONLY way possible to actually get 25 pts worth of "effect" out of it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084358.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084358.page GMT SoB Assault help

Not sure what you are trying to say (?)

WH Codex Pg 18: "Faithful Independant Charactors may use Acts of Faith while operating independantly or if they have joined a unit with the Adeptas Sororitas special rule..." What is ambiguouse about that?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084707.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1084707.page GMT SoB Assault help
I like adding the priest idea. I have never used the Mantle before.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1085716.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1085716.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help
On the cheap-

5 sisters, melta, Flamer, mounted in HFlamer Immo. For HtH combat, charge beatstick "power weapon" units and go invulnerable at will with faith. Nice tarpit for a turn or two.

Pricey-

8 girls, Veteran for extra faith with Evicerator, Preist with Eviscerator, Cannoness with Eviscerator to taste, mounted in Rhino. 3+ to hit anything in CC (with exceptions), WITH rerolls on the charge.

Anything in between is workable.

When Running my Celestians, I prefer them to be able to handle any threat...so I tend to go the Melta/HF route for weapon options. If you've ever wasted points on Seraphim...try Celestians instead. They're probably the best that SoB have to offer. Wonderfly useful unit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1085773.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1085773.page GMT SoB Assault help
I regularly run them in a 1500+ list and have never had a bad game with them. They are the best/only SoB unit for fast counter assaults; put a canoness with eviscerator in with them and they can chew through almost and specialist hth unit in the game. I do think they are over-costed for what they do, but they give me a bit more flexibility with the rest of my army which i can't get anywhere else. i.e. i don't worry too much about one of my regular units getting assaulted as the Seraphim+HQ are only one turn away from coming to help out. As long as i'm not daft with what i try to shoot up in the first place (10 man chaos termie squads for example) the seraphim are great for mopping/tying up whats left.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1085805.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1085805.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help
It's good that you can use them well, but that doesnt mean that they're a good unit. You yourself say that they're overcosted.

Sisters have so many ways to use the units that they DO have that are price efficient. I cannot see any reason to use costly seraphim for things that other units do better.

Seraphim arent faster than mounted troops....unless you're trying to stretch an assault distance. Problem with this is that the Sisters are generally NOT an assault army. They're a close range "drive-by" army.

If you could put a priest in a Seraphim unit, I might change my tune. Units stacked with eviscerators and a preist are TERRIBLY deadly in HtH...the lack of the priest and the high pt cost of Seraphim make them not really worth it. Not for a unit that people generally try to go HtH with. The preist and multiple eviscerators backed up by faith is how you get solid HtH out of the sisters army. It's the best way to do it. Seraphim cannot sport all the tools they need to be an effective sisters HtH unit.

With just a little bit of foresight, you can have a unit of celestians do the job of the Seraphim better than they can. Try to predict where your opponent will be, move the loaded rhino in the general vicinity, then charge out of the rhino next turn. You may not be able to plug an emergency hole like the Seraphim's jump packs allow you to do, but other units in the sisters army can do anything ELSE that the seraphim can do....better AND for less points.

Just my opinion. People may like to use them for fluff and/or just liking the unit. I understand that....I've got an entire Grey Knight army that I've played competetivly with much success. I would never claim that the army is good though....its all generalship. If you do well with Seraphim it isnt because the unit is good (because it isnt in comparison to the rest of sisters units), if you do well with Seraphim, thats simply a tribute to your generalship.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1085876.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1085876.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help
Thanks!
T-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1086048.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1086048.page GMT SoB Assault help
When it comes to close combat, the best advice I can offer is "don't." Sisters aren't terrible in CC, but they're absolutely nothing special, and it's simply not worth the points to make them.

To me, they're a rare case where a Plasma Pistol is more worthwhile than a Power Weapon, at least when they're doing a Rhino "drive up, jump out, shoot" sort of tactic. I gave most of my Superiors Power Weapons, but I've never really gotten much out of them.

