<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Imperial Economic System"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Imperial Economic System BRBs I have, that are 5th and 6th edition (also I'm not sure just how much WH:RT is still relevant to the topic).

So here's the thing, Hiveworlds and Forgeworlds are clearly supporting themselves by exporting their industrial goods in exchange for other essentials, meaning there are definitely tradings in the Imperium, not to mention the new Rogue Trader RPG. Question is: what currency do they use?

Well I have a theory:

Firstly, it is cleary feasible to enforce a official form of currency within civilized Imperium worlds, such as described in Horus rising, where the newly conquered 60-3-19 underwent a social reform - particularly mentioned was the enforcing of Imperial coins. That seem to indicate that at least there's a medium of trade sanctioned by the Adeptus Terra, albeit what forum of trade mediums used on individual hiveworlds may vary.

Secondly, the Imperium Guard Regiments. Departmento Munitorum handles the guardsmen, which means they are responsible for paying the guards (provided that they do get paid; DKoK will likely never get paid considering they're industrially produced and heavily indoctrinated). Therefore, logically, a regiment of say, 100,000 guardsmen will require not only a consider amount of supplies every day, but also a full-hull worth of whatever currencies they use on a thunderhawk; and that's not it, regiments are often grouped into a full battle-force, maybe tens of regiments in strength, that means in addition to the whole fleet that drags them to their designated meat-grinders, there are ships of munitions, warmachines, parts, foods, and bloody money constantly jumping through wrap to make a delivery to phantom targets that might have been lost.
Now, Adeptus Terra receives tithe, but it's never in currency, but in resources. So I assume the Administratum handles tithe and exchange them for currency, paying their adepts, and them paying for the equipments, and them the power/fuels usage and maintenance of their palaces, and them go to the regimentum command across sectors!? I can't rationalize this point, but that's all I got.

However, I hope some lore-master can explain this to me, because it seems like impossible mission to me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5880671.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5880671.page GMT Imperial Economic System
I have a sort of vague idea of there being two broad types of money in the imperium: one interplanetary Imperial currency in the manner of "credits" in other sci-fi works (I'm sure I've seen the odd mention of "Thrones" in a few books) while each world is then left to work out its own local currency (or currencies). I'm pretty sure in Guns of Tanith the detective sub-plot is partly influenced by tracking who stole some coins from a recaptured city, and I think these were local coins.

Perhaps if these "Thrones" (for want of something better to call them) exist, they would be preferred to a world's local currency, much like US dollars are unofficially used in many countries today. Something else I can imagine happening is that a particularly important manufacturing world, that would not want to give up a chunk of its workforce as Guard recruits, might be able to make a payment in place of this, kind of like scutage or "shield money"(that's just a personal theory though, and it raises the question of whether the Imperium would allow, or even need, such a practice - if so they would probably prefer something like weapons or ammo, and you already mentioned how factory worlds pay their taxes in goods).

I would imagine the Guard are payed in some sort of Guard-only scrip that whichever world they're sent to is obliged to accept. If local traders don't like this, tough - an Imperium-spanning organisation like the Munitorum can do what it likes. That said, some extremely strict regiments might even forbid their members from mixing with the populace...sky's the limit in 40K. Guardsmen are probably not technically supposed to have "proper" money, but they'd probably be able to get their hands on it, possibly to be used in some sort of black market activities (even the IG Codex mentions this).

A subplot in Salvation's Reach is about the attempts to find a group of Guardsmen who have scammed a widows' pension scheme, and in the third Eisenhorn book he mentions that he would like to retire one of his astropaths on a pension. I would guess that these are those times where the "Thrones" come in.

The thing to remember, though, is that in this setting this sort of thing almost doesn't have to make sense as we would understand it today. The Imperium has the power to impose any system it like on its subjects so pretty much any economic oddity can be explained as the result of some anonymous Administratum drone pressing the wrong key on a world half the galaxy away a hundred years ago (makes it more grimdark).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5880817.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5880817.page GMT Imperial Economic System meant to tie into each other. Some game designers and novel authors have in the past commented on this fact, which still seems to get lost in the wider community, evoking false expectations of an overreaching continuity that does not exist.

