<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Ethereals... Old Ones??"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Ethereals... Old Ones?? My first thought was the most obvious, they were powered by latent psychic energy, in which case why can't abilities that effect psychics work on them? (I know, it wouldn't be the first time GW has ignored it's own fluff).
But now since the release of 6th ed. I am now certain, and hope others have thought along the same lines, that the second thought is the more likely.
I believe the Ethereal are either the Old Ones in disguise or more likely are direct minions of the Old Ones.
It's always been a weak ass theory of mine until I read the following passage,

"... during a battle on Arthas Moloch, a desert world save for strange monuments and ruined shrines of some long-forgotten culture. All of the Ethereals in Farsight's expedition were slain by an unknown enemy."
Although I'm aware there are more 'unknown enemies' in 40k than there are M&M's, this scream Necrons to me..
But just as important as what killed the Ethereals is WHY, after all, for a race that wants all life dead equally, to dissapear the moment the last Ethereal is dead stinks of a grudge match!! And there is only one race the Necrons hate above all other.
To me this would explain the mystical grip the Ethereals have over not just the Tau but other races as well, it would also explain the prodigious rate of expansion and techno-evolution, that was formerly only held by either Dark Age humanity or the Old Ones and their tools.

What are some other theories you guys might have??]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5516842.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5516842.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
The Old Ones died out 60 million years ago, and those not killed by the C'Tan/Necrons fled, and then degenerated into Lizardman armies on feral worlds. The Tau were, very recently, still discovering fire.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517102.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517102.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517220.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517220.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones??
I'm not sure if this is canon or not (not too familiar with Tau), but you claim that Ethereals are immune to abilities that target psykers.

The Old Ones, according to every source we have, were a race of (immensely powerful) psykers.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517249.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517249.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones?? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517300.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517300.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517337.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517337.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones??

also, I always thought dawnblade was a Necron weapon even before the new edition of Necrons, making them space Tomb Kings, maybe Farsight left the empire because he found out something the Ethereals either don't know, or are keeping from the Tau.


Just look at this thing, just screams Egyptians in space..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517374.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517374.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
 Spazamataz wrote:
As I said, it is more likely that they are direct tools of the old ones.. More to the point, is anyone going to actually have a conversation about what they could be..? Oh that's right.. Dakka..


Well if you want speculation, np.

The ethereals could be divergent species of Tau that developed in geographic isolation from the "main" group of Tau that they came to dominate. Say they were isolated on an island or island continent, rapidly evolved their "powers" due to mutation, random genetic drift, natural selection and break down of pre-existing coadaptive gene complexes as a result of a genetic bottle neck and inbreeding greatly reducing their amount of natural genetic variation. Then "voila" you have etherals that come back into contact with the original Tau population and dominate them.

I am going with this theory over the "Old Ones" because my understanding of the background is that the "old Ones" are extinct.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517397.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517397.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As stated many times in the fluff, the Old Ones ran away after being defeated never to be seen again (big univers lots of holes to hide in), Im not sure if devolving into lizardmen was canon but its certainly accepted fluff.. As for the Darwinism theory.. It's too logical!! Stop making sense!!! This isn't the 21st century it's 40k!!! I kid ;p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ps JWhex, explain the lights in the sky that came just before the first appearance with your precious scientific logic!
I'm old school Imperial.. If its weird its a witch!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517398.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517398.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? Ignore me

I made a post about Necrons and Tau both not having a nose, but I then looked at Necrons and they do ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517531.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517531.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517775.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517775.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
 Spazamataz wrote:
Good point Dancing Wolf, never thought of that... And it does explain alot


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As stated many times in the fluff, the Old Ones ran away after being defeated never to be seen again (big univers lots of holes to hide in), Im not sure if devolving into lizardmen was canon but its certainly accepted fluff.. As for the Darwinism theory.. It's too logical!! Stop making sense!!! This isn't the 21st century it's 40k!!! I kid ;p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ps JWhex, explain the lights in the sky that came just before the first appearance with your precious scientific logic!
I'm old school Imperial.. If its weird its a witch!!


