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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Need help with this list.... <br /> The list I need help with is for only ever going against, space wolves and blood angels.<br /> This is a list I used in a local campaign  in which This army did very well... But I want to build on it... Help me take it up to 1500pts and 2000pts, kind regards, crazy daemon guy....<br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>Hq</span>:<br /> Bloodthirster 250<br /> <br /> Bloodthirster 250<br /> <br /> <br /> Troops:<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> <br /> <br /> Total:1000pts<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> What do you think I should do?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Apr 2013 01:35:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ An'arkh'ad'nron]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If you're only ever going to fight <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(95);'>MEQ</span> then Bloodletters are certainly a great choice. Personally I'd buff the units up a bit more to 15/20ish Bloodletters as you go up in points, probably dropping one of the units to help buff up the others. Bloodthirsters are great, but I'm not sure two of them is necessary. 2 at 1kpts is great because your enemy won't have much that can handle them, but as you go up in pts I think it'd be smarter to swap one out for something that'll give you more tactical flexibility. A Lord of Change could bring some shooting into your list, and some added strength against flyers, which you are more likely to run into at higher points levels (use a prescienced Flickering Fire against them and most flyers will be in for the pain). Fateweaver's not a bad choice, either. He pretty much weaponizes the Warp Storm table and would serve as an excellent shooty compliment to your assault oriented Blood Thirster. A little pricy, though.<br /> <br /> Beyond that, I'm not sure how to advise you. There are quite a few ways to build Daemons now, even when going mono god. Do you want a semi-horde? Are you looking for a lot of big scary things like Soul Grinders, Daemon Princes, and the like? Are you interested in allies? Do you want to go with a "cav" list with lots of Flesh Hounds and Seekers? Mono god or skittles?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Apr 2013 04:51:26]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ zamnath]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'm going to assume you still want your mono-Khorne theme as in your previous thread.<br /> <br /> In which case, I'd say drop the second Bloodthirster in 1500 points or higher. Buff the first one with 2 Greater Rewards.<br /> <br /> Find the points to get in a pack of Flesh Hounds with a Herald of Khorne on a Juggernaut with the Exalted Locus of Wrath. If you like taking risks, you can try giving him the Grimoire of True Names. That unit will be your anti-semihorde. Be wary of Terminators... speaking of which, maybe a Lesser Reward on the Herald could be good.<br /> <br /> Grab an Aegis Defence Line with a Quadgun manned by a 10 Man Bloodletter squad for funny twin-linked BS5 shots. Could serve as anti-1 flyer or anti-transport.<br /> <br /> Grab a Skullcannon for pseudo-grenades and then maybe 2 Soul Grinders with Phlegm Bombardment as you go up in points.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Apr 2013 05:02:02]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Lou_Cypher]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ i am really loving this new list.... i am loving the flesh hounds!!!!<br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>:<br /> Bloodthirster with a greater reward<br /> bloodthirster<br /> <br /> Troops:<br /> 10 bloodletters<br /> 10 bloodletters<br /> 10 bloodletters<br /> 10 bloodletters<br /> 10 bloodletters<br /> <br /> Fast attack:<br /> 10 flesh hounds<br /> 10 flesh hounds<br /> 10 flesh hounds<br /> <br /> <br /> well.. i deploy it all on the board... get a 1st turn charge with the flesh hounds... then run the bloodletters up, whilst nothing shoots at them... the bloodthirsters take out the big tanks, and the rest is simple...<br /> <br /> the only downside to this list is against highly mechanised lists...<br /> <br /> thanks again Lou_Cypher.... your advice is always great.<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Apr 2013 13:48:03]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ An'arkh'ad'nron]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Just remember if you use the scout move on the hounds, you won't be able to charge 1st turn.<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Apr 2013 16:36:15]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ masquerade81]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ damn.... i totally forgot... well.... back to the drawing board...<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> so, im back with my stock 1000pt list, and i am honestly struggling with ideas.... i am moving away from mono khorne.... any fresh ideas...<br /> <br /> any thoughts?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Apr 2013 17:44:16]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ An'arkh'ad'nron]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Skullcannons can provide some ranged support and make up for the lack of grenades khorne deamons have. Soulgrinders can provide ranged support and skyfire. Both can keep the khorne theme.