<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Tau vs MEQ"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Tau vs MEQ MEQ, as well as TEQ:
1. No power weapons
2. No viable way to fire insane amounts of small arms fire without extremely high risk
3. Not enough low AP weapons/too expensive

Potential Solutions:
-Devilfish get 2 rail rifles embedded in their hulls for passengers to use
-Pulse carbine gets assault 2-3 and 18"
-Ion cannon becomes Heavy 4-5/blast and ap 2
-Vespids become 5++ and guns become Assault 2 at 18"
-Pulse weapons inflict -1 to saves forced by wounds
-Burst cannon becomes Assault 4-5
-Kroot shapers can take power weapons
-Hammerhead template becomes St 7 Ap 2
-Main railgun has targeting JotWW-esque style

Thoughts?
not saying all should be done, but just throwing out some ideas]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2795371.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2795371.page GMT Re:Tau vs MEQ AP weaponry, or at least let the PR get more shots. Or I always thought itd be cool if they said something like "now that the tau population is increasing and the Empire growing theyve come to develop new tactics for fighting the other races, so instead of having a three man crisis suit team you have 4." But id just prefer better low AP weaponry for the price we pay for each suit. Im sure that whatever they come up with for the new codex it will be sure to add a new challenge for us followers of the Greater Good!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2795545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2795545.page GMT Re:Tau vs MEQ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2796148.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2796148.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
You just have to focus on a squad per turn and just whittle each one down. Don't split fire if possible.

Take out transports (Something we do with ease) and then just stay out of range and plink away at them.

Granted it can be difficult it is not something we struggle with...

Horde lists however...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2796157.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2796157.page GMT Tau vs MEQ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2796516.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2796516.page GMT Tau vs MEQ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2797251.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2797251.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
Jone96 wrote:Your Ideas here kill Tau Empires original purpose.


enlighten me. I'm not asking for assault units or more durable units, which are the only main thing that goes against Tau philosophy.

gr1m_dan wrote:Marines are quite easy to take out for Tau to be honest...

You just have to focus on a squad per turn and just whittle each one down. Don't split fire if possible.

Take out transports (Something we do with ease) and then just stay out of range and plink away at them.

Granted it can be difficult it is not something we struggle with...

Horde lists however...


honestly, i find horde much, much easier to play against than marines because of all the things we have against them, like the flurry of blast templates with hammerheads, while having the ability to actually pierce their armor. And the part about focusing on a squad per turn: look at most other armies in the game. Do they have to dedicate their entire army just to kill a squad of 5-10 marines? Do they have to equip a 25 pt model with 37 pts of wargear, just so it can maybe kill a marine 1/2 of the time, out of cover, while being in rapid fire range? I'm not saying that it's not possible. I'm saying that in order to make a list that does fairly well against marines, one has to forsake a build that is more of an all-comers list as opposed to a tailored one. If your build has worked, please share.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2800350.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2800350.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
Railgun initially fires a solid shot at S10 AP1 in the style of JotWW, with a line where you want it. If the first model hit dies, then the next in line takes a hit at S9 AP2, and if that dies the next at S8 AP3 and so on and so forth until the next model survives, it hits a unit it cannot harm, or it hits terrain.

Vehicles will function similarly, except that the solid shot will only continue onwards if the vehicle is destroyed; if the vehicle is immobilised or has a weapon destroyed that does not cause the vehicle to become destroyed, then it is assumed that the shot was deflected or did not strike enough to pierce the armour, however the impact from the hit will cause the vehicle to also become shaken.

Ways of stopping the shot:
Sucessful Armour/Invulnerable/Cover save made against the shot.
The shot hits intervening terrain.
The shot fails to wound/glance/penetrate.
The shot cannot harm the model.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2801809.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2801809.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
-Devilfish get 2 rail rifles embedded in their hulls for passengers to use
Good as an upgrade for Pathfinder Devilfishes only

-Pulse carbine gets assault 2-3 and 18"
-Kroot shapers can take power weapons
Fine

-Ion cannon becomes Heavy 4-5/blast and ap 2
-Vespids become 5++ and guns become Assault 2 at 18"
-Pulse weapons inflict -1 to saves forced by wounds
-Burst cannon becomes Assault 4-5
-Hammerhead template becomes St 7 Ap 2
These suggestions are silly.

-Main railgun has targeting JotWW-esque style
Interesting idea but would be very difficult to implement. With a single shot causing anywhere from 1-10 hits, you're looking at a massive price increase.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2803712.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2803712.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
Now DEFENSIVELY, yeah there could be some improvements. Getting insta-killed is a HUGE issue for Tau.

Honestly, as a Tau player, I hope not a whole lot Stat-wise changes. Tau are balanced. What they lack in defense and strength they make up for in sheer firepower. Str 10 AP 1 72" shot and twin linked? Damn straight.


I'd have a nasty army if it weren't for the dice-gods hating me so much. Penetration rolls are not a problem, of course. But damage rolls, ya darn tootin' I'm rolling 1s and 2s.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2806019.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2806019.page GMT Re:Tau vs MEQ
Firewarrior squad decreased to 100 pts for 1 Team Leader and 11 Firewarriors. May change to Carbine armed for free, Carbines are 18" Str 5 AP 5 Assault 2, Pinning. All Team Leaders and HQ (including for other types of units such as Broadsides, Crisis Suits, etc) have Markerlights (which are changed). Ability to buy up to 2 drones from the following list:
  • Gun Drone (same as current, with new carbine stats above) for 10 pts (up to 2)
  • Burst Cannon Drone for 10 points (up to 2)
  • Twinlinked MP Drone for 15 points (up to 2)
  • Twinlinked PR Drone for 20 points (up to 2)
  • Shield Drone, gives entire FW team a 6+ invulnerable save for ~20 points (limit 1)
  • Target Assist Drone, gives entire FW team (and drones) +1 BS for ~20 points (limit 1)
  • No Markerlight Drone

    • Also, allowed to buy Devilfish transport for ~55 points. Allow upgrades to Gun Drones to the TL MP or TL PR drones for appropriate point point upgrades (+5 per MP drone, +10 per PR drone). Remove Seeker Missile upgrades. Other upgrades essentially unchanged. This puts a decked out FW team at ~200 points. This allows them to be more points effective with more direct use weapons available.