Too easy, those lights were obviously coincidental unrelated atmospheric phenomena such as lighting, northern lights, meteorites, etc. Or they are simply embellishments added to the story by later generations of Tau and furthered by the Etherals for propaganda purposes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517840.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517840.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? So any ideas on who runs the black library... I mean Craftworld eldar created the craft worlds duing the fall didn't they? So does that mean it came after the fall or are the craftworlds based on the black library???

"Oh look I've gone cross-eyed."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517861.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517861.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
On a serious note, if your hypothesis was true, why are Necrons and Tau able to ally under the ally matrix?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517868.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517868.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517913.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517913.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
Not to mention, as the Necrons have encountered Tau, and Ethereals before, it would be well known to them if they were the Old ones.

The Necrons would have purged them (Again) If they really were Old ones.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517949.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5517949.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I still think they are genetically engineered by whoever runs the black library


Isn't that the Harlequins?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518015.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518015.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? And no Sasori I will NEVER take those blasted Aliied Matrices seriously in all my life... Blood Angels and Necrons??? No allies I nTyranids even though Genestealer cults have infested whole TANK corps fighting besides the swarm in fluff.. Sisters and Black Templar hate each other (even though they both hunt witches... wtf) etc etc etc... Alliance matrix was the single greatest idea with the least amount of thought to come out of GW... and that's saying something... Rage Rant Ended]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518260.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518260.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
 Spazamataz wrote:
Harlequins have always been the guardians from the fluff I've read about it.. (hardly a source but hey)..
And no Sasori I will NEVER take those blasted Aliied Matrices seriously in all my life... Blood Angels and Necrons??? No allies I nTyranids even though Genestealer cults have infested whole TANK corps fighting besides the swarm in fluff.. Sisters and Black Templar hate each other (even though they both hunt witches... wtf) etc etc etc... Alliance matrix was the single greatest idea with the least amount of thought to come out of GW... and that's saying something... Rage Rant Ended


I didn't mention anything about the allies matrix in my post, so I don't quite know what you're going on about.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518265.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518265.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? Xyreal, my bad man sorry]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518279.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518279.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
 Sasori wrote:
The Old ones are Extinct.

Not to mention, as the Necrons have encountered Tau, and Ethereals before, it would be well known to them if they were the Old ones.

The Necrons would have purged them (Again) If they really were Old ones.
That's like saying the Necrons would have purged the Eldar, since the Eldar are basically their newest mortal nemesis.

Considering that the Necrons have only been waking up en masse for a (relatively) short while, and are still getting their gak together as a faction, it isn't at all unbelievable for the 'Crons to be aware of what the Ethereals are, and yet still not gone on the offensive.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518336.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518336.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
BlaxicanX wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
The Old ones are Extinct.

Not to mention, as the Necrons have encountered Tau, and Ethereals before, it would be well known to them if they were the Old ones.

The Necrons would have purged them (Again) If they really were Old ones.
That's like saying the Necrons would have purged the Eldar, since the Eldar are basically their newest mortal nemesis.

Considering that the Necrons have only been waking up en masse for a (relatively) short while, and are still getting their gak together as a faction, it isn't at all unbelievable for the 'Crons to be aware of what the Ethereals are, and yet still not gone on the offensive.


Considering the Necrons hated the Old Ones, above all else, we would at least been informed from fluff in their perspective, about it ,at the very least.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518348.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518348.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? GW is keen to inform us of anything these days.. especially if it doesn't make them money directly..
I can admit the hints would have been far less subtle if they truly were minions of the Old Ones.. maybe.
I mostly just wanted to see different theories of were the fluff could lead.. so thanks to everyone's 2c
And thanks especially for those who weren't afraid to throw outlandish theories into the mix..
Expect more Fluff conspiracies soon!!! or make your own ;p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
If Ethereals were Old Ones, they wouldn't die like little bitches like they do in the fluff.