<br /> <br /> Deamon princes can also be useful, but I would steer away from tying too many points up in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(630);'>FMCs</span>. Dropping a bloodthirster for a few heralds could improve the quality of your hordes, then pick up a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span> to keep up the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(630);'>FMC</span> heat.<br /> <br /> You could try mono khorne hordes with a portalglyph and suprise the opponent with pink horrors coming out of it. <br /> <br /> I would be very warry of fielding furies. Any kind of shooty army could likely force a leadership check in a single round of shooting, and then the points are wasted. Consider investing the points somewhere else, but if you try them, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(269);'>Id</span> be happy to hear the result, maybe they will be useful. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Apr 2013 18:50:37]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ cryhavok]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Why not a few bigger squads led by heralds, and smaller ones behind to play clean up/capture objectives? I also second cryhavocs suggestions. I know you have shunned crushers a bit, but i recommend you test a unit with karanak before hand, even if you just proxy. Their speed can replace the hounds threat from before and backed by thirster can really put pressure down fast in the game. Good luck <img src="/s/i/a/c944477abc92c1c101da485e07ff06d8.gif" border="0">]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Apr 2013 18:57:56]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ TheComedian]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Yeah, I completely forgot that grinders can have marks... Cheers cryhavok.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Apr 2013 22:16:06]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ An'arkh'ad'nron]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/8eaafa05fe664ce487461213819771aa.png" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/517617/5454577.page"><b>masquerade81 wrote:</b></a><br/>Just remember if you use the scout move on the hounds, you won't be able to charge 1st turn.<br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Keep in mind that they can't charge <i>the </i>first player turn, not <i>their </i>first player turn, so if you go second you can charge. I actually think Flesh Hounds are great, but not in the small units An'Ark has listed. 15 or 20 man units with Heralds of Khorne on Juggers can be really devastating. <br /> <br /> Once again, An'Ark: you should pick something that you want to do with your list and then tool it to excel at that. Once you've done that, put up the re-tooled list and we should be able to help you much better.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 00:36:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ zamnath]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ so, hang on.... so i still scout as usuall. then the enemy has a turn, then its my turn as normal?<br /> if thats the case its still good...<br /> <br /> <br /> in fact no its not.... if i scout to 12" off their deployment zone, he would charge me after firing pistols, killing 1... then he attacks, killing 2.5... i attack back , he loses 2.... i have to make a leadership on a 2... so i take more wounds, another hound dies... which leaves me with 6 flesh hounds, one has lost a wound, this will survive till at least the start of my turn 2, which should give me enough time to charge my bloodletters in.<br /> <br /> hmmm.... so it does roughly what i want it to do... even if it dies a little quick. do you reckon i should just get 50 more bloodletters, and raise the squad sizes to 20 each?<br /> <br /> would that be better?<br /> <br /> <br /> although this would be a really boring list... <br /> <br /> nest thing to look at would be soul grinders, and bloodcrushers again. <br /> <br /> as the purpose of the remaining 500pts, it mainly to act as a juicy target for the enemy that will allow my letters to move up.<br /> <br /> and if he still goes for letters, the unit could deal out some damage in itself...<br /> <br /> i am going to start a poll elsewhere, bloodcrushers or flesh hounds...<br /> <br /> i know its not the prettiest poll but here it is.<br /> <a href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517908.page" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517908.page</a><br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> so... which list,<br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>: <br /> Bloodthirster with a greater reward 270<br /> bloodthirster 250<br /> <br /> Troops: <br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> <br /> Fast attack: <br /> 10 flesh hounds 160<br /> 10 flesh hounds 160<br /> 10 flesh hounds 160<br /> <br /> <br /> or...<br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>:<br /> Bloodthirster 250 <br /> Bloodthirster 250 <br /> <br /> Troops: <br /> 20 bloodletters 200 <br /> 20 bloodletters 200 <br /> 20 bloodletters 200 <br /> 20 bloodletters 200 <br /> 20 bloodletters 100 <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> or something completely different?