    A Crisis Suit team is 1 Team Leader with the ability to buy 0-2 Crisis Suits. Give all Crisis Suits BS 4. Base Load out for Crisis Suits to be PR, MP, Multitracker (same cost as current for that load-out as in the current codex). May exchange these weapon loadouts for the various other weapons available, for variable point costs. Upgrade to TL PR w/ Targeting Array for +15 points, or TL MP w/ Targeting Array for +10 points. Allow Crisis Suits to buy Drones from the above list. Allow 1 Crisis Suit team (all members) per army to be upgraded to have 1 Power Weapon, 1 Flamer, and Heavy Armor (2+ Armor Save) for ~15-20 points each (losing PR and MP and Multitracker). May upgrade Team Leader to Power Fist for +5 points for this specialty unit. Allow 1 Crisis Suit Commander and his 0-2 Bodyguards to take the Assault Upgrade, with Commander allowed Power Fist. Additionally, Shas'El/Shas'O may take Tau Shock Grenades for ~20 points which roll a D6 on assault:
  • 1 - No effect
  • 2-3 - Target unit has -1 Initiative (min 1)
  • 4-5 - Target unit has -1 WS (min 1)
  • 6 - Target unit's members each lose 1 attack (min 1)


    • Broadsides upgraded to be BS 4. Team Leader plus 0-2 Broadsides. Allow them to buy drones as per Crisis Suits. No other changes.

    Allow 1-3 Hammerheads and 1-3 Skyrays to be taken in each heavy slot.

    Drop Hammerheads by ~10-20 points each, keep same stats and upgrades (except Seeker Missile). Keeps them in contention with Broadsides, but allows a choice. May buy drone upgrades as per Devilfish.

    Skyrays are greatly changed. Remove the Seeker Missile Upgrade from other vehicles, but Seeker Missiles on the Skyray act as Multiple Blast that any Team Leader may call in using his Marker Light (Range 36", Str*, AP -, Rapid Fire). The Str* is to call in a missile strike, the Rapid Fire is to denote Final Protective Fire type situations. The strike hits with 72" Str 8 Ap3 Heavy 1, Multiple Barrage, 2D3 Blasts. No more 1 shot missiles. May fire itself if it pays +5 points for a markerlight pod. May only fire with markerlight targeting. Obviously each vehicle may only fire once per turn, so multiple strikes would require multiple vehicles, including for the Rapid Fire FPF. Keep the Smart Missile System. Allowed to buy upgrades as per current codex. ~165 points each.

    Give Vespids Rending in CC, better range on their gun.

    Give Kroot Scout, Furious Charge, and Stubborn. And the Knarloc as a Heavy Support Choice.

    A new client race?

    A Monstrous Creature walker/mech as an Elite. What I was thinking was a Super Crisis Suit, similar to a Dread Knight.

    These are just some ideas to make Tau more competitive, and would make them much more effective.

    Fluff reasons is that since the Tau have had to fight the Humans more and more, they have had no choice but to evolve their tactics... For the greater good.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2809824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2809824.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    Overcharge Shot: In response to the Zeist Campaign, where the Tau frequently found themselves outmatched by Space Marine forces, the Tau have developed a method of dumping extra energy into a shot from a pulse rifle. This enhanced version, while it takes considerable preparation immediately beforehand and has considerably less killing power, is capable of cutting through Power Armor and equivalent methods of protection. A Tau Fire Warrior armed with a Pulse Rifle may fire in this mode once per game.

    S: 4 AP: 3 Type: Heavy 1, 18" range.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2811806.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2811806.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Better:

    Overcharge Shot: In response to the Zeist Campaign, where the Tau frequently found themselves outmatched by Space Marine forces, the Tau have developed a method of dumping extra energy into a shot from a pulse rifle. This enhanced version, while it takes considerable preparation immediately beforehand and has considerably less killing power, is capable of cutting through Power Armor and equivalent methods of protection. A Tau Fire Warrior armed with a Pulse Rifle may fire in this mode once per game.

    S: 4 AP: 3 Type: Heavy 1, 18" range.


    Eh?

    Honestly, I don't see this as an upgrade, really. With your hot-pulse shot, you're hitting 50/50, wounding 50/50, with no invulnerable saves you're looking at 3 out of 10 tactical marines. If they roll well on their run or you're not at the maximum of 18", this means you're still getting raped by 7 MEQ on their turn in the assault. Standard FW now have a 50/50 to hit, with a 2/3s to wound chance for a total of 4 wounds, or 8 if the MEQ are within 15" for rapid fire. That means the MEQ save 2/3s, for 1 and 2/3 unsaved wounds over 15" or 4 unsaved wounds under 15". Odds are, rapid fire standard FW are better than your hot-pulse shot.

    With my upgrades, vs a MEQ of 170 points, having a Targetting Array Drone with a TL PR Drone (so 140 for the unit) means you have 12 pulse rifle shots hitting on 3+ over 15", with 1 Plasma shot hitting on 4+. So 8 Pulse Rifle shots and 75% of a Plasma means 5 1/3 wounds from the Pulse Rifles and 62.5% of a chance of an unsavable wound from the Plasma. That gives you 2 wounds and a little over 40% of an unsaved wound. Not that much different than before, right?

