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That... doesn't make any sense, really. The Eldar would not need a psychic-blunt race to fight the Necrons, as neither they nor the C'Tan were psykers.

Incidentally, the write-up on the Q'orl on Lexicanum reads like a particularly bad bit of fanfiction, even going so far as to refer to the Eldar as "pointy ears" in the article, rather than as an in-universe quote. I'd... really not place much stock in the tale.

 Psienesis wrote:
That... doesn't make any sense, really. The Eldar would not need a psychic-blunt race to fight the Necrons, as neither they nor the C'Tan were psykers.

Incidentally, the write-up on the Q'orl on Lexicanum reads like a particularly bad bit of fanfiction, even going so far as to refer to the Eldar as "pointy ears" in the article, rather than as an in-universe quote. I'd... really not place much stock in the tale.

The Eldar didn't need the Tau to fight Necrons. The need the Tau to become the 5th masters of the universe.

Old Ones > Necrons > Eldar > Human > Tau

Also, I don't visit Lexicanum.

Why would the Eldar posit the Tau as the masters of the galaxy? That... makes no sense. The Tau simply aren't prepared, or equipped, for that kind of role.

And the Eldar didn't need the Tau to fight the Necrons *then*, but they definitely need them to fight the Necrons *now*. The Eldar and the Necrons are ancient foes, from the dawn of time and are, in fact, the entire reason the Eldar and the Orks exist.

The Great Plan seems to be an attempt to bring an over all balance to the galaxy.

This is the only thing I don't think gets an explination in any sources.

The Eldar were a product of the Old Ones and eventually they dominated the galaxy.

The Eldar now believe the Human race has had their turn at the wheel.

They created the Tau to take control next. The Tau evolved both physically and technologically faster than any other known race.

There is nothing to say that won't continue. The Eldar created the Ethereals so that they could have a direct imput into the rise of the Tau.

I'm not trying to say I'm the final authority on Tau or anything, far from it. I just read the books and codexes and draw conclusions from what is there.

There is very little to go on from what GW and the BL have given us. Basically at any point you could ask yourself "why would they..." or "how could that possibly..." the answer doesn't exist yet.

More mystery for the plot of 40k. Once upon a time we knew almost nothing about Primarchs, now they have models and rules. Whose to say in some future we could see Old One models,

or a book about exactly how the Tau came to be. If 40k canon is not canon is canon, then it really doesn't matter. In the end, I just have a simple belief of where the Tau came.

It's just an added bonus that my opinion doesn't match up with alot of Tau players, and thus is a topic I get to talk about on these forums every few months.

The Eldar don't need anyone for anything. They are arrogant in the extreme and it's likely that they would sooner kill the Tau outright than manipulate them for aid.

The Necrons are sort of a non-issue for the Eldar since they were all but pushed aside until the C'tan showed up and had the Old Ones for breakfast. Once the C'tan were removed from the equation the Necrons were pretty much screwed. They'd been deceived into a fate worse than death by the C'tan and without their masters they didn't have the power to combat the Eldar. Hence the dormancy.

The Eldar would have probably destroyed the Necrons completely had they not also been supremely stupid and brought about The Fall. Now neither the Necrons or the Eldar are a significant enough power to pose much threat to the Galaxy at large. And they are certainly not in a position to decide which race "gets a turn to rule". Nor would they be empowered to make such a thing happen if they tried.

The Tau are their own unique (albeit quite out-of-focus in the setting) race that has no ties to the existing races save that they share a back yard. All the nonsense over at Lexicanum (which I would like to remind peeps is a Wiki and therefore among the worst possible sources for information) is just silly fans grasping at straws and taking significant license when interpreting unofficial lore such as FFG, etc... (not an attack on Lexi specifically, just the nature of wikis in general).

The Tau are already such an eye-sore in the grimdark 40k setting without the Harry-Potter/Twilight level dribble from would-be authors... all these attempts to connect them to other races are idiotic in the extreme and only sharpen the contrast the tau faction is already plagued with.

Please just stop

 En Excelsis wrote:
The Eldar don't need anyone for anything. They are arrogant in the extreme and it's likely that they would sooner kill the Tau outright than manipulate them for aid.

