Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
A battlecannon is AP3. The pred variant is fine with no changes as long as it becomes AP3.

The Russ variant is just better in every way than the standard russ for 15pts more, and almost better than the demolisher in a lot of respects. My vote is no for it. It would have to be small blast to be balanced between the vanilla russ and the demolisher. Even then, I still don't see the point in making this variant, as it'll likely be better than at least one of the variants you think is bad (Vanquisher, Demolisher, Vanilla).

Lumbering Behemoth doesn't exist anymore; Russes are heavy vehicles.

Finally, the names don't work at all. Give them ordinary pattern names that would actually make sense for the rest of the Imperium.

I'll reduce the rear armor to 10 and bring it up to 170 points. It's also not intended to be a regular battle cannon. I could possibly make the AP 2 and upgrade like the bastion breecher shells. I'll try play testing it to see how it works.

Kronstadt and Aleksandra are both worlds, which follow the regular naming pattern of variations.

What exactly do you mean that Lumbering Behemoth doesn't exist? It's in the codex.

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:


BS 5 is still a leap from BS 3

The fast option is also completely unfluffy for a Leman Russ, they are the exact opposite

Kronstadt and Aleksandra are also very "Sturmkriegy" which instantly makes their names stand out from pretty much every variant in the Imperium (LR Crusader/Redeemer Land Speeder storm Leman Russ Demolisher All are descriptive not from where they were discovered/invented)

 Blacksails wrote:

 Ribon Fox wrote:
How about no on both accounts as both are very unfluffy and just wrong.

While I agree with the sentiment, I'll post more justification.

The problem with the Russ variant is that it steps on three other variants. It has the AP of the Demolisher and Vanquisher, with the range of the Vanilla and Vanquisher, with the penetration of the Vanquisher, and the large blast, high strength of the Vanilla and Demolisher. If this variant existed with AV11 and 165pts, there is very little reason to take any of those three options. The only thing that hurts it; being ordnance, also affects two of the other variants as well. Basically, with this tank, the only reason to take the Demo is for dealing with multi-wound T5 models. Certainly useful, but then factor in the range and armour piercing ability and your variant is clearly superior. There's no drawback, no trade-off, no reason why other than to make something better because you want it to. Its not balanced and its not fluff either; there already exist several battle tank variants that shoot large ordnance.

Lumbering behemoth was FAQ'ed out, the Russ is now a heavy vehicle, which hurt all the ordnance variants quite a bit.

The predator variant is more reasonable, but it again feels like you're just trying to make something better than it needs to be. For all intents and purposes, it's a battlecannon, which would make it AP3. There is no reason for it to be AP2 other than to fulfill your desire to make it unquestionably better than the Vindicator or other pred variants. If you want a large blast, anti-tank pred variant, use the Infernus pattern with the Melta cannon option. Its an 18" large blast melta shot.

As for the names, why would they be named specifically after some planets in your sector? Assuming they are variants produced by a forge world under some sort of supervision of the mechanicus, then these variants would also be available to everyone else to a limited degree. Therefore, it logically followed the variants would be given a name similar to every other pattern that exists. Naming them after planets from your sector doesn't endear anyone to your fluff, which I know has received a lot of flak and negative attention. Give them normal names.

At the end of the day, the Russ variant doesn't really add anything original, and the pred variant needs tweaking. However, I also believe the pred doesn't need a battlecannon-esque option, as FW has a few patterns that fill that role, like the Infernus and Executioner patterns.

*EDIT* And that's without pointing out the obvious flaws in the pricing and availability of the options. Pintle heavy bolters (lol, no), BS5 for an IG tank (lolwut), cheaper hull lascannon for no reason, and fast leman russes all add up to be a little (well a lot actually) on the overpowered/silly side of things.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

There's also names like Mars Pattern Rhino or Armageddon Pattern Basilisk that follow the same pattern.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:


I see the problem of having it filling the roles of too many of the Leman Russ variants. I was thinking what they would "actually" do in the fluff, by making it as effective as possible. Combining only two tanks would be better, and having some better downside that would make the original variants still considerable for using. Two separate tanks could be a better solution, which one combining the Vanquisher and the Battle Cannon to make up for the shortcomings of the Vanquisher, and another to be an intermediate between the Demolisher and the Battle Cannon, possibly with S7. It might actually help a lot if I drop the existing gun to S7. I'm also taking out all the other random stuff.