An Eviscerator is a lot more useful, provides the same value that a Power Fist does. It's nice to have one or two around, to give to units you expect to run into bad spots.

All that aside, as I said, don't get into CC. Obviously this isn't always possible, especially against a good opponent, but my point is to not bother building your list to win close combats. Instead, build your list around the strengths of the Sisters (shooting, using Divine Guideance), and then play to avoid CC.

The other day I played against Daemons, and while the other guy didn't play the strongest game, I managed to shoot down a Lord of Change, Bloodthirster, and two Daemon Princes, all before they could get into CC with my Sisters. This was only possible because he brought them in piecemeal, which allowed me to focus fire on each one at a time, but that's pretty much how you want to play things... Find lone units, use transport speed to jump on them, and wipe them out completely before they can charge you.

If you're going to get into CC, do it on your terms. I gave up my Dominions (to a squad of Bloodletters), in order to knock two wounds off his Bloodthirster, and also to draw them away from an objective. If you're going to let CC happen, do it in a place that furthers the mission, and understand you're totally giving up the unit. Let them go die, so everyone else can reposition.

Use the Invulnerable save Act of Faith to cause assaults to end on his turn. Don't just use it out of sentimental attachment to a Sisters squad. If they're fighting anything but Guardsmen, they'll probably lose. Just make sure to do it in his turn, so you can blow away what's left.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1086095.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1086095.page GMT SoB Assault help
I'm sure we could drag the Seraphim argument on for ever and ever but, as Deadshane has so succinctly put it; they either suit your army/style of play or they don't but they're still overcosted. well put sir

Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Trogdor: There have been a couple of posts in this thread already for 1000pt armies. You should have also seen from the way this thread has gone that even us experienced players can't agree on what is best, it comes down to how you use your army. Experimenting and coming up with things on your own is one of the best things about the hobby, sure internet CC lists can start you off but they are designed by other people for their own styles of play.

In short; mess around! Losing a game can often teach you a heck of a lot more about the units you picked and the tactics you used than winning can.

Edited for hangover tremens :S]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1086545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1086545.page GMT SoB Assault help

I will try using celestians at some point, they look like a great unit on paper and, with what has been put forward in this thread, definitely worth a go.

I run 9 of them with my Cannoness, all in a Rhino. I haven't changed the list yet, but I think I'd rather they were just normal Battle Sisters.

Battle Sisters are cheaper, no less effective in shooting, and they're a Troops choice. Celestians still aren't good enough to win combats. S3 just doesn't cut it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1086969.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1086969.page GMT SoB Assault help

willydstyle wrote:
Using faith to give your girls Str 5 means that a lot of the time they can win combat against non-elite units in CC.

The only issue I have with this is that most units you can't beat handily in melee are going to be swinging first and still wounding you on 3's. Basically SM, CSM, Orks and maybe Necrons. So you spend a faith, swing second, get hit on 3's, wounded on 3's, save on 3's, then you get to attack back, hit on 4's, wound on 3's, and your opponant saves on 3's. (6 for orks). The problem I see is that you are going to lose enough bodies that you can not likely make up for it unless you have a way to put some wounds through the armor.
The other advantage in the eviscerator is that you become Str8 with it after that act of faith, and so can insta kill CSM lords and the like.

Now, at 1000 points eviscerators might not be worth it. But I still don't like tossing faith to allow Sisters to assault decently (at A2 Str 5) instead of standing and shooting, and blowing a faith to soak a MEQ charge at A1 Str 5 I1 is a little questionable I think.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1087742.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1087742.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help
REPLY]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1087905.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1087905.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help

fofomajor wrote:
REPLY

ok...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1088116.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1088116.page GMT SoB Assault help
SM can't be taken as allies for SoB and Orbital Barrage is a horrible tactic to take out Dark Reapers or really pretty much anything.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1088543.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1088543.page GMT SoB Assault help
I like Jump Pack Cannonesses. They are a threat against a lot of units most other things can't tarpit due to 2+ invulnerable saves. A walking or mech Cannoness isn't nearly so threatening due to the smaller charge range. Few people are going to let you drive up with a Cannoness in a Rhino and not move out of charge range on their turn unless they really want to shoot/not move. Getting them delivered intact is a lot harder these days.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1088799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1088799.page GMT SoB Assault help http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1089076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1089076.page GMT SoB Assault help