    But under 12", now you're getting 16 out of 24 Pulse Rifle hits and 1 of 2 Plasma Rifle hits. So 10 2/3 wounds from the Pulse Rifles and 5/6 of a wound from the Plasma Rifle. MEQ saves leave you 4 and a skosh under 40% of a wound. So, a 140 point Tau FW team has almost halved the Space Marine Unit coming in just this turn. Assuming 3 tactical marines survived to assault (2.40ish wounds from the first round of shooting and 4.40ish wounds from second round of shooting), means that those 3 marines would probably kill 2 (1.55ish unsaved wounds, on average) FW, and then probably have 1 casualty in return. The FW would then need to take a Morale test for a 7 (Team Leader less 1 for the difference in wounds), which is a 50/50. In that case, the FW would have an equal chance to get cut down in the Sweeping Advance as of getting away, but that's the breaks, really. Considering they killed about their point value (140 for 140 points of tactical squad), that's a pretty good result. With a reasonably decked out SM Tactical Squad and a fully decked out FW team (both with Transportation) each busting in the 220+ point range, I would call it an even fight with my changes.

    What do you think of my suggested changes?]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2812057.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2812057.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ BS Markerlight token on first.

    Your changes are edging towards overpowered.

    Also: Of course you're getting raped in assault. You're Tau. You're supposed to get raped in assault.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2813607.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2813607.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ tbh

    Tau arn't that bad against marines i beat a deathwing army 8:4 in anialation]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2813629.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2813629.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Well, obviously, anything you shoot you should put a +1 BS Markerlight token on first.


    This is the main problem; you shouldn't have to purchase a second unit or expensive upgrades in order to have a unit do the job you bought it for. If I buy a Space Marine for the points they are now, I do not expect to then have to buy them a bolter, a bolt pistol, a ccw and power armour; it is for this reason that I don't expect to buy a Fire Warrior, and then have to buy other things so that they can actually do their job.

    My Pathfinders are usually too busy removing cover saves from vehicle smoke or buildings so my crisis suits and railguns can lay into them, I can't be having 6 pathfinders waste their markerlights on one target that my FWs want to shoot at when my crisis suits and railguns are targeting more important things; I need a way for my Fire Warriors to reliably shoot something without having to be babysat by Pathfinders, their markerlight shots should be used to make your shooting better, not allow you to actually shoot well in the first place.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2813764.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2813764.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ HQ and 1 Elite Slot) who specialize in assault, I haven't suggested any changes to their assault capability. And all they'll really do is probably get murdered in CC by a more specialized assault unit or a unit with more dudes.

    However, the changes I have suggested make it more likely that the Tau can possibly STOP an assault from getting to them. You know, what they should be able to do, since they're supposedly the best shooting army in the game (which they're not). All my changes did was give the Tau FW (specialized shooting troops) the possibilty to stop a generic take all comers MEQ (generalists, decent at everything) with shooting for roughly equivalent points in a reliable manner (IE: average dice rolls). You know, beat them in shooting. Shouldn't they be able to do that?

    You are saying that the changes are overpowered; how so? On average dice rolls with two rounds of shooting, they still didn't stop the MEQ. Are they any worse than any of the other new codices? I don't think so. If you do think so, what changes/tweaks do you see in my suggestions that should be changed?


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Avatar 720 wrote:
    Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Well, obviously, anything you shoot you should put a +1 BS Markerlight token on first.


    This is the main problem; you shouldn't have to purchase a second unit or expensive upgrades in order to have a unit do the job you bought it for. If I buy a Space Marine for the points they are now, I do not expect to then have to buy them a bolter, a bolt pistol, a ccw and power armour; it is for this reason that I don't expect to buy a Fire Warrior, and then have to buy other things so that they can actually do their job.

    My Pathfinders are usually too busy removing cover saves from vehicle smoke or buildings so my crisis suits and railguns can lay into them, I can't be having 6 pathfinders waste their markerlights on one target that my FWs want to shoot at when my crisis suits and railguns are targeting more important things; I need a way for my Fire Warriors to reliably shoot something without having to be babysat by Pathfinders, their markerlight shots should be used to make your shooting better, not allow you to actually shoot well in the first place.


    Ditto.

    What do you think of my suggestions? I think they give (in general) the Tau a slight shooting edge while maintaining their overall incompetence in assault.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2813923.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2813923.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ

    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    also in general yea they do suck in cc but with thier 4+ regular save they have surprising staying power...true they wont do much but they will hold up the enemy for at least a turn if theres no power weapons involved]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2814973.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2814973.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ
    polari wrote:For the firewarriors and markerlight issue the shas'ui can take a markerlight if you have overlapping fields of fire have them markerlight for each other. i dont even have pathfinders in my army i just use firewarriors and stealth teams and honestly its psych out for the opponents cuz its not just 1 unit with markrelights they need to worry about


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    also in general yea they do suck in cc but with thier 4+ regular save they have surprising staying power...true they wont do much but they will hold up the enemy for at least a turn if theres no power weapons involved


    ...Who doesn't take a power weapon(s) in their list? ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815365.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815365.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ lol but eitherway tau can take a surprising beating sometimes]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815418.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815418.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
    polari wrote:For the firewarriors and markerlight issue the shas'ui can take a markerlight if you have overlapping fields of fire have them markerlight for each other. i dont even have pathfinders in my army i just use firewarriors and stealth teams and honestly its psych out for the opponents cuz its not just 1 unit with markrelights they need to worry about


    And what happens when those lone markerlights miss 50% of the time? At least with Pathfinders, what you intend to light up is usually lit up; with single markerlights you need to hit, otherwise you need another markerlight to tear away from its intended target and light up the other instead, and if that misses you need another etc. etc.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815459.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815459.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ fw and stealth teams thats 3-5 markerlights on several targets instead of just 1


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    and i never markerlight more then 2-3 units so there is at least 1 that hits]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815503.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815503.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ
    polari wrote:True its a 50/50 chance but its not puttin all your eggs in 1 basket and between my fw and stealth teams thats 3-5 markerlights on several targets instead of just 1


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    and i never markerlight more then 2-3 units so there is at least 1 that hits


    So, 1 markerlight...giving you BS 4...for 1 unit...

    Okay. So since the Tau are just fine in your opinion, perhaps we should stop taking up so much of your time, whilst we discuss upgrades we would like to see in the next Codex? ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815745.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815745.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815757.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815757.page GMT Re:Tau vs MEQ OP

    When have tau been lacking against MEQ? We've got resonably (for 4th ed) priced melta and plasma weaponry that will wound on 2+, for starters. In combination with that, we have great anti transport capabilities which will unhorse those MEQs/ TEQs quickly.