Now, as for the actual topic, I don't believe in any such galaxywide currency. This is chiefly based on my own interpretation from GW's own books, however, and as I just said, it is entirely valid to have a different opinion. There is no "wrong" here. For me, it is simply a thematic question - the Imperium does not mingle with local affairs, such as enforcing a uniform culture or civil code, but rather lets its governors handle as they wish, as long as they pay their due tithe (in resources, not currency). The unstable nature of interplanetary travel means that the vast majority of Imperial worlds is not well connected, which reflects in and is strengthened by the horrible Imperial bureaucracy, where entire worlds may get lost on paper, or where critical changes are reacted upon centuries after it is too late simply due to red tape. A currency-based economy simply cannot work on such basis, as the central authority would be unable to react to the various local changes in time like the European Central Bank or the U.S. Federal Reserve System do for their respective currencies by adjusting the currency's value via means such as printing more money, adjusting interest, etc. Instead, "Imperial Economy" between the various systems (barring exceptions such as potential currency unions between two or more worlds in close proximity to and regular communication with each other) would be based on bartering, with monolithic trade vessels carrying tens of thousands of metric tons of various cargo across the vast silent void, their captains' own welfare based on how much profit they can make by continuously swapping resource type A for type B, and trading any surplus for other materials, amenities, or services (ship repairs, food, and so on).

Likewise, of course I do not assume that Guardsmen get paid, at least not in the conventional sense. They have been tithed, like a commodity, and as such have no "right" to pay. In fact, is it not said that it is the Guardsmen who have to pay the Emperor? Mankind is forever indebted to the God-Emperor, and with their loyalty and their blood, the humble Imperial Guardsman is graciously given the chance to repay the Emperor for His divine mercy and protection, thus earning his or her own salvation upon death.

However, one idea I liked and adopted from non-studio material is the concept of "Imperial Scrip", which I have seen popping up in James Swallow's novel "Faith & Fire". This is a model of payment that existed in the real world as well, and lo and behold, it was also used to provide pocket money for soldiers operating in foreign and/or occupied territory, where their own nation's currency was not established.
This should be an interesting read for anyone interested in theories about Imperial economy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip

Applied to 40k, I could for example think that the Departmento Munitorum is handing out scrip vouchers good for "1 hot meal" or "2 mugs of brew". Upon receiving said items, the soldier hands the voucher to the merchant (who would be legally required to accept it in spite of the strings attached), who in turn would be able to trade this in for an "appropriate" amount of local currency at governmental offices, where scribes and adepts busy themselves with offsetting scrip against the planet's due tithe, so that the amount of money the local government has paid for its people to accomodate Imperial servants is recognised by the Adeptus Terra and taken into account for when the next Tithe Fleet arrives.

That's my thoughts on the subject, anyways.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5880870.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5880870.page GMT Imperial Economic System
So the tithe system probably also places different value on troops depending on their terms of service, level of experience and standard of equipment. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881014.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881014.page GMT Re:Imperial Economic System
With communication and records so unreliable due to the time lag and distortion caused by warp travel and astropathic communication, it is difficult enough for the Imperium to keep track of entire worlds, let alone the fluctuating financial conditions of the local economy. In such circumstances it makes sense to deal in commodities that have fixed inherent value. A billion tons of wheat can feed a fixed number of humans at a given level of nutrtition, whether you are on Terra or on Ultramar. Having commodities also means one does not have to deal with any issues of local authorities refusing to recognize and honor money or financial documents from the other end of the galaxy.

The existence of Guilder credits on Necromunda from the Necromunda game shows there are individual planetary currencies, perhaps even hive currencies if the Guild is only for one hive. However at the larger scale Imperium level, there does not appear to be any unified currency. FFG has made Throne Gelt be the sector currency of their Calixis sector, but the Imperium is composed of many sectors.

The Imperium's approach towards local economies appears to be that of a command taxation system: "Give me 1 billion tons of wheat of a certain grade every 100 years. I don't care how you do it so long as you do it." If the planet can keep meeting these quotas, the Imperium leaves them alone. If there is a problem, then the Imperium steps in and if need be removes the local ruler and installs a new one to keep the flow of materials ongoing. The very distant and uncaring nature of the Imperium and how they can be woefully out of touch with local conditions is how the collection of tithes can trigger all sorts of economic hardship for a planet or spark outright rebellion. When the Imperium cannot even figure out the date of things in a reliable manner, you cannot have quick up to date exchange rates on any currency. By taxing in kind, the Imperium doesn't need to worry about a local currency being inflated or deflated, and deals in items of direct inherent value. However local units of the Administratum might deal in local currency, through conversion of the taxed resources to local currency by selling them off.