... they DO die like little bitches... ;p have you seen there stats?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518456.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5518456.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones?? FFG stuff that GW has stated is NOT in line with their BL publications (which don't, to my knowing, touch on the subject).

That being said, what little we do know, is that they

"Were a coalition of races that crossed the ocean of stars and seeded this galaxy with life". So not only were they the first life in the galaxy, they came from (presumably) another galaxy where there are still more of them. The Old ones that were not eaten by the C'tan either died later, or journeyed "home" to whatever galaxy they came from.

The Tau are most likely not related to them since they share so little in common.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5519191.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5519191.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
 Spazamataz wrote:
Two things wrong with that, first they can't have all died out if there were survivors, second they were stick eating savages until the Ethereals came along from nowhere, so they clearly aren't natural, hence the discussion


Their civilization, and the majority of their population, were killed. Those few who survived became Galactic non-entities, playing no further part in the development of the galaxy, its races, or its technologies. They descended into barbarism, and became a product line for GW, called "Lizardmen".

And there is a fair amount of canon for the Old Ones (inasmuch as GW has canon), as they've been mentioned in various books and Codices as far back as 2nd edition, at least.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5519494.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5519494.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? To me, this points towards Eldar intervention.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5519591.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5519591.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones??
 En Excelsis wrote:
There is no cannon on the Old Ones. The only information on them comes from some FFG stuff that GW has stated is NOT in line with their BL publications (which don't, to my knowing, touch on the subject).

That being said, what little we do know, is that they

"Were a coalition of races that crossed the ocean of stars and seeded this galaxy with life". So not only were they the first life in the galaxy, they came from (presumably) another galaxy where there are still more of them. The Old ones that were not eaten by the C'tan either died later, or journeyed "home" to whatever galaxy they came from.

The Tau are most likely not related to them since they share so little in common.


They and the necrontyr were the first life in the galaxy. And I would say they didn't come from a different galaxy as "ocean of stars" couldn't possibly describe the space in between galaxies, not to mention they built and used the web-way for FTL travel which (to my knowledge) does not go beyond our galaxy.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520091.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520091.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520521.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520521.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones??
NECRON codex page 6 paragraph 2

"...Old ones, the first of all the galaxy's sentient life....."

I'll search for the quote from the other codex that states how the Old ones "Crossed the Sea of Stars INTO the galaxy"

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520552.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520552.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones??
They figured that the great plan would work better if the next race to rule the stars was not a psycic race.

With this in mind the Eldar travelled to Loquit, homeworld of the Q'orl. There the Eldar asked for a young future Q'orl queen.

When the Q'orl declined the Eldar stole one anyway. Using the DNA of the Q'orl and probably several other genetic strains, the Eldar created the Tau.

They put the Tau far from both Humans and Q'orl for fear that the Q'orl would dominate the new Tau with the pheremones they produced.

Soon the Imperium discoved the world the Eldar deposited the Tau upon.

To protect the young race the Eldar created a vast warp storm around a small area of space, leaving the Tau safely inside (or safe as could be with Orks around).

The Tau developed quickly but fought each other in violent wars. The Eldar forsee the coming of the Tyranids, the waking of the Necrons, the arrival of the 13th Black Crusade ect.

To help get the great plan back on track the Eldar create the Ethereals and drop them off on the Tau homeworld.

The Ethereals begin their rule over the Tau race, taking orders from noone save the Eldar.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520583.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520583.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
Incidentally, the write-up on the Q'orl on Lexicanum reads like a particularly bad bit of fanfiction, even going so far as to refer to the Eldar as "pointy ears" in the article, rather than as an in-universe quote. I'd... really not place much stock in the tale.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520638.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520638.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
 Psienesis wrote:
That... doesn't make any sense, really. The Eldar would not need a psychic-blunt race to fight the Necrons, as neither they nor the C'Tan were psykers.