    All you have to do versus MEQ/ TEQ with Tau is focus one/ two units down a turn and then rinse and repeat, markerlights contributing greatly by getting rid of those pesky cover saves.

    As for your suggestions, they seem VERY cheesy with little to no orginal thought, all you are doing is 'eww, I don't like this, why not make it a little bit better to completly fit my needs'



    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815819.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815819.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    mythological wrote:@ OP

    When have tau been lacking against MEQ? We've got resonably (for 4th ed) priced melta and plasma weaponry that will wound on 2+, for starters. In combination with that, we have great anti transport capabilities which will unhorse those MEQs/ TEQs quickly.

    All you have to do versus MEQ/ TEQ with Tau is focus one/ two units down a turn and then rinse and repeat, markerlights contributing greatly by getting rid of those pesky cover saves.

    As for your suggestions, they seem VERY cheesy with little to no orginal thought, all you are doing is 'eww, I don't like this, why not make it a little bit better to completly fit my needs'


    Are you talking to me, or to GW? I kid, I kid.

    What would you suggest then?]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815872.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815872.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ IMHO, the big things the Tau need are:

    Decent HQ Choices: I think that if the new tau codex follows the template of the most recent 5th edition codex hq choices, which are specific leaders give access/ upgrades to units, then tau get an instant competiveness boost. The reasoning would be that no longer would one have to field FW (and a devilfish to keep them alive) and maybe replace them with better Suits.

    Lowering Cost: This one will be a gimmie as it is the trend for the 5th edition codexes so far, right now I can field a good amount of suits, but, hopefully, with the new codex I will be able to field more! and more=good

    Another Vehicle Chassis: For a super-advanced Space Civilization, the tau seem to be behind in the fast transport department, all I want would be a venom-like transport which could carry a min sized FW squad around and zoom to get objectives, without costing me an arm and a leg (I'm looking at you, Devilfish)

    New Units: Right now there are 1-2 competitive builds in the tau codex, so some more variety of units would be great. I, for one, would love to have XV-9s in my fast attack FOC, and maybe some more auxilaries to spice things up (both are likely)

    Meh, I think Tau could be competitive right now, it seems to be that way in my local meta game]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815922.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815922.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ fw teams bout 8-9 crisis 9 stealth 2 broadsides a hammerhead and a pirahna...new suits and vehicles would be great and some more of the other races in the greater good too]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815957.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2815957.page GMT Re:Tau vs MEQ
    mythological wrote:@ OP

    When have tau been lacking against MEQ? We've got resonably (for 4th ed) priced melta and plasma weaponry that will wound on 2+, for starters. In combination with that, we have great anti transport capabilities which will unhorse those MEQs/ TEQs quickly.

    All you have to do versus MEQ/ TEQ with Tau is focus one/ two units down a turn and then rinse and repeat, markerlights contributing greatly by getting rid of those pesky cover saves.

    As for your suggestions, they seem VERY cheesy with little to no orginal thought, all you are doing is 'eww, I don't like this, why not make it a little bit better to completly fit my needs'





    First, you say we have a lot of 2+ wounding plasma. Not true at all. We have 2 units that can take these weapons, and one of them should never take them. The other costs ridiculous amounts of points fully kitted out. A marine costs 16 points. Crisis suits fully kitted out in things that can kill a marine are around 60 pts. With a BS of 3, they will only take out an average of 1-1.5 marines a turn, without taking into account the potential of shooting and assaulting, while being in rapid fire range. Railguns should never be used against infantry, so those are out of the question. Second, i wish to refute your point about focusing. Yes, focusing can be effective against MEQ. But, look at the big picture. You spend all of your time focusing the entire army on that one unit, and potentially kill it. Great, now you have to worry about the other 1400 pts worth of units which will most likely assault you on the next turn. Most other armies now don't have to focus their entire army just to kill 5-10 marines, they usually have a specific squad that can do that. Our weakness is that we either have to focus our entire army on MEQs/TEQs to kill them for good, or we have to ignore them for other, potentially more pressing targets, leaving said ignored unit to potentially assault us the next turn. Tau are horrible in assault; this is common knowledge. So, we need to be either good or very good in shooting. As of now, we get outshot by ORKS. I mean, sheesh. If the most advanced and shooty army in the galaxy get outshot by orks, then something's seriously wrong. I'm not saying my changes are the best, nor that they should be implemented. I was just giving ideas that could potentially further the Greater Good
    /rant]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816007.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816007.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ MEQs i only need 1 round of shooting with a crisis suit to either wipe em out or to bring em below 50% and yea the point diff is big crisis suits are elites and if your still in assault range after jumping away then you were too close to begin with and there is plenty of plasma since it should be mandatory for suits unless you have em with a flamer/fusion build....and in all my years ive never seen orks outshoot tau yea they have pure numbrs bt they cant shoot for sh*t ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816077.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816077.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
    ok what is your list? for MEQs i only need 1 round of shooting with a crisis suit to either wipe em out or to bring em below 50%


    Statistically impossible unless they're running tiny units and you happen to get lucky.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816087.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816087.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816107.page GMT Tau vs MEQ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816166.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816166.page GMT Tau vs MEQ tac team]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816176.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816176.page GMT Tau vs MEQ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816225.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816225.page GMT Tau vs MEQ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816247.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816247.page GMT Re:Tau vs MEQ the point im trying to make is that it is possible]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816267.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816267.page GMT Tau vs MEQ ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816278.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816278.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
    The point i'm trying to make is that it's not plausible; how often will I let a horde of Ork Boyz reach my fire warriors? How often will I kill said boyz with the fire warriors? The answer to both of these is not very often at all, which is the same answer to 'how often will 3 crisis suits be able to kill 10 space marines in 1 turn of shooting?'.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816280.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816280.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    First, you say we have a lot of 2+ wounding plasma. Not true at all. We have 2 units that can take these weapons, and one of them should never take them. The other costs ridiculous amounts of points fully kitted out.