The materials collected then may be distributed elsewhere to meet the economic/feudal obligations. It is here that I think the Imperium directly interacts with other economic actors. A Chartist captain may have a long standing family contract with the Imperium to transport said 1 billion tons of wheat from agriworld A to forgeworld B and in return, be allowed to sell off 100,000 tons on the market to cover his expenses with the remainder handed over directly to forgeworld authorities.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881101.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881101.page GMT Imperial Economic System
 Lynata wrote:
Firstly, it is important to understand that the various sources of fluff, be them codices, novels, or whatever else, do not propagate a uniform, entirely consistent setting, and will rather often contradict as they are not even meant to tie into each other. Some game designers and novel authors have in the past commented on this fact, which still seems to get lost in the wider community, evoking false expectations of an overreaching continuity that does not exist.

Now, as for the actual topic, I don't believe in any such galaxywide currency. This is chiefly based on my own interpretation from GW's own books, however, and as I just said, it is entirely valid to have a different opinion. There is no "wrong" here. For me, it is simply a thematic question - the Imperium does not mingle with local affairs, such as enforcing a uniform culture or civil code, but rather lets its governors handle as they wish, as long as they pay their due tithe (in resources, not currency). The unstable nature of interplanetary travel means that the vast majority of Imperial worlds is not well connected, which reflects in and is strengthened by the horrible Imperial bureaucracy, where entire worlds may get lost on paper, or where critical changes are reacted upon centuries after it is too late simply due to red tape. A currency-based economy simply cannot work on such basis, as the central authority would be unable to react to the various local changes in time like the European Central Bank or the U.S. Federal Reserve System do for their respective currencies by adjusting the currency's value via means such as printing more money, adjusting interest, etc. Instead, "Imperial Economy" between the various systems (barring exceptions such as potential currency unions between two or more worlds in close proximity to and regular communication with each other) would be based on bartering, with monolithic trade vessels carrying tens of thousands of metric tons of various cargo across the vast silent void, their captains' own welfare based on how much profit they can make by continuously swapping resource type A for type B, and trading any surplus for other materials, amenities, or services (ship repairs, food, and so on).

Likewise, of course I do not assume that Guardsmen get paid, at least not in the conventional sense. They have been tithed, like a commodity, and as such have no "right" to pay. In fact, is it not said that it is the Guardsmen who have to pay the Emperor? Mankind is forever indebted to the God-Emperor, and with their loyalty and their blood, the humble Imperial Guardsman is graciously given the chance to repay the Emperor for His divine mercy and protection, thus earning his or her own salvation upon death.

However, one idea I liked and adopted from non-studio material is the concept of "Imperial Scrip", which I have seen popping up in James Swallow's novel "Faith & Fire". This is a model of payment that existed in the real world as well, and lo and behold, it was also used to provide pocket money for soldiers operating in foreign and/or occupied territory, where their own nation's currency was not established.
This should be an interesting read for anyone interested in theories about Imperial economy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip

Applied to 40k, I could for example think that the Departmento Munitorum is handing out scrip vouchers good for "1 hot meal" or "2 mugs of brew". Upon receiving said items, the soldier hands the voucher to the merchant (who would be legally required to accept it in spite of the strings attached), who in turn would be able to trade this in for an "appropriate" amount of local currency at governmental offices, where scribes and adepts busy themselves with offsetting scrip against the planet's due tithe, so that the amount of money the local government has paid for its people to accomodate Imperial servants is recognised by the Adeptus Terra and taken into account for when the next Tithe Fleet arrives.

That's my thoughts on the subject, anyways.
Guardsmen get paid somehow be it coin land or some other currency.

Even in the 40K world you cannot expect billions of men to serve without their being some compenastion for doing so being indebted to the emperor is not enough.

As long as there have humans there has been some sort of currency.

I suspect a system of guardsmen being given land on the planet they conquered on retirement or money if they prefer.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881192.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881192.page GMT Imperial Economic System
Spetulhu wrote:Different guard regiments and the worlds that tithed them also work differently. Some serve for life, settling a new world when mustering out (if they ever get to do so). Some serve a set number of years and can return home.
This is why I mentioned the issue of conflicting sources. If you go by the Guard 'dex, there is only one way - a regiment fights a set number of years, and if they survive long enough (I think the text said 10 years, but I'd have to re-read it to be certain so don't take my word for this), the soldiers are allowed to garrison a newly conquered world, with the officers forming part of the new nobility.