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 09:01:01]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ An'arkh'ad'nron]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Why not this<br /> <br /> bloodthirster, 2 greater rewards<br /> blood thirstr 2 greater rewards<br /> <br /> 10 bloodletters<br /> 10 bloodletters<br /> 10 bloodletters<br /> 10 bloodletters<br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span> flight armour 2 greater rewards <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(99);'>MoK</span><br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span> flight armour 2 greater rewards <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(99);'>MoK</span><br /> <br /> 1500pts dead<br /> <br /> Only thing about the above list and your list, not much to camp on objectives, unless you are going for the tabling stragety each game and to be fair with two <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(15);'>BT</span>'s and two <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span>'s it is possible!]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 10:21:31]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ MarkyMark]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Do you think 40 bloodletters is enough?<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 10:45:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ An'arkh'ad'nron]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(72);'>IMO</span> yes, think about it, if you were facing two blood thirsters and two <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span>'s and 40 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(327);'>BL</span>'s what are you going to shoot at?.  all four <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(93);'>MC</span>;s will be flying for the firs turn they advance up the field so they need 6's to hit and higher then average toughness plus good saves on all (3plus then a invul then hopefully 4plus <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(265);'>FNP</span> or it will not die from the greater rewards) means not many shots will get through, if they shoot your blood letters they are going to have 4 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(630);'>FMC</span>'s wrecking face, there isnt much that can stand up to a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(15);'>BT</span> or a khorne <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span> really, not that I have found at least! (from using my tzeentch <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span>'s).  <br /> <br />   I would reserve at least one blood letter squad if I was playing the mission (i.e to hold a objective), keep another one backfield and advance the other two squads up for objectives or to assault, the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span>'s and the non warlord <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(15);'>BT</span> are there to kill and be killed, I would not like to face this list i'll tell you that much!]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 11:44:16]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ MarkyMark]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/517617/5456950.page"><b>An'arkh'ad'nron wrote:</b></a><br/>so, hang on.... so i still scout as usuall. then the enemy has a turn, then its my turn as normal?<br /> if thats the case its still good...<br /> <br /> <br /> in fact no its not.... if i scout to 12" off their deployment zone, he would charge me after firing pistols, killing 1... then he attacks, killing 2.5... i attack back , he loses 2.... i have to make a leadership on a 2... so i take more wounds, another hound dies... which leaves me with 6 flesh hounds, one has lost a wound, this will survive till at least the start of my turn 2, which should give me enough time to charge my bloodletters in.<br /> <br /> hmmm.... so it does roughly what i want it to do... even if it dies a little quick. do you reckon i should just get 50 more bloodletters, and raise the squad sizes to 20 each?<br /> <br /> would that be better?<br /> <br /> <br /> although this would be a really boring list... <br /> <br /> nest thing to look at would be soul grinders, and bloodcrushers again. <br /> <br /> as the purpose of the remaining 500pts, it mainly to act as a juicy target for the enemy that will allow my letters to move up.<br /> <br /> and if he still goes for letters, the unit could deal out some damage in itself...<br /> <br /> i am going to start a poll elsewhere, bloodcrushers or flesh hounds...<br /> <br /> i know its not the prettiest poll but here it is.<br /> <a href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517908.page" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517908.page</a><br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> so... which list,<br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>: <br /> Bloodthirster with a greater reward 270<br /> bloodthirster 250<br /> <br /> Troops: <br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> 10 bloodletters 100<br /> <br /> Fast attack: <br /> 10 flesh hounds 160<br /> 10 flesh hounds 160<br /> 10 flesh hounds 160<br /> <br /> <br /> or...<br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>:<br /> Bloodthirster 250 <br /> Bloodthirster 250 <br /> <br /> Troops: <br /> 20 bloodletters 200 <br /> 20 bloodletters 200 <br /> 20 bloodletters 200 <br /> 20 bloodletters 200 <br /> 20 bloodletters 100 <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> or something completely different?