    A marine costs 16 points. Crisis suits fully kitted out in things that can kill a marine are around 60 pts. With a BS of 3, they will only take out an average of 1-1.5 marines a turn, without taking into account the potential of shooting and assaulting, while being in rapid fire range.

    Railguns should never be used against infantry, so those are out of the question.

    Second, i wish to refute your point about focusing. Yes, focusing can be effective against MEQ. But, look at the big picture. You spend all of your time focusing the entire army on that one unit, and potentially kill it. Great, now you have to worry about the other 1400 pts worth of units which will most likely assault you on the next turn. Most other armies now don't have to focus their entire army just to kill 5-10 marines, they usually have a specific squad that can do that.

    Our weakness is that we either have to focus our entire army on MEQs/TEQs to kill them for good, or we have to ignore them for other, potentially more pressing targets, leaving said ignored unit to potentially assault us the next turn. Tau are horrible in assault; this is common knowledge. So, we need to be either good or very good in shooting. As of now, we get outshot by ORKS. I mean, sheesh. If the most advanced and shooty army in the galaxy get outshot by orks, then something's seriously wrong.

    I'm not saying my changes are the best, nor that they should be implemented. I was just giving ideas that could potentially further the Greater Good
    /rant


    Split up your post so it stopped hurting my eyes

    True, we only have two plasma carriers in the tau army, but you know what, your going to have alot of the units which *can* carry plasma, and that 62 point suit not only has 2 wounds, but is a jack of all trades, which can take down vehicles, worth the points. And honestly, how many other things are you spending points on in your army aside from suits?

    You say that it is detrimental to focus fire, I differ in my opinion as you have discounted pathfinders in your argument AND you are assuming that I have to completly annialate the unit to reduce their threat level. All I have to do is get rid of the plasma or melta or powerfist and that squad becomes way less of a theat, of course if I have to wipe out a MEQ squad completly off an objective, then it would take more then 1-2 units, but almost all armies need the same amount of firepower to dislodge that squad from cover.

    I don't like debating on the basis of 'should', but facing any MEQ army, their transports should be gone by turn 2. Then that 1400 points of MEQ seems less scary walking towards you.

    Going back to my original point, taking out an anti tank weapon in a MEQ squad if fine enough for me because it stops them from assualting my units. Wait wha...how does that work?

    blocking units: kroot, piranhas, devilfish, maybe a hammerhead, will be able to get in the way of the squad and make it assualt the unit I want it to assualt. Kroot are fine because they are as dirt cheap as tau can get and will die on your opponent's assualt phase to a dedicated assualt unit, and will tarpit a regular marine squad. The vehicles are nice because of multi-trackers to let them shoot while going 12", which makes your opponent have to hit on 6s in their assualt phase. ANNNND if you have the points, flechettes dischargers are always fun

    The reason tau are fine against MEQ is not the overwelming firepower they produce, but the way they can cripple and stall MEQ/ TEQ armies in a pinch

    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816470.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816470.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    mythological wrote:Split up your post so it stopped hurting my eyes

    True, we only have two plasma carriers in the tau army, but you know what, your going to have alot of the units which *can* carry plasma, and that 62 point suit not only has 2 wounds, but is a jack of all trades, which can take down vehicles, worth the points. And honestly, how many other things are you spending points on in your army aside from suits?

    You say that it is detrimental to focus fire, I differ in my opinion as you have discounted pathfinders in your argument AND you are assuming that I have to completly annialate the unit to reduce their threat level. All I have to do is get rid of the plasma or melta or powerfist and that squad becomes way less of a theat, of course if I have to wipe out a MEQ squad completly off an objective, then it would take more then 1-2 units, but almost all armies need the same amount of firepower to dislodge that squad from cover.

    I don't like debating on the basis of 'should', but facing any MEQ army, their transports should be gone by turn 2. Then that 1400 points of MEQ seems less scary walking towards you.

    Going back to my original point, taking out an anti tank weapon in a MEQ squad if fine enough for me because it stops them from assualting my units. Wait wha...how does that work?

    blocking units: kroot, piranhas, devilfish, maybe a hammerhead, will be able to get in the way of the squad and make it assualt the unit I want it to assualt. Kroot are fine because they are as dirt cheap as tau can get and will die on your opponent's assualt phase to a dedicated assualt unit, and will tarpit a regular marine squad. The vehicles are nice because of multi-trackers to let them shoot while going 12", which makes your opponent have to hit on 6s in their assualt phase. ANNNND if you have the points, flechettes dischargers are always fun

    The reason tau are fine against MEQ is not the overwelming firepower they produce, but the way they can cripple and stall MEQ/ TEQ armies in a pinch



    Problem is, in order to get rid of that powerfist/melta, you're gonna have to wipe the entire squad, because the opponent will know what you're trying to do, and he will obviously protect the melta over the bolter/fist. Second, i think that pathfinders are one of the best units in the codex, and that every army should run at least one squad. But, as said before, pathfinders will only negate cover saves, not armor saves which MEQ thrive on, and which tau has a difficult time cracking. Next, about the kroot/piranhas: they are useful units, but you're essentially giving up KP just to protect one squad of crisis or FW, which most likely will still not be able to kill those MEQ in the next turns of shooting. When they see that you do use the units for blocking/bubblewrapping, they'll just move to a different part of the army to attack instead. Tau are missing the 2 things that can severely hamper MEQs: widespread low AP weapons, and/or torrent of fire. None of our weapons (affordable ones anyway) can release torrent of fire enough to force enough saves to be failed. The 2 weapons we do have that are low AP (fusion/plasma) are both either expensive, or limited in range. As said before, the railgun should not fire at anything that isnt a vehicle or a 2+ save. Next, objective games are extremely difficult to play in aganst MEQ, as it is nearly impossible for tau to push marines off an objective, as the main way is assault, and massed firepower will still take attention away from the other parts of the army that are also a threat, even though they might be footing it all the way across the board.