Incidentally, the write-up on the Q'orl on Lexicanum reads like a particularly bad bit of fanfiction, even going so far as to refer to the Eldar as "pointy ears" in the article, rather than as an in-universe quote. I'd... really not place much stock in the tale.


The Eldar didn't need the Tau to fight Necrons. The need the Tau to become the 5th masters of the universe.

Old Ones > Necrons > Eldar > Human > Tau

Also, I don't visit Lexicanum.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520722.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520722.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones??
And the Eldar didn't need the Tau to fight the Necrons *then*, but they definitely need them to fight the Necrons *now*. The Eldar and the Necrons are ancient foes, from the dawn of time and are, in fact, the entire reason the Eldar and the Orks exist.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520782.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520782.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones??
This is the only thing I don't think gets an explination in any sources.

The Eldar were a product of the Old Ones and eventually they dominated the galaxy.

The Eldar now believe the Human race has had their turn at the wheel.

They created the Tau to take control next. The Tau evolved both physically and technologically faster than any other known race.

There is nothing to say that won't continue. The Eldar created the Ethereals so that they could have a direct imput into the rise of the Tau.

I'm not trying to say I'm the final authority on Tau or anything, far from it. I just read the books and codexes and draw conclusions from what is there.

There is very little to go on from what GW and the BL have given us. Basically at any point you could ask yourself "why would they..." or "how could that possibly..." the answer doesn't exist yet.

More mystery for the plot of 40k. Once upon a time we knew almost nothing about Primarchs, now they have models and rules. Whose to say in some future we could see Old One models,

or a book about exactly how the Tau came to be. If 40k canon is not canon is canon, then it really doesn't matter. In the end, I just have a simple belief of where the Tau came.

It's just an added bonus that my opinion doesn't match up with alot of Tau players, and thus is a topic I get to talk about on these forums every few months.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520840.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5520840.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones?? need anyone for anything. They are arrogant in the extreme and it's likely that they would sooner kill the Tau outright than manipulate them for aid.

The Necrons are sort of a non-issue for the Eldar since they were all but pushed aside until the C'tan showed up and had the Old Ones for breakfast. Once the C'tan were removed from the equation the Necrons were pretty much screwed. They'd been deceived into a fate worse than death by the C'tan and without their masters they didn't have the power to combat the Eldar. Hence the dormancy.

The Eldar would have probably destroyed the Necrons completely had they not also been supremely stupid and brought about The Fall. Now neither the Necrons or the Eldar are a significant enough power to pose much threat to the Galaxy at large. And they are certainly not in a position to decide which race "gets a turn to rule". Nor would they be empowered to make such a thing happen if they tried.

The Tau are their own unique (albeit quite out-of-focus in the setting) race that has no ties to the existing races save that they share a back yard. All the nonsense over at Lexicanum (which I would like to remind peeps is a Wiki and therefore among the worst possible sources for information) is just silly fans grasping at straws and taking significant license when interpreting unofficial lore such as FFG, etc... (not an attack on Lexi specifically, just the nature of wikis in general).

The Tau are already such an eye-sore in the grimdark 40k setting without the Harry-Potter/Twilight level dribble from would-be authors... all these attempts to connect them to other races are idiotic in the extreme and only sharpen the contrast the tau faction is already plagued with.

Please just stop]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5523575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5523575.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones??
 En Excelsis wrote:
The Eldar don't need anyone for anything. They are arrogant in the extreme and it's likely that they would sooner kill the Tau outright than manipulate them for aid.


Except the Eldar manipulate everyone all the time. It's kind of their thing.

The Eldar would have probably destroyed the Necrons completely had they not also been supremely stupid and brought about The Fall.


