<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed. "]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed. WWP deployment strategies, unit selection, army deployment (reserve/non-reserved), etc.

I posted a list but received no feedback. Hoping for a better result here. Have a look if you have time. Also, 1750 is the range I'm interested in.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/338254.page]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2307304.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2307304.page GMT Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed. WWP Portal armies are probably the most flexible build the DE can muster given enough experience playing it. Here are some units I've used:

Wracks
Haemonculi (carries the portal)
Wyches
Hellions
Reavers

Basically all these units can take advantage of a webway. The rest of your army needs to support the units arrival. Usually the Haemonculus starts in a raider with the wracks. Taking the Baron as a 2nd HQ gives you a decent chance at going first and makes your hellions scoring. The rest of what you field is essentially left to what you prefer. Ideal locations of dropping the portal is usually in the center of the table OR near most of the objectives (remember that you can place objectives to benefit your armies planned use of the WWP). The units I'm interested in testing out later on is an Archon with a WWP lead by harlequins. That should be interesting. Your choice of Grotesques is interesting but their LD 4 for me is a turn off. I think you have too many Haemonculi in your initial list. Your army feels a little light on scoring units, but that's just me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2311558.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2311558.page GMT Re:Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed. WWp as well.


When thinking about the webway, you've got to think about both army composition and the potential deployments. Lets just look at standard missions. If you play in a tourney with custom missions, pray htat they release them before-hand (most of them do)

There are 3 possible deployments for standard missions, but you also have to consider whether or not you have first turn. In all cases, your aim is to get the WWP(s) as close to table center as possible.

Pitched Battle with first turn. This is an easy one. Just about any unit can house your WWP holder. Deploy at the furthest edge of your deployment, in the center, and move forward 6" and drop it.

Pitched Battle with second turn. Almost all dark eldar armies I have seen have been designed to play from reserve without first turn. You'll need a robust unit to house the WWP, and it might end up being a sacrificial unit. Harlequins can be a good option here if you refuse to sacrifice any units, and depending on terrain sometimes you can just deploy the lone hameonculus as long as he is completely out of LOS. Otherwise I would advocate using a 10 strong wrack unit. Even my heavy weapon spamming long fang-hating IG army can only reliably kill 7-8 FNP, in-cover T4 models.

Spearhead first turn. See pitched battle first turn. Virtually any unit can be deployed to house the WWP haemonculus

Spearhead second turn. Pretty much the same as pitched battle. If you've got foot units in your list that you don't want to have to walk from the table edge, then you'll need to get that WWP out there.

Dawn of War first turn. This is the mission that kind of ruins it for harelquins, as they can't be your "WWP house". You can deploy the haemonculus solo on this one if you want, he'll be able to drop the portal right away, and even if they seize the initiative you'll have nightfight and hopefully some LOS blocking terrain to save him. Alternately, you can just deploy him with a 10x wrack unit.

Dawn of war second turn. Again we can't use the harlequins for it, but the 10x strong wrack unit is MUCH more survivable here as many of your opponents heavy weapons will be rolling on to the table and unable to fire to full effect, and also night fight will protect you quite a bit.

So for the unit to hold the haemonculus, I would advise that your list definitely include a 10x strong wrack unit. Additionally, you can include a harlequin unit for 67% of the missions, its a much better unit for not taking casualties in those missions. But you pay for that luxury.


As I mentioned earlier, the best thing I've seen step out of a webway portal so far is beastmasters. Also, I mentioned that the fragile dark eldar always have a reserve plan for when they don't get first turn. The trick is, with most units, the points economical and dark lance-having raider does just fine when coming from reserve. Things like wyches and incubi will clear up to the 24" line for a table edge on their arrival. Granted they won't be allowed to charge when they arrive, but it saves you from having to make a WWP plan.

Another unit I see often in WWP lists are trueborn and scourges stepping backwards out of WWPs. They are closer to the action when they arrive, and so can use blasters/splinter pods. But they don't necessarily have to come out of the aggressive side of the WWP marker. In the case of scourges, they don't "need" to do this, as they can have plenty of 36" cannons, and in the case of the trueborn they don't need to do it either as they can have the great venom.

But beastmasters would absolutely love the opportunity to charge something without being shot at, and don't have a transport to start in the middle of the table. In games where you have first turn, they function quite well, stepping almost to midfield and then threatening a turn 2 charge on almost everything your opponent has. But they suffere a lot when you don't have first turn, and are facing a shooting army or a hybrid shooting army. Your overall fragility forces you to full-reserve and then your expensive and moderately slow beastmasters are forced to walk on from a table edge. That is why they love the WWP so much.