    /textwall]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816964.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2816964.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ FYI, the only reason I use MEQ is because it's the standard, not because the Tau have any specific problem fighting them. Tau have a problem fighting anyone. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817121.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817121.page GMT Tau vs MEQ MSU (Broadsides with target locks and Fire Knife or Death Rain).

    With the right tactics, Tau can deal with MEQ. The one army that they do have problems against is SW Missile Spam, mass BA FNP Assault Marines, and all TH/SS Terminator armies.

    I'm trying out an experimental build where I mass 100 Kroots, which is the equivalent of 100 bolters, but at BS3.

    If you have the models, you can try this list out:

    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/365294.page]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817168.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817168.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ MEQs are the same as against horde.

    The only list I simply cannot beat is a drop pod list. I only have 1000pts but I usually either draw or win. Im not scared to play it dirty and castle either.

    The issue with the Tau codex is that about 50% of the units are useless. So as soon as you get past 1000pts your thinking "what should I add?" the answer is "add what I already have"

    The useful units are actually quite good at working together, its just if you asked 5 Tau players to make a 1500pts army list, im pretty sure they would all come back with very similar lists.

    Tau troops choices are weak, kroot need assault weapons, but used en masse with the addition of kroot hounds they can actually make a mess of whatever they are fighting(case and point I wiped out an incubi squad last night while only taking 6 casualties).

    I think if the Tau codex was redone it wouldnt be a huge overhaul, just some tweeking here and there.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817503.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817503.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    I generally find my chances against MEQs are the same as against horde.

    The only list I simply cannot beat is a drop pod list. I only have 1000pts but I usually either draw or win. Im not scared to play it dirty and castle either.

    The issue with the Tau codex is that about 50% of the units are useless. So as soon as you get past 1000pts your thinking "what should I add?" the answer is "add what I already have"

    The useful units are actually quite good at working together, its just if you asked 5 Tau players to make a 1500pts army list, im pretty sure they would all come back with very similar lists.

    Tau troops choices are weak, kroot need assault weapons, but used en masse with the addition of kroot hounds they can actually make a mess of whatever they are fighting(case and point I wiped out an incubi squad last night while only taking 6 casualties).

    I think if the Tau codex was redone it wouldnt be a huge overhaul, just some tweeking here and there.


    +1

    The tau don't need abundunt plasma or a huge torrent of fire because that would just be OTT, in my opinion, as it stand right now (speaking from my own experience) MEQ/ TEQ are my favorite army to face as tau because it is so easy to predict their moves and out-play them.

    The worst army for tau to play against would probably be horde armies, because of the lack of firepower as was mentioned before, well, unless you have flechettes on your vehicles

    And as to the comment on KP: 1. only a primary senario 1/3 of the time, if that 2. So what, I lost a kroot KP in order to leave a MEQ/ TEQ unit in the open, works for me. You can't worry about KPs when your Tau because you WILL lose units, you just got to aim at those nice vehicles we have no problem taking out to rack up the easy KPs ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817649.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817649.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ
    The new codex would have to move away from this reliance. Also adding mobility for troops would be great. So many times ive found myself in objective games trying to take an objective but being scared of moving away from my own castle.

    Kroot maybe the answer but you cant guarantee the outflank will come in the right place and they will be able to kill whatever is on the objective.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817836.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817836.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ BS as sm scouts amuses me greatly. What about just upgrading all units bs by one or two? Seems to me a shooty army should have decent ballistic skill, not the same ballistic skills as a newbie in a space marine force or a standard guardsman >.>]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817874.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817874.page GMT Tau vs MEQ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817879.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2817879.page GMT Re:Tau vs MEQ MEQ is that they are incapable of dealing with deep-striking units. The thing is the 30" range (though the tau have a low bs and a high ap) lets you have a least a couple of turns of picking off people (even if it is only one or two) before you get to assult ranges. Not many armys can effectively out range tau (except mayby the Guard) and it is useful (though not all the time) to use that range.

    However i concour the point that XV8's NEED a higher BS to be competative. It seem absurd to have such an expensive unit upgraded with a expensive gun to have a 50% chance of it being wasted, and lets face it XV8's are not that sutble they will draw alot of fire and without a better chance of hitting ii find they can be left somewhat defenceless.

    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2819379.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2819379.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ MEQs are a very difficult army to deal with as Tau. Is it because of the fact they are MEQs? No, it's because the main MEQ army (Space Marines) can field many varied armies that are competative.

    Land Raider spam is quite easy to deal with, but have you tried dealing with Khan outflanks or Shrike armies? Deep-striking causes all hell to break loose, and the abundance of cover means our markerlights go on whittling it down before they can bring our BS up (if there are any markers left).

    The weapons MEQs can take are also varied; they can take heavy bolters to pelt our units with fire from a safe distance, they can take plasma to shoot down crisis suits that dare to get close (meaning that we need to keep jumping to 24" and back out, so we only ever get 1 plasma rifle shot per suit, with the only other weapon we could possibly take being a missile pod because nothing else can out-range plasmaguns).

    Meltaguns are their answer to suits that get close; try and take on a squad in cover, you might kill one with your fusion blaster of rapid-fired plasma rifle, but next turn they'll move out, blast you in the face with a meltagun and rapid fire any other wounds down with bolters. Missile launchers also allow them to snipe our suits before they even get close.

    Space Wolves are one of our worst match-ups. If they take a rune priest with Jaws in a drop pod and plant him behind our lines, we can say goodbye to any broadsides he can line himself up with. Razorback spam might seem good, but if they spend turn 1 moving up and popping smoke, next turn all there'll be is empty transports firing lascannons at us. With Long Fangs splitting krak fire between crisis teams, we can do absolutely nothing.

    Blood Angels are almost as bad, their strengths being able to deep-strike with great efficiency and blast you apart you with melta weapons whilst blood lance snipes anything dangerous.

    GKs are easier due to their small units, but with no psychic defense whatosever, we've exposed a huge weakness. If the plasma siphon gets FAQ'd to include Plasma Rifles, we might as well watch the effectiveness of our crisis suits fly out of the window. Whilst not an auto-lose, it is a match-up that where any mistake or bad luck we have will work against us moreso than versus other armies.