fofomajor wrote:YES THEY CAN BE ALLIES

In order for sisters and marines to be fighting in the same force, the sisters must be the ones taken as allies. This means the choice of units from the WH codex is limited to 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite and 1 Fast Attack.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1089135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1089135.page GMT SoB Assault help
Unless you have a VERY specific, isolated target, you want to stay in your transport and use your two specials every turn. (Bonus points for firing the meltagun/HF at a big vehicle with troops deployed as a 'screen' in front. You kill two birds with one stone and teach the other player not to leave screens that close to their vehicles.)

Once you're isolated something and can be sure of yourself, that's a great time to bail out of the vehicle and gun them down.

Otherwise you torrent one unit and then eat a charge / ton of shooting from something else.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1090107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1090107.page GMT SoB Assault help SoB army works: Counter attack.

Taking the fight to the enemy will almost always land you in bother, you need to learn to react to your opponents movements, namely by having your units in a position to support each other. SoB are hard to use as an Alpha Strike army; one turn of bad rolling and you will find find half your points being chewed up.

I don't want to re-open the argument, but Seraphim are an excellent way to link disparate units together and give your opponent something else to worry about. If they have strong assault options, they will not want to be left in the open with flame templates headed their way. If they have good shooting, they will fear the fast assault.

Going back OT. SoB should never be in an assault unless you are sacrificing a unit for positional gain. True, there are some options you can take that are great at assault, but that is not playing to the strengths of the army. Stick with the short range shooting, and use whatever works for you to smooth out the process... seraphim/celestians/flying-nuns etc....

Edit: Ignore fofo. 4chan holiday season has started

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1090852.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1090852.page GMT Re:SoB Assault help VSS in rhinos at 1000 pts regular game, low points like this is not our strong point because our points cost has not changed much since 3rd ED. but our basic troops are still decently priced 3+ saves...so drown him in them.

Wall off any units that get to close with rhinos and shoot them with multiple squads.

2-3 BSS should be combining their fire every time you shoot.

Books of St. Lucius make sure your sisters hold the line when assaulted, make sure there is another BS squad, or seraphims or a canoness nearby to counter assault. If its an actual assault unit hitting you, the best bet is to increase your initiative so you kill off some of their powerweapons before they hit you, as you usually won't have invulnerable save in the initial assalt. the test must be taken at the beginning of the phase.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1097256.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1097256.page GMT SoB Assault help "pg 25 wh codex. Allied Space marines may not be used if and Adepta Soritas units are preasent."

If I am correct this bad rule works ilke this.
In a SoB army, Marines Can't be used. If using Space marine force Then Sob can be used as Allies.
No wonder people have problems with rules.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If a IC joins a unit or has a retnue. The faith test is made from the group. Under/over number in unit. OR does the IC roll vs. LD for the whole unit. It is difficult rolling Over the number, with large units.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
1000 pt armies posted would be nice. I only seen 2 postings. One of them is mine. Which means the it sucks I dropped the Retributor Squad X5 (55), 2 X Multi Meltas for Heavy bolters. Everyone says how Retributor Squad suck. bring a exorcist instead. In smaller games vehicles don't last long.( I shoot the heck out of their vehicles). I have had lots of good luck with heavy bolter Retributor Squad, No good from the multimelta units. My 1850 pt list has 3 Exorcists.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1143112.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1143112.page GMT SoB Assault help "pg 25 wh codex. Allied Space marines may not be used if and Adepta Soritas units are preasent."

If I am correct this bad rule works ilke this.
In a SoB army, Marines Can't be used. If using Space marine force Then Sob can be used as Allies.
No wonder people have problems with rules.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1143113.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263043/1143113.page GMT