The one known exception to this is the Cadian Gate warzone, where Shock Troop regiments constantly rotate in and out of the Interior Guard. Conversely, there's nothing in GW's background for the Jopall Indentured Squadrons that hints at them being allowed to return home - what the material did mention is that this debt is worked off via service in the PDF. When the Imperium comes along and raises a Guard regiment out of said PDF ... well, that's that.
They probably have some decree that declares their debt null and void upon entering the Guard, or something, or perhaps rather transferring it from the local government to the Emperor.

With space travel being as complicated as it is, and considering that veteran regiments usually do not sport troopers from a single planet and sign-up date (because over the years they were either reinforced or merged to make up for combat casualties), do you really think the Imperium cares so much for the rank-and-file soldier to assign a kilometer-long starship crewed by a thousand press-ganged men to spend years ferrying a dozen vets home at the conclusion of their tour of duty?

Spetulhu wrote:So the tithe system probably also places different value on troops depending on their terms of service, level of experience and standard of equipment.
This much is said in the Guard codices. The Departmento Munitorum seems to have a sort of system to determine how many people from planet X they need to form a regiment, with every regiment of the Imperial Guard having a roughly equal fighting strength. They basically have a key that says "okay, we need 5.000 Cadians for a regiment, but we need 20.000 Valhallans for a regiment to match them", and that's what they tithe.

This also ensures easier bookkeeping, as the commanders in a warzone can at least loosely rely on "1 regiment" having a fighting strength they are already familiar with, rather than having to consider a thousand worlds' backgrounds to guesstimate what they can do with these troops.

godking wrote:Guardsmen get paid somehow be it coin land or some other currency.
In some sources, very likely. Not in all. Pick whatever interpretation you like more.

godking wrote:Even in the 40K world you cannot expect billions of men to serve without their being some compenastion for doing so being indebted to the emperor is not enough.
Well, as per Games Workshop it seems to work for the Jopall.
Link: some fluff from the old Armageddon3 website

Let's be honest, humans do what they grow up with and what they are told in their respective culture. If you had people join the medieval crusades just because they felt they owed a debt to Jesus, then ... it really doesn't take much to see where 40k got its inspiration from.

godking wrote:As long as there have humans there has been some sort of currency.
This is simply untrue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency#Early_currency

The Inca Empire also is a good example on how you can have large, advanced societies operate entirely without money. The only coins they had were for trade with other nations.
http://io9.com/5872764/the-greatest-mystery-of-the-inca-empire-was-its-strange-economy]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881352.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881352.page GMT Imperial Economic System
godking wrote:
 Lynata wrote:
Likewise, of course I do not assume that Guardsmen get paid, at least not in the conventional sense. They have been tithed, like a commodity, and as such have no "right" to pay. In fact, is it not said that it is the Guardsmen who have to pay the Emperor? Mankind is forever indebted to the God-Emperor, and with their loyalty and their blood, the humble Imperial Guardsman is graciously given the chance to repay the Emperor for His divine mercy and protection, thus earning his or her own salvation upon death.
Guardsmen get paid somehow be it coin land or some other currency.

Even in the 40K world you cannot expect billions of men to serve without their being some compenastion for doing so being indebted to the emperor is not enough.

As long as there have humans there has been some sort of currency.

I suspect a system of guardsmen being given land on the planet they conquered on retirement or money if they prefer.


I think you're both right. The majority of guardsmen (excepting a zealous minority) will sign up for a gain of some form, but that's nothing whatsoever to do with the Munitorum. Its up to the homeworld to motivate the recruits to get on the transport. As previously mentioned Jopal motivates them by paying off their debts. Some worlds send convicts - their 'payment' being in not suffering whatever punishment they otherwise would. Others almost certainly resort to monetary incentives ("We'll give X to your next of kin per year, and a bonus to you if you survive and come home"). But that has nothing to do with the Munitorum. Settlement of newly conquered worlds wouldn't come under the Munitorum either - all they would do is dismiss the guardsmen from service, actual awarding of land ownership would be handled by the new planetary government. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881360.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881360.page GMT Imperial Economic System IG service. That's why I favour the "scrip" idea.

Remember that this is the grim darkness we're talking about. The Imperium is not known for asking its citizens nicely, or offering incentives, rather telling them what their duty is (every day of their lives in some cases) and expecting them to put up with it. There are most likely loads of worlds where the troopship lands and it's a case of "you've got your call up papers, now get in line or you'll be having a chat with the commissar." In other words, straight-up conscription with no choice in the matter.