    Necrons are also a very tough opponent unless you tailor towards them by using kroot hordes. All they need are large warriors units and a res orb. Tau cannot put out enough shots to kill off large amounts of necrons in range of a res orb lord before they reach us.

    This happened to me, 40 warriors and a lord + c'tan and monolith (the latter two were ignored mostly, since it was a KP game and the only possibly way I could win was to phase them out, since I had too many relatively squishy units) were my opponents, and by the end of the game i'd killed 13 warriors. 13. With a fireknife HQ, 3 elite slots worth of fireknife crisis suits, two broadsides, two hammerheads, 30 fire warriors and a pathfinder unit.

    Sisters will also be difficult. Exorcists can blast our crisis suits to kingdom come, and we won't be able to put out enough firepower to kill anything against a competent sisters player.

    Even vanilla SM give us trouble. A fast army will have us on our knees very early on, and since our only troops are fragile, objectives games will be an uphill struggle as we fight to keep our troops alive until we can make late objective grabs.

    Sure, we can beat most of these armies, but can we do it with a standard all-comers list? No, we cannot, and THAT is why we need an overhaul. Just because we CAN do it, doesn't mean that we will. We CAN beat necrons warrior spam + orb, but will that same list beat a BA army or a standard SM army? It's doubtful, you'll have to change your list, but will that changed list then be able to beat that Sisters army or that Shrike army? Again, you'd need to change it.

    When an army list needs to be changed in order to have a chance against your next opponent, something is wrong.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2819532.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2819532.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ BS for suits but then again the bodyguard and shas'o have the bs 4 and the shas'el has the bs5]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2819533.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2819533.page GMT Re:Tau vs MEQ MEQ armies: Is there any way for tau to kill just a basic 190 pt marine squad in cover without resorting to directing 300+ points toward or kitting suits just for that purpose? Therein lies my criticism of the army and its potential against MEQ. Judging the difficulty of a whole army just to deal with a commonly seen 1/7 of another.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820300.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820300.page GMT Re:Tau vs MEQ
    The armies you pointed out (aside from Necrons, SOB, and Space Marines, which are easily dealt with by using proper blocking units, which you had none of when you described your army) are very competitive and it is not just Tau that have a problem with them

    Its like saying that a nuclear bomb would destroy humans, but neglecting to say that the thing would take out anything else as well.

    While you make very valid points which cannot be argued, the fact is that ALL armies have to deal with the same things, and in many cases with the same difficulty as we do. I'm not saying that tau are uber-competitive, but am saying that they can hold their own in a fight (as long as its not one of the knife variety )]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820340.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820340.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ
    Apart from that, the lasguns markerlights you have to flash at the squad will take up the majority of the points used on taking the marines down, and removing cover is the cheapest way of killing them.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820343.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820343.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ
    Avatar 720 wrote:
    polari wrote:For the firewarriors and markerlight issue the shas'ui can take a markerlight if you have overlapping fields of fire have them markerlight for each other. i dont even have pathfinders in my army i just use firewarriors and stealth teams and honestly its psych out for the opponents cuz its not just 1 unit with markrelights they need to worry about


    And what happens when those lone markerlights miss 50% of the time? At least with Pathfinders, what you intend to light up is usually lit up; with single markerlights you need to hit, otherwise you need another markerlight to tear away from its intended target and light up the other instead, and if that misses you need another etc. etc.
    The one time I went up against an army with Markerlight Pathfinders, I was able to take them down by turn three with sustained fire from Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons. Meanwhile, whenever I go up against Markerlight Shas'ui, I have to take the units down one at a time, which is a lot more painstaking.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820360.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820360.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    mythological wrote:@ Avatar

    The armies you pointed out (aside from Necrons, SOB, and Space Marines, which are easily dealt with by using proper blocking units, which you had none of when you described your army) are very competitive and it is not just Tau that have a problem with them

    Its like saying that a nuclear bomb would destroy humans, but neglecting to say that the thing would take out anything else as well.

    While you make very valid points which cannot be argued, the fact is that ALL armies have to deal with the same things, and in many cases with the same difficulty as we do. I'm not saying that tau are uber-competitive, but am saying that they can hold their own in a fight (as long as its not one of the knife variety )


    Easily dealt with? No. Kroot will be flamered down by sisters, hosed down by marines, and the nightbringer can simply go in and hold up kroot for all eternity if the warriors haven't already flayed them down with 20/40 shots (13.34 hits from non-rapid fired gauss sees 8.89 dead kroot. In any sized unit that's more than 25% casualties and they're testing on Ld7 to not run the hell away. Proper blocking units don't work against armies that can kill/ignore them. The only way I could kill that necron army was if I had maxed out my troops with Kroot; the monolith's particle whip, the nightbringer and the hail of fire would elimnate any 'blocking units' I could put in the way, and would've lost me even more kill points.

    I'm not arguing that Tau can't hold themselves in a fight, i'm arguing against how MEQ armies are seen as easy wins for Tau, when they aren't.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:
    Avatar 720 wrote:
    polari wrote:For the firewarriors and markerlight issue the shas'ui can take a markerlight if you have overlapping fields of fire have them markerlight for each other. i dont even have pathfinders in my army i just use firewarriors and stealth teams and honestly its psych out for the opponents cuz its not just 1 unit with markrelights they need to worry about


    And what happens when those lone markerlights miss 50% of the time? At least with Pathfinders, what you intend to light up is usually lit up; with single markerlights you need to hit, otherwise you need another markerlight to tear away from its intended target and light up the other instead, and if that misses you need another etc. etc.
    The one time I went up against an army with Markerlight Pathfinders, I was able to take them down by turn three with sustained fire from Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons. Meanwhile, whenever I go up against Markerlight Shas'ui, I have to take the units down one at a time, which is a lot more painstaking.


    'One time' and 'heavy bolters and assault cannons' being the main points i'm going to focus on here. One time means sod all; I killed a unit of 6 harlies win a round of CC with 10 Fire Warriors one time, does that mean FWs are now win in CC?