Except the Eldar manipulate everyone all the time. It's kind of their thing.

The Eldar would have probably destroyed the Necrons completely had they not also been supremely stupid and brought about The Fall.

Too bad the Fall was several million years after the Necrons tucked themselves in.

The Tau are their own unique (albeit quite out-of-focus in the setting) race that has no ties to the existing races save that they share a back yard.

Except those ties to the Eldar mentioned in 3 Tau codexes so far.

All the nonsense over at Lexicanum... ...is just silly fans grasping at straws and taking significant license when interpreting unofficial lore such as FFG, etc...

Again... I don't use Lexi or any wiki for that matter. I own the source materials. Oh and FFG stuff is no less "official" than BL.

The Tau are already such an eye-sore in the grimdark 40k setting...all these attempts to connect them to other races are idiotic in the extreme and only sharpen the contrast the tau faction is already plagued with.

Interesting opinion. The attempts made were by GW not fans. I guess GW is a bunch of idiots for trying to expand their lore and model range.

Please just stop

Absolutely not.

 DeffDred wrote:

 En Excelsis wrote:
The Eldar don't need anyone for anything. They are arrogant in the extreme and it's likely that they would sooner kill the Tau outright than manipulate them for aid.

Except the Eldar manipulate everyone all the time. It's kind of their thing.

Totally true, plus the entire race is gearing up to die whilst their new god is born, they're arrogant enough to leave their mark upon another race, they were the Old One's greatest creation, in their own eyes, so it makes sense they'd give it a crack at playing god.

The Eldar would have probably destroyed the Necrons completely had they not also been supremely stupid and brought about The Fall.

Too bad the Fall was several million years after the Necrons tucked themselves in.

The fall was around the time one or two Tomb Worlds actually started to begin wake up protocols, at the dawn of the Great Crusade.

The Tau are their own unique (albeit quite out-of-focus in the setting) race that has no ties to the existing races save that they share a back yard.

Except those ties to the Eldar mentioned in 3 Tau codexes so far.

There's also hinted ties to the Necrontyr. Farsight's blade, the life spans, tech affinity. Nothing solid, but you know GW and hinting, but there's a tie there.

All the nonsense over at Lexicanum... ...is just silly fans grasping at straws and taking significant license when interpreting unofficial lore such as FFG, etc...

Again... I don't use Lexi or any wiki for that matter. I own the source materials. Oh and FFG stuff is no less "official" than BL.

Totally true, endorsed by GW, it's 'canon'.

The Tau are already such an eye-sore in the grimdark 40k setting...all these attempts to connect them to other races are idiotic in the extreme and only sharpen the contrast the tau faction is already plagued with.

Interesting opinion. The attempts made were by GW not fans. I guess GW is a bunch of idiots for trying to expand their lore and model range.

Most fan fluff on Tau is about false claims of Communism actually, very few people try to link them to other races.

Please just stop

Absolutely not.

Yes, but the GC did not begin until 60 million years after the War in Heaven, which is when the Eldar and the Necron first fought. It has been so long since that era that the majority of Eldar (save one Craftworld... Iyanden, I think) have entirely forgotten that they were created to fight these guys.

Ten thousand years is not really that much time, comparatively, to the Eldar. They're not going to set up the Tau, who are as likely to invite the Necrons over for tea and biscuits as they are to actually resist them, as the new masters of the galaxy. The Eldar aren't stupid, the Tau do not offer anything, on a biological level, that lends them to being a dominant race on a galactic scale. They don't live long enough, for one, and the fact that their caste-system is reflected in varying biological markers indicates that, given enough time to develop it, a targeted biowarfare agent could decapitate their social structure entirely.

Want to wipe out the Tau? Introduce a genophage that targets only one of their castes.

Well En Excelsis, consider your vicsoral rant that basically just hates on gak because 'It's not what I would've done' ignored!!!! And goin off at people just cause you disagree with what they're conversing with people not you about... 'Where does that get fun?'

