<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Can I please use my iron halo and my tree......"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Can I please use my iron halo and my tree...... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5667915.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5667915.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree...... FNP from Endurance if something somehow gets through all of that - it would be virtually impossible to kill even one barring insanely bad rolling.

For cinematic purposes, you can always assume that you saved based on what you roll. To use your example, on a 3 the shot bypassed all other protections and stopped at your character's armor, on a 4 the Iron Halo stopped it, and so forth. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5667958.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5667958.page GMT Re:Can I please use my iron halo and my tree...... 40k's mechanics, to the frustration & general bewilderment of some players (myself included). However as it stands Strat_N8 is right, besides what's your Chapter Master hugging trees for Get out there and fight like a super human ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5667991.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5667991.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree......
 Strat_N8 wrote:
To be honest, stacking saves is already quite potent, being able to take all of them one after another would make it absurdly difficult to inflict damage. For instance, picture a squad of THSS Terminators that can take their 2+ armor, 3++ invulnerable from their stormshields, a 5++ invulnerable from Terminator Armor, 5+ from cover, and 5+ FNP from Endurance if something somehow gets through all of that - it would be virtually impossible to kill even one barring insanely bad rolling.


Very true, I have to agree there it could lead to some nasty amount of saves which only my eldar friend could fail and that would be too unfair on armies that rely on shooting attacks.

For cinematic purposes, you can always assume that you saved based on what you roll. To use your example, on a 3 the shot bypassed all other protections and stopped at your character's armor, on a 4 the Iron Halo stopped it, and so forth.


Yep, thats a good idea, never thought about it like that, but then again, usuall playing nids im used to my gaunts never really having a save and nothing every having and invulnerable.....



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Logic has little place in 40k's mechanics, to the frustration & general bewilderment of some players (myself included). However as it stands Strat_N8 is right, besides what's your Chapter Master hugging trees for Get out there and fight like a super human


My super human is a coward, and proud of it, its something to do with the nasty amount of bright lances there is hanging around......however on occasion he has been a one man army, even more so with my CSM lord who juts runs around slaughtering hundreds of innocent marine sergeants in challenges, tooling himself up with boons of chaos, until he turns into a spawn in the last turn....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5667998.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5667998.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree...... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5668365.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5668365.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree......
 Suicidal Grot wrote:
Ok so where is the logic behind my Marine Master not being able to hide behind his tree, whilst using his power armour and iron halo, its not like if he gets shot by a bolter he turns his iron halo off of if he gets hit by a lascannon he jumps out of the tree? I really think multiple saves is something we need!


You say this now, but when your games grind to a halt when your opponent is taking save after save, it won't be so cool. Yes, a space marine captain is not as invincible as he is in the books, but there is a reason for that, its called game design.

No, we do not need multiple saves. Take your best available save and cross your fingers. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5668402.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5668402.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree......
 Suicidal Grot wrote:
Ok so where is the logic behind my Marine Master not being able to hide behind his tree, whilst using his power armour and iron halo, its not like if he gets shot by a bolter he turns his iron halo off of if he gets hit by a lascannon he jumps out of the tree? I really think multiple saves is something we need!


It actually has a pretty good logic behind it: what do you think, how the hell would a tree protect your Captain from a hit that pierces even the mighty Iron Halo? And from the other way: why would your Refractor Field protect you from a shot that blasted through a brick wall?

You always use your best possible defensive method against all shots. Because if it fails, then how would the other (weaker) methods make any difference? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5668658.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5668658.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree...... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5668956.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5668956.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree...... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669031.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669031.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree...... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669183.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669183.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree......
Logically (if you want to go that way) all saves should be taken against "to hit Rolls" not "to wound rolls"

But if cover were say -1 to BS, every model would derive the same benefit (a 16% increase in survivabiliy) rather than the way it is now where against an AP 5 shot the marine gains nothing and the Ork gains 33%.

So simple

Cover = -1 BS
Heavy Cover (Ruins) = -2 BS
Go to Ground(decided before you get shot)= additional -1 BS Could make this -2 for something like the defense line)

Obviously to a minimum of 1.

Which at some point makes it less effective against ork shooting (as they are effected the same by all cover.), but presents a greater benefit to higher BS models as well. My vindicare may not really care that you are in cover at all, and still pick you out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also this still would have no effect on Templates, and would have less of an effect on blasts (none at all on indirect fire.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669196.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669196.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree......
Breng77 wrote:
This is one of the reasons cover would be better represented by a to hit modifier than a save. Less rolling, and more equal benefit from cover. After all if makes little sense for a "hit" or "wound" to be negated by cover.

Logically (if you want to go that way) all saves should be taken against "to hit Rolls" not "to wound rolls"

But if cover were say -1 to BS, every model would derive the same benefit (a 16% increase in survivabiliy) rather than the way it is now where against an AP 5 shot the marine gains nothing and the Ork gains 33%.

So simple

Cover = -1 BS
Heavy Cover (Ruins) = -2 BS
Go to Ground(decided before you get shot)= additional -1 BS Could make this -2 for something like the defense line)

Obviously to a minimum of 1.

Which at some point makes it less effective against ork shooting (as they are effected the same by all cover.), but presents a greater benefit to higher BS models as well. My vindicare may not really care that you are in cover at all, and still pick you out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also this still would have no effect on Templates, and would have less of an effect on blasts (none at all on indirect fire.)


Old school rogue trader styleeeeee!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669720.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669720.page GMT Re:Can I please use my iron halo and my tree......
Ok so where is the logic behind my Marine Master not being able to hide behind his tree, whilst using his power armour and iron halo, its not like if he gets shot by a bolter he turns his iron halo off of if he gets hit by a lascannon he jumps out of the tree? I really think multiple saves is something we need!


This is one of the reasons cover would be better represented by a to hit modifier than a save. Less rolling, and more equal benefit from cover. After all if makes little sense for a "hit" or "wound" to be negated by cover.


Second edition allowed you to take every save you had until you either took the wound or saved the shot. As already mentioned, it slowed the game down considerably (imagine a character with three different saves taking 10-20 wounds in a turn and re-rolling each save up to three times). The other thing it did was make characters that much more powerful. The last thing the current game needs is a return of hero-hammer imo.

Second ed also had save modifiers. It not only used them for cover but also for weapons. For example, instead of an AP value a weapon would be listed as a "-3" save modifier for example. Compounding multiple modifiers (my character is in cover, and has a relic that adds +1 to his save, but your weapon has a -2 modifier) tended to add complexity and tedium that I'm also not sure I would like in the current game.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669924.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5669924.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree......
GW made a concious decision to move away from modifiers in 3rd, however, because they felt that the addition of too much arithmetic mid-game slowed the game down and made it less accessible.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5671393.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5671393.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree......
Breng77 wrote:
This is one of the reasons cover would be better represented by a to hit modifier than a save.


Then you have to reduce toughness in some other way to compensate and avoid having heavy infantry become unkillable in cover. For example, if you want marines shooting at your terminators at BS 2 because they're in a ruin they might have to lose their invulnerable save and have their armor reduced to 4+ (5+ for standard marines).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5671504.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5671504.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree...... TH/SS they get nothing at all.)

I also find it laughable that it would slow the game down more than rolling all the extra dice we are now for cover saves, we already have plenty of modifiers (Snap fire, Enfeeble, Furious Charge etc.) I really don't think it would take much for people to be like, oh yeah I hit on 4s now instead of 3s. I do agree though on not having multiple modifiers though.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5671861.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5671861.page GMT Can I please use my iron halo and my tree...... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5671900.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/529720/5671900.page GMT