    Plus the 'heavy bolters and assault cannons' needing to be sustained before they killed them took up how many points of your army exactly? The pathfinders might've died, but the Tau army spent 3 turns without heavy bolters and assault cannons being aimed at anything else.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820390.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2820390.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    Easily dealt with? No. Kroot will be flamered down by sisters, hosed down by marines, and the nightbringer can simply go in and hold up kroot for all eternity if the warriors haven't already flayed them down with 20/40 shots (13.34 hits from non-rapid fired gauss sees 8.89 dead kroot. In any sized unit that's more than 25% casualties and they're testing on Ld7 to not run the hell away. Proper blocking units don't work against armies that can kill/ignore them. The only way I could kill that necron army was if I had maxed out my troops with Kroot; the monolith's particle whip, the nightbringer and the hail of fire would elimnate any 'blocking units' I could put in the way, and would've lost me even more kill points.

    I'm not arguing that Tau can't hold themselves in a fight, i'm arguing against how MEQ armies are seen as easy wins for Tau, when they aren't.


    weird...I always was under the illusion that a meatshield of kroot was to get in the way of something and die...hmph

    The important part is that the enemy is attacking my 100 point (10 kroot, 5 hounds for me) unit which are getting in the way off more important resourse.

    You can say they die for the Greater Good

    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2821453.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2821453.page GMT     Tau vs MEQ
    If it's an objectives game, you just lost yourself a scoring unit; if it's KPs, you just gave away a free KP and didn't actually stop anything.

    Sisters won't really care if they're flamering Kroot, because their weapons won't exactly be shooting much else unless you were careless with your crisis placement. If you can lay down two flamer templates and 16 bolter shots on a unit, then do so, you'll have moved anyway so chances are your bolters can't shoot anything else.

    Necrons, again, will have been moving, so will only have the kroot to shoot-up, and why wouldn't you? Running would mean that next turn you'd just be assaulted.

    Similarly so with marines, bolters + moving = nothing to shoot but the kroot in your way.

    Bubble-wrapping your units is better than simply sticking a unit between you and the enemy, but since sisters will be blasting your suits apart with S8 AP1 Exorcist missiles and Necrons can particle whip the bubble-wrap unit into oblivion, it's only really vanilla marines that will have to chew through them when they get there, since there's a lack of blast templates that wouldn't be better spent elsewhere; only the Whirlwind really offers you a reliable bubble-wrap-away template, and it just so happens that they're never taken.

    Dreadnoughts deep-striking might be an issue. He comes out and hides behind the pod, pod dies, he shoots and assaults, he wins.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2821511.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2821511.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ MEQ: assuming that they get BS4, would an opportunity to make BCs into rail rifles be an okay thing for Stealthsuits to get?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2821963.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2821963.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
    Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:
    Avatar 720 wrote:
    polari wrote:For the firewarriors and markerlight issue the shas'ui can take a markerlight if you have overlapping fields of fire have them markerlight for each other. i dont even have pathfinders in my army i just use firewarriors and stealth teams and honestly its psych out for the opponents cuz its not just 1 unit with markrelights they need to worry about


    And what happens when those lone markerlights miss 50% of the time? At least with Pathfinders, what you intend to light up is usually lit up; with single markerlights you need to hit, otherwise you need another markerlight to tear away from its intended target and light up the other instead, and if that misses you need another etc. etc.
    The one time I went up against an army with Markerlight Pathfinders, I was able to take them down by turn three with sustained fire from Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons. Meanwhile, whenever I go up against Markerlight Shas'ui, I have to take the units down one at a time, which is a lot more painstaking.



    Which is the main reason i do it lol plus it lets me mark several enemy units and not just one....well that and i dont have pathfinders


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    woo im a sniper drone now lol]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2822449.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2822449.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ
    Your facts about the kroot meatshield can be argued with this fact


    rockprime said:
    Here's my big question about tau vs MEQ armies: Is there any way for tau to kill just a basic 190 pt marine squad in cover without resorting to directing 300+ points toward or kitting suits just for that purpose? Therein lies my criticism of the army and its potential against MEQ. Judging the difficulty of a whole army just to deal with a commonly seen 1/7 of another.


    This argument can be reversed by saying that the 100 point squad of kroot just took the firepower of how many points of units, I know that a squad of sisters/ necrons/ SM aren't THAT much, but it is still an investment they have to make. That is why the use of a meatshield is not giving up a free KP, its diverting resourses that could be gunning for more important KPs (crisis suits, etc). You will argue that the weapons that the basic infantry sent to kill the kroot can't do s**t against our harder hitters, and in most cases you will be right.

    However, I'm not necessarily worried about the enemy's shooting at my valuable units, but the possiblity of my suits getting tied up in combat. The kroot get in the way of said assualts and even absorb them, in leu of my suits taking the hit.

    And you are right, high str low AP weapons hurt suits, and meh, the suits would die no matter what, as stated above, its the assualting which stinks]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2825135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2825135.page GMT     Re:Tau vs MEQ MEQ or Horde armies, when playing individual games, right now our only real issue is within tournys or campaigns because our lists must change dramitcally to effectively to play against each different type of army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2839224.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2839224.page GMT Tau vs MEQ
    I've played against SM a lot and with a fairly Plasma heavy list I win more than I lose, by a lot in fact. Get them out of transports and they suffer a lot. Normally as they are in the open!

    Bit confused by some comments about "one unit should be good at killing one unit" I.E Not having to focus fire on units at a time. Erm...that's the whole point of Tau and why I love them. You have to use unit synergy to get the maximum out of everything and THAT is a lot more fun than going "X unit kicks Y units ass, point and fire/assault" - THAT is boring.

    As a few of the sensible Tau players have mentioned before, we ROCK at taking down mech-armies. I don't care what anyone says. I normally stop most mech armies on turn 1/2. Remember, even a immobilise/stunned will put the hurt on for at least one turn. That's one turn longer to fire at!



    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2839718.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/368484/2839718.page GMT