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Beasts have a 12" move, fleet (re-roll run and charge dice), and move through cover, so Flesh Hounds can maneuver pretty reliably to get the charge without being in most other units' charge ranges. That said, it doesn't sound like you like the idea of using Hounds too much. Horde/Big Gribbly spam are equally valid tactics. With your horde list I'd recommend bringing either some Crushers with icons, some 10 man Letter units with Instrument and Icons, or one of the other fast icon bearers to help your letters get into combat more easily. For the big gribbly monster spam list the list that MarkyMark made looks pretty fun. I think you'd be better off grabbing two/three 15 man letter units rather than the four 10 man units and an exalted reward on one of you big gribblies so that you can grab portalglyph to help you get some betters scoring units and concentrate all the rest of your list on killing the enemy.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 12:03:40]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ zamnath]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ what if i swap all the rewards for a soulgrinder?<br /> <br /> bloodthirster  250<br /> bloodthirster  250<br /> <br /> 10 bloodletters  100<br /> 10 bloodletters  100<br /> 10 bloodletters  100<br /> 10 bloodletters  100<br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span> flight armour <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(99);'>MoK</span>  220<br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>Dp</span> flight armour <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(99);'>MoK</span>  220<br /> soulgrinder phlegm <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(99);'>MoK</span>  160<br /> <br /> 1500pts exactly...<br /> would that be better do you reckon? or are the rewards really worth it?<br /> i know the greater rewards are amazing, but is it the best use of points?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 17:06:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ An'arkh'ad'nron]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I think you're missing out on how good the Khorne Heralds are.  Skulltaker and Karnak are both amazing.  Imagine having a herald in each of your bloodletter units.  <br /> <br /> Also, Daemon Princes do quite well with 2 rolls on the Greater Rewards table.  I'd give both your princes 2 rolls on greater, change the phlegm cannon on the Grinder to the S6 AP4 torrent flamer, drop a blood thirster for 4 heralds, maybe change in one of the bloodletter units for a unit of flesh hounds.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 17:20:18]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ loreweaver]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ i dont see the point of using heralds, sure for 100pts they can really buff a unit, but one for each squad... 400pts? no, not only would the enemy kill more bloodletters, making the locus less useful, but i would lose some of my anti tank.<br /> <br /> one thing that i am set on is having the two bloodthirsters....<br /> the rest is up for discussion. <br /> <br /> also, as i only ever seem to play <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(95);'>meq</span> lists, the phlegm really is the best optiom, as not only is the soulgrinder a firemagnet, but it is quite survivable, meaning i could still get its points back, by taking out a squad...<br /> <br /> do you honestly thing tooled up daemonprinces are better than a soulgrinder and two standandish daemon princes?<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> i have never liked daemon princes, and i am probably being a little biased here. thanks anyway for the help loreweaver<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> or... how about this... best of both worlds?<br /> <br /> <font color='red'>bloodthirster greater reward  270 <br /> bloodthirster greater reward  270 <br /> <br /> 10 bloodletters 100 <br /> 10 bloodletters 100 <br /> 10 bloodletters 100 <br /> 10 bloodletters 100 <br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span> flight armour greater reward <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(99);'>MoK</span> 240 <br /> soulgrinder phlegm <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(99);'>MoK</span> 160 <br /> soulgrinder phlegm <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(99);'>MoK</span> 160 </font><br /> <br /> total:1500pts exactly?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 17:58:14]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ An'arkh'ad'nron]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Love it.<br /> <br /> Can you massage in any more Greater Rewards?  They're all pretty stellar (except for the 3+ armour, because you have it already, but then you can grab the +1S sword or the khorne weapon)<br /> <br /> I'm more of a Tzeentch guy myself, so my brain was thinking, "even a nekkid 45 point herald is good" but then the khornate ones are a bit pricier.  2 Blood thirsters is indeed mighty scary, and they vector strike at fairly high strength.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 19:25:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ loreweaver]]></author>
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				<title>Need help: Chaos daemons</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ tzeench is my no,2 but i think its unplayable now... i dont like giving marines feel no pain... not nice...<br /> <br /> and thanks for the feedback. i will be buying two soulgrinders tomorrow. i have been wanting an excuse to get one.<br /> <br /> cheers loreweaver, you have been a real help to me.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Apr 2013 19:32:38]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ An'arkh'ad'nron]]></author>
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