The old ones likely had a hand in the creation of the tau. There are several subtle implications provided by the fluff - all of this is IIRC:

Tau Evolution: in the first two codices, there is a fluff piece on an imperial agent examining the tau genetics and concluding that somehow tau evolution has been manipulated to form the five castes. Not just the etherals, all the tau. Somehow they went from one type of tau caveman to the five different castes in less than a thousand years - the imperial scribe concluded that they were manipulated by an outside force.

Xenology made the genetic connection between eldar, humans, orks, hurd, and tau. Throughout the book the characters were noticing the old ones influence in the species being examined; without actually knowing about the old ones themselves. The tau were put into the genetic group of aliens that were modified by the old ones through cross species comparisons in Xenology.

The arrival of the etherals; a new caste of tau with the ability to control the tau, are dropped on the planet and take command of entire race overnight in a coordinated manner. The etherals ability to control the is pretty much established by the new codex. What isn’t, is why all the etherals preaching the same message instead of each being their own king? I am leaning towards the notion that the Greater Good, or the need for species/galactic wide cooperation is mixed into the genetic makeup of the etherals.

There were two cases which appeared to be divine intervention by the old ones; The freak warp storm that saved the caveman tau from being wiped out by the imperium. Not many forces exist in the 40K universe that could produce a freak warp storm on demand. And the alien space vessel dropped into their system for the tau to reverse engineer right when they were technologically developed enough to actually understand what they are looking at. Also the tau started out in the perfected place in the galaxy for them to started their empire.

I used to be of the opinion that there was a secret tier above the etherals that were governing the tau. Now I think that the tau etherals are programmed genetically to unite the tau the same way orks are programmed to fight and the Jokaero are programmed to build devices. The the old ones are completely hands off with the tau IMHO. Based on their relatively low technology and the fact that they been picking fights with the eldar its hard to imagine that the old ones are steering the ship.

It make perfect literary sense to have the tau be the product of the old ones particularly their placement in the galaxy, their resistance to the warp and weak warp presence, and the fact that the etherals seem genetical programmed to unite the galaxy in order. It is the perfect response by the surviving old ones to create a race like the tau after the arrival of chaos and actually directly connects the tau into the rest of 40K - just my two cents anyway.

I also embrace the "Eldar did it" theory, and will do so until proven otherwise -- for the variety of reasons stated already.

For those questioning why the Eldar would either create or involve themselves in the evolutionary path of a "psychically blunt" race, I would argue that if you wanted to set up a puppet empire to essentially take your place in the galaxy, you would probably want to ensure that you didn't sew the seeds of its destruction in the exact same way that your own species nearly went extinct. The Eldar, moreso than anyone, understand the risk of psychic potency.

Regarding the suggestion that the Tau "offer nothing" and that the "arrogant Eldar would simply kill them instead of use them" ... I would have to suggest that you examine the overall themes at hand in Eldar lore. They divine and manipulate the courses of fate, generally through their direct use of other species. There are an overwhelming number of examples of precisely this happening, as it saves the precious few Eldar lives that endure in the galaxy. And as to the arrogance, I agree, although I see that more as evidence of their willingness to do something as bold as directly intervene in the genetic history of an entire species. They would literally be "playing god" at that point, and that does sound quite like them in my opinion.

There's also the matter of the Eldar generally having an unusually benevolent perspective of the Tau. Eldrad himself is quoted as feeling strangely protective of the fledgling Tau empire. That is definitely -not- a normal sentiment of theirs, especially from such a prominent Eldar figure.

My guess is that if they were involved, it probably was not done as some sort of collectivist effort of all the Craftworlds working in harmony. My guess would be one Craftworld got some crazy idea in their head and ran with it. Remember that they are distinctly separate entities with individual cultures and ideals ... Eldar occasionally fight each other, after all.

Also, as a partial segway back to the OP's original theory and question, I would probably argue that the Eldar are the most "touched" by the Old Ones. It could be as natural as emulating the actions of your parents, at this point.

Ok, so apart from the odd Darwinist (which have got a good point of Archam's Razer) most of the theories lack hard agreeable evidence... And yet the most agreed upon thing on this thread as I read it; Is that the Tau, at the very least, have been engineered by 'outside forces' if not outright guided..
Time will tell what the GW fluffers bring out,
Thanks agai everyone who made the thread fun!!