A few more tips...

If you go for the WWP, use this opportunity to save points on raiders and venoms by not taking them. This nets you a loss in firepower, so be sure you include trueborn and/or scourges for mass splinter cannon fire, and trueborn/harlequins for anti-armor shooting.

Liquifiers are VERY good. This is more of general tip. In a WWP list, I'd like to see at least one 10x wrack unit with 2x liquifiers and 3x haemunculii with liquefiers.

Don't skip ravagers just because you are a WWP list. Their front-loaded output is too good and can't really be replicated on foot, and they operate perfectly from reserve.

For troops, foot wyches are more survivable in assault, and foot wracks are more survivable in shooting, since the wyches are walking, this is an opportunity to buy that second shardnet, making them a really frustrating unit to finish off in CC. I like a mix of both types of unit, so that you aren't hyper vulnerable to a focussed army.


I don't have a book handy, so I have no real idea of what this points out to, but here is what I think would be a great starting point for a WWP army...

3x haemonculus 3x liquifiers, 2x WWP

5x trueborn 2x splinter cannons 3x blasters
5x trueborn 2x splinter cannons 3x blasters
5x trueborn 2x splinter cannons 3x blasters

10x wyches, hekatrix, agonizer, phantasm grenade launcher, haywire grenades 2x shardnets
10x wyches, hekatrix, agonizer, phantasm grenade launcher, haywire grenades 2x shardnets
10x wracks 2x liquifiers
10x wracks 2x liquifiers

5x beastmasters 5x khymera, 8x razorwing flocks
5x beastmasters 5x khymera, 8x razorwing flocks

ravager
ravager
ravager


From there its up to you where you'd go. i think its probably fine on anti-transport shooting, I would prefer more splinter cannons and so I might add a scourge unit. Or you could hybridize and break up the second big wrack unit into two 5x units riding in venoms and maybe buy venoms for the trueborn, that they will or will not use based on the mission.

Hope this was all helpful ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2312223.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2312223.page GMT Re:Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed. WWP in the army. This is one of the hardest units you can possibly face. I have done this formation many times, and I enjoy it very much!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2312246.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2312246.page GMT Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed. WWP bearer and escort are deployed.

Empty raiders are used to screen WWP one, and on your turn they proceed to ram every vehicle the enemy has, preferably on their side armor if they can angle right. They essentially become an autohitting 24-36" ranged attack, their front armor is treated as AV11-13, and they have a 33% chance to ignore any damage they may take. Against a Chimera, they can autopenetrate if they hit the side armor and moved 27", with an average distance of 24" needed for an S10 hit. Assuming they moved 24", and rolled a two on their D3, they autopen the chimera, suffering an S9 hit against AV12, which they have a 33% chance to ignore due to the invuln save. The non-ramming raider moves forwards and disembarks the passengers, the WWP bearer deploys it, and if the escort is blaster trueborn they open up on a nearby vehicle.

If successful the enemy vehicles will be destroyed or disabled to some extent or another, while your raiders should be comparatively well off, so the enemy response will be muted. On your next turn half your army pours out of the webway, crashing into any nearby vehicles or passengers that were forced to disembark, any nearby surviving raiders can be used to ferry them to more distant targets.

Three ravagers to sit in the backfield sniping enemy tanks would help quite a bit, since a good portion of your antitank can be expected to be damaged in its first attack.

If nothing else that tactic should throw your opponent off guard from its sheer insanity, though since the raiders have a better chance of walking away unscathed than the enemy does, it should do pretty well. If mainly against mech guard, that is...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2313055.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2313055.page GMT Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed.
@ Captkaruthors: Archon WWP/harlequins sounds like it's worth a try at some point.

@ Shep: Most enlightening. I've been thinking about alot of your points, and I get how important composition is to being successful with the WWP. The list you mentioned looks like it could pack a nasty punch, but its well out of my points range (guessing it's 2000-2200pts). Normally, I builds lists at 1750. I agree with you that beastmasters are lovely units coming out a WWP. If points allow, 5 BM with 5 Khymerae and 8 RW flocks would be my preferred build: it has enough rending potential to cripple if not destroy heavy infantry/medium tanks. Also, as a unit to house a wwp carrier, I can see why you'd choose wracks. They can take a beating. The problem is that I think that's where their utility ends. Is that enough? After the is wwp is deployed, I don't see a reduced squad of wracks contributing anything to the battle. Thus, I wonder what you'd think of using 20-man kabalite warriors to run the wwp carrier. With a token from the haemy wwp carrier granting FNP, 5+ armour, twice the numbers--could work, couldn't it? The loss of liquifiers is regrettable, however. The main reason being that you'd still have a very reasonable midfield firebase. Like to hear your opinion on this tactic because you really stressed the necessity of wracks in a wwp list.