Individual worlds might be nice to their people, but when the recruits are in the Guard they're not under the authority of the planetary government anymore, they are servants of the galaxy-spanning behemoth that is the Munitorum. Now, if some worlds are paying people to join the Guard, it would make more sense to just give the money to their families, because once they're off-world it's probably going to be useless, maybe even confiscated.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881620.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881620.page GMT Imperial Economic System
 Lynata wrote:
... the Imperium does not mingle with local affairs, such as enforcing a uniform culture or civil code, but rather lets its governors handle as they wish...


I do happen to agree with your point: any currency flowing through the market place must have something to back it up; yet vast is the reaml of the Imperium that such confirmation amongst individual financial institutes such as banks (if they have any) would be nigh impossible. I suppose it'd be far more practical for individual worlds to enforce their own currency policies.
However, this makes trading difficult (do recall that there are civilian fleets that, amongst other things, do trade; individual guild has established their own trade routes), as the worth (in turns of whatever resources the trader wishes to exchange for) may vary greatly, and thus making the business not only dangerous, but also highly risky.

One rationalization would be that it's the 41st millennium, either they do that, or work the stream-line 18 hours a day, which is also equally dangerous.

 Lynata wrote:
They have been tithed, like a commodity, and as such have no "right" to pay. In fact, is it not said that it is the Guardsmen who have to pay the Emperor? ...


Drafted they are, enslaved they are not; the guardsmen ('cept for penal legions) still demand merriment, as they face basically every brain-bashing gitz they can possibly come across in the galaxy on a regular basis; health can be kept by nourishment, yet moral requires more to raise. Apart from insane heroism or charismatic leaders, a bit of R&R is mandatory for any non brain-washed human to carry on.

Thus it is my personal opinion, that, most guardsmen, such as the cadians, will be paid in one form or the other, so that they can spend their hard-earned 'credits' during the R&R to feel alive (after all, now you actually CAN own something, don't ya?).

 Lynata wrote:
However, one idea I liked and adopted from non-studio material is the concept of "Imperial Scrip", which I have seen popping up in James Swallow's novel "Faith & Fire". This is a model of payment that existed in the real world as well, and lo and behold, it was also used to provide pocket money for soldiers operating in foreign and/or occupied territory, where their own nation's currency was not established.


Interesting read, indeed it'd be plausible for the Departmento Munitorum, or at least help by Segmental Command to distribute such credits. However I don't not believe the Adminstratum can impose so much demand for any system out of thin air, especially considering millions of guardsmen amongst other factions within the IoM will be operating there; it'll simply drive the system dry and cause such massive famines, to the point that the campaign would have been pointless since any worlds would have been lost due to internal conflicts within days.

One way this could work, would be for the Adminstratum to dispatch supply fleets as they coordinate fighting forces to converge on battle space, which the regiments may be able to squeeze something out of their share to enforce their own scrip; or, alternatively, the DM could just coordinate part of the tithe from that system straight into the war effort, which would be much easier if the stars (timings) are right.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881931.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881931.page GMT Imperial Economic System
godking wrote:
Guardsmen get paid somehow be it coin land or some other currency.

Even in the 40K world you cannot expect billions of men to serve without their being some compenastion for doing so being indebted to the emperor is not enough.

As long as there have humans there has been some sort of currency.

I suspect a system of guardsmen being given land on the planet they conquered on retirement or money if they prefer.


You can expect them to serve when they've been indoctrinated into serving for longer than real-world human societies have existed.

There is no retirement from the Guard in most cases. Some regiments are mustered out to settle a newly-conquered world that they have gained for the Imperium, but most worlds the IG fights on are already Imperial-held worlds. They just fight there, put down the rebellion, get back on the ships and fly on to the next war-zone. Eventually, everyone's luck runs out and you end up with your name on a memorial somewhere. Maybe.

What's the Imperium going to pay them in, paper money? If you're waging a war on some Feral World against Orks, the local humans probably have no use for your paper. It's valueless to them. You'd be better off trading them a sharp stick or a knife for whatever local goods you might want. A script makes the most sense. It has no intrinsic value, but can be exchanged for goods from other Munitorum agencies (like a PX,a shopping mall for soldiers) and might be valued as an exchangeable currency on an Imperial world the regiment finds itself.