Too bad the Fall was several million years after the Necrons tucked themselves in.

The Tau are their own unique (albeit quite out-of-focus in the setting) race that has no ties to the existing races save that they share a back yard.


Except those ties to the Eldar mentioned in 3 Tau codexes so far.

All the nonsense over at Lexicanum... ...is just silly fans grasping at straws and taking significant license when interpreting unofficial lore such as FFG, etc...


Again... I don't use Lexi or any wiki for that matter. I own the source materials. Oh and FFG stuff is no less "official" than BL.

The Tau are already such an eye-sore in the grimdark 40k setting...all these attempts to connect them to other races are idiotic in the extreme and only sharpen the contrast the tau faction is already plagued with.


Interesting opinion. The attempts made were by GW not fans. I guess GW is a bunch of idiots for trying to expand their lore and model range.

Please just stop


Absolutely not.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5524098.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5524098.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones??
 DeffDred wrote:
 En Excelsis wrote:
The Eldar don't need anyone for anything. They are arrogant in the extreme and it's likely that they would sooner kill the Tau outright than manipulate them for aid.


Except the Eldar manipulate everyone all the time. It's kind of their thing.


Totally true, plus the entire race is gearing up to die whilst their new god is born, they're arrogant enough to leave their mark upon another race, they were the Old One's greatest creation, in their own eyes, so it makes sense they'd give it a crack at playing god.

The Eldar would have probably destroyed the Necrons completely had they not also been supremely stupid and brought about The Fall.


Too bad the Fall was several million years after the Necrons tucked themselves in.


The fall was around the time one or two Tomb Worlds actually started to begin wake up protocols, at the dawn of the Great Crusade.

The Tau are their own unique (albeit quite out-of-focus in the setting) race that has no ties to the existing races save that they share a back yard.


Except those ties to the Eldar mentioned in 3 Tau codexes so far.


There's also hinted ties to the Necrontyr. Farsight's blade, the life spans, tech affinity. Nothing solid, but you know GW and hinting, but there's a tie there.

All the nonsense over at Lexicanum... ...is just silly fans grasping at straws and taking significant license when interpreting unofficial lore such as FFG, etc...


Again... I don't use Lexi or any wiki for that matter. I own the source materials. Oh and FFG stuff is no less "official" than BL.


Totally true, endorsed by GW, it's 'canon'.

The Tau are already such an eye-sore in the grimdark 40k setting...all these attempts to connect them to other races are idiotic in the extreme and only sharpen the contrast the tau faction is already plagued with.


Interesting opinion. The attempts made were by GW not fans. I guess GW is a bunch of idiots for trying to expand their lore and model range.


Most fan fluff on Tau is about false claims of Communism actually, very few people try to link them to other races.

Please just stop


Absolutely not.


I think you should stop, you've been told by two people now that all your points were wrong.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5526332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5526332.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? GC did not begin until 60 million years after the War in Heaven, which is when the Eldar and the Necron first fought. It has been so long since that era that the majority of Eldar (save one Craftworld... Iyanden, I think) have entirely forgotten that they were created to fight these guys.

Ten thousand years is not really that much time, comparatively, to the Eldar. They're not going to set up the Tau, who are as likely to invite the Necrons over for tea and biscuits as they are to actually resist them, as the new masters of the galaxy. The Eldar aren't stupid, the Tau do not offer anything, on a biological level, that lends them to being a dominant race on a galactic scale. They don't live long enough, for one, and the fact that their caste-system is reflected in varying biological markers indicates that, given enough time to develop it, a targeted biowarfare agent could decapitate their social structure entirely.

Want to wipe out the Tau? Introduce a genophage that targets only one of their castes. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5526806.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5526806.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5527347.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5527347.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones?? IIRC:

Tau Evolution: in the first two codices, there is a fluff piece on an imperial agent examining the tau genetics and concluding that somehow tau evolution has been manipulated to form the five castes. Not just the etherals, all the tau. Somehow they went from one type of tau caveman to the five different castes in less than a thousand years - the imperial scribe concluded that they were manipulated by an outside force.