Futhermore, I agree that the freedom the wwp grants from the reliance on AV 10/10/10 vehicles is something in it's favor. I like them, I just don't like putting my faith in them.

@ Buffo-- 10 grotesques and 2 haemys are quite the point sink. What is that anyway? Gotta be 500, if not 600 points. Don't know under which circumstances I would feel comfortable using that. I have read through some of your reports, so I know you know what your doing. Can you explain how you use this unit further? I like them in 3's with a haemy, all equipped differently, 2 liquifiers, 2 tokens, an reasonably priced.

@ SirP-- That sound like a cleaver trick, but as mentioned above, in a wwp list I'd like to put the points saved from raiders into more boots/claws/wings on the ground.

Based on the tactics covered in this thread, would you give me your thoughts on this:

Haemonculus @ 85
WWP

Haemonculus @ 85
WWP

3 Kabalite Trueborn, 3 Blasters, Haywire Grenades @ 87

3 Kabalite Trueborn, 3 Blasters, Haywire Grenades @ 87

3 Kabalite Trueborn, 3 Blasters, Haywire Grenades @ 87

19 Kabalite Warriors, 2x Splinter Cannon @ 210
1 Sybarite

19 Kabalite Warriors, 2x Splinter Cannon @ 210
1 Sybarite

9 Wyches, 2x Shardnets, Haywire Grenades @ 170
1 Hekatrix, Agoniser, Haywire Grenades

9 Wyches, 2x Shardnets, Haywire Grenades @ 170
1 Hekatrix, Agoniser, Haywire Grenades

5 Beastmasters @ 240
5 Khymerae
8 Razorwing Flocks

Ravager @ 105

Ravager @ 105

Ravager @ 105]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2338749.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2338749.page GMT Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed.
2) I disagree with the beastmaster build. 5 beastmasters, 10 Khymera, 6 Razorwing Flocks give 5 less wounds but twice the 4+ saves, 8 extra attacks on the charge, and can lose an extra body since it's 21 bodies as opposed to 18.

3) As soon as your ravagers get shot down, you have nothing that can keep up with fast units. Jet packs, Bikes, and Fast vehicles can run rings around you and pick off your units fairly rapidly.

4) Foot slogging the WWPs into play is a bad idea. You want to get them out first turn and not a second later. 3 Wracks in a raider with each Haemi is the best delivery system. Cheap, gives protection to the Haemis after deployment, and gives ~32" of board coverage for the units coming through the portal on turn 2.

Personally I say Talos instead of Ravagers when relying on WWP. I like the Wych units, but why not make them 15 strong since you don't have the raider restriction anymore? Why not run multiple beastmaster units?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2339000.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2339000.page GMT Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed. wwp based force.

Regarding your suggestions--

1) What configuration is best for trueborn in a wwp list: on foot, in venoms, groups of 3 blasters, groups of 4 blasters, 2 darklances/raider...i agree no haywire grenades (though it was a point filler move)

2) You make a good case. Must see codex when I get home. 10 x 4++ seems like a real pain to cut through.

3) I noticed that. That needs to be addressed.

4) Seems everyone has a different version of what's ideal. Your version is cheap (as you said) and offers deeper deployment--these are both good things. It's very frail and 3 KP though. Shep had a good rationale for 10x wracks. This is another big ? for me still.

Talos instead of ravagers sounds cool because I have a feeling the new kit is going to be sweet and looks matter to be because they will be on display. But at 135 points a pop 3 talos are as expensive a 4 ravagers (equivelent cost). I like groups of 10 wyches over groups of 15. Mutiple BM units sound great in theory, but the points have to come from somewhere. Do you have a build tying some of these elements together?

Much appreciated man! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2339239.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2339239.page GMT Dark Eldar webway portal tactics, advice needed.
AesSedai wrote:But at 135 points a pop


Not sure where you get 135 from. Just give them chain flails and a haywire blaster and they cost the same as ravager with flickerfield, 115. You could easily convert my army list to a WWP build since it is based on 2 beastmaster units (something I've considered myself). I'll have to give it some thought on exactly what I would swap out though. TBH the main failure of the WWP is (1) you must give deep deployment on turn 1, leaving any foot slogging idea out the window, (2) should you go second or get the initiative stolen your raiders that would be carrying the WWPs forward would get shot down on turn 1. Unless someone can answer that dilemma reasonably I don't see WWP ever working.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2339727.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338478/2339727.page GMT