Remember that the majority of people in the Imperium (like, 99.9999% of them) will never, ever leave the world they were born on. These planets make use of some sort of local currency that has absolutely no value off-world, excepting in those rare cases where that currency is a valuable metal on another planet that someone from Planet A might find himself on... but this, then, becomes a barter economy, not a currency economy, as Planet B does not recognize the value of the coin stamped on its face, they simply value the coin as a physical object. A gold doubloon, back in the day, wasn't worth a huge sum of money, but its gold content in the modern era makes it worth far, far more today.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881946.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881946.page GMT Imperial Economic System
lcmiracle wrote:However, this makes trading difficult (do recall that there are civilian fleets that, amongst other things, do trade; individual guild has established their own trade routes), as the worth (in turns of whatever resources the trader wishes to exchange for) may vary greatly, and thus making the business not only dangerous, but also highly risky.
That's why I believe that interplanetary trade is largely done in barter - just like it was done on our Earth before the advent of currency.

lcmiracle wrote:One rationalization would be that it's the 41st millennium, either they do that, or work the stream-line 18 hours a day, which is also equally dangerous.
I actually remember the 18 hour day being referenced in some GW studio fluff!
Very likely not for every or even most planets, but still an interesting thing. Also a reminder of what happened in the real world during the Industrial Revolution.

lcmiracle wrote:Drafted they are, enslaved they are not; the guardsmen ('cept for penal legions) still demand merriment, as they face basically every brain-bashing gitz they can possibly come across in the galaxy on a regular basis; health can be kept by nourishment, yet moral requires more to raise. Apart from insane heroism or charismatic leaders, a bit of R&R is mandatory for any non brain-washed human to carry on.
That's why the Ecclesiarchy has decreed that every single one of the Emperor's regiments need be accompanied by a Confessor of the Adeptus Ministorum, to ensure the spiritual health of the soldier and, together with His loyal servants in the Commissariat, maintain morale amongst the men and women of the Guard.

... but nah, I agree to an extent, that's why I like the scrip idea so much!

However... ->

lcmiracle wrote:However I don't not believe the Adminstratum can impose so much demand for any system considering millions of guardsmen amongst other factions within the IoM will be operating there; it'll simply drive the system dry and cause such massive famines, to the point that the campaign would have been pointless since any worlds would have been lost due to internal conflicts within days.
One way this could work, would be for the Adminstratum to dispatch supply fleets as they coordinate fighting forces to converge on battle space, which the regiments may be able to squeeze something out of their share to enforce their own scrip; or, alternatively, the DM could just coordinate part of the tithe from that system straight into the war effort, which would be much easier if the stars (timings) are right.
Do you really think that "R&R" is so common in this grimdark setting? From what I'm reading (though I focus largely on GW studio books, mind you), IG regiments just travel from one warzone to another - the little rest and relaxation they get takes place within the dark and cramped bulks of the hulking transport vessel that carries them across the Immaterium, rather than dedicated vacation spots. In short, Codex fluff makes it appear as if IG armies are either fighting or on the move - excepting the comparatively few garrison troops, of course.

The only other instance of Guard regiments amassing and idling I recall would be impromptu staging grounds nearby the Forge Worlds, where an Army Group may linger for several weeks or even months until the war fleet has assembled and all the munitions and vehicles have been loaded. I don't actually think that the freshly conscripted troops would need to get "shore leave" there, aside from vacation on a Forge World probably not being much different from life aboard a troop transport ... but I think you make a good point when you mention the possibility of the Departmento Munitorum arranging not just for a tithe of munitions and men, but also the food and medical supplies to keep them well (or at least sufficiently) fed and (somewhat) healthy.

[edit] Come to think of it, defensive campaigns may probably see active Guard regiments amass on an already Imperium-controlled world and perhaps even mingle with the populace. The Third War for Armageddon springs to mind. But as already mentioned, I'd just assume the scribes would take into account that the world needs a bit more food than usual then.

An interesting side effect is that, depending on how (in)efficient the Imperial bureaucracy works and how large a settlement is, the presence of large formations of the Guard can have both positive as well as negative effects on the local economy. At first, merchants are happy as they make more money due to a temporary shortage of goods, but soon the people might begin to grumble under the constant drain that the troops have on their raw resources (not to mention possible crimes). I only think this adds to the grim aspects of the setting, however.
Also, note how Napoleon's Grande Armèe