Xenology made the genetic connection between eldar, humans, orks, hurd, and tau. Throughout the book the characters were noticing the old ones influence in the species being examined; without actually knowing about the old ones themselves. The tau were put into the genetic group of aliens that were modified by the old ones through cross species comparisons in Xenology.

The arrival of the etherals; a new caste of tau with the ability to control the tau, are dropped on the planet and take command of entire race overnight in a coordinated manner. The etherals ability to control the is pretty much established by the new codex. What isn’t, is why all the etherals preaching the same message instead of each being their own king? I am leaning towards the notion that the Greater Good, or the need for species/galactic wide cooperation is mixed into the genetic makeup of the etherals.

There were two cases which appeared to be divine intervention by the old ones; The freak warp storm that saved the caveman tau from being wiped out by the imperium. Not many forces exist in the 40K universe that could produce a freak warp storm on demand. And the alien space vessel dropped into their system for the tau to reverse engineer right when they were technologically developed enough to actually understand what they are looking at. Also the tau started out in the perfected place in the galaxy for them to started their empire.

I used to be of the opinion that there was a secret tier above the etherals that were governing the tau. Now I think that the tau etherals are programmed genetically to unite the tau the same way orks are programmed to fight and the Jokaero are programmed to build devices. The the old ones are completely hands off with the tau IMHO. Based on their relatively low technology and the fact that they been picking fights with the eldar its hard to imagine that the old ones are steering the ship.

It make perfect literary sense to have the tau be the product of the old ones particularly their placement in the galaxy, their resistance to the warp and weak warp presence, and the fact that the etherals seem genetical programmed to unite the galaxy in order. It is the perfect response by the surviving old ones to create a race like the tau after the arrival of chaos and actually directly connects the tau into the rest of 40K - just my two cents anyway.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5527842.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5527842.page GMT Re:Ethereals... Old Ones??
For those questioning why the Eldar would either create or involve themselves in the evolutionary path of a "psychically blunt" race, I would argue that if you wanted to set up a puppet empire to essentially take your place in the galaxy, you would probably want to ensure that you didn't sew the seeds of its destruction in the exact same way that your own species nearly went extinct. The Eldar, moreso than anyone, understand the risk of psychic potency.

Regarding the suggestion that the Tau "offer nothing" and that the "arrogant Eldar would simply kill them instead of use them" ... I would have to suggest that you examine the overall themes at hand in Eldar lore. They divine and manipulate the courses of fate, generally through their direct use of other species. There are an overwhelming number of examples of precisely this happening, as it saves the precious few Eldar lives that endure in the galaxy. And as to the arrogance, I agree, although I see that more as evidence of their willingness to do something as bold as directly intervene in the genetic history of an entire species. They would literally be "playing god" at that point, and that does sound quite like them in my opinion.

There's also the matter of the Eldar generally having an unusually benevolent perspective of the Tau. Eldrad himself is quoted as feeling strangely protective of the fledgling Tau empire. That is definitely -not- a normal sentiment of theirs, especially from such a prominent Eldar figure.

My guess is that if they were involved, it probably was not done as some sort of collectivist effort of all the Craftworlds working in harmony. My guess would be one Craftworld got some crazy idea in their head and ran with it. Remember that they are distinctly separate entities with individual cultures and ideals ... Eldar occasionally fight each other, after all.

Also, as a partial segway back to the OP's original theory and question, I would probably argue that the Eldar are the most "touched" by the Old Ones. It could be as natural as emulating the actions of your parents, at this point.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5528518.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5528518.page GMT Ethereals... Old Ones?? Time will tell what the GW fluffers bring out,
Thanks agai everyone who made the thread fun!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5530271.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/521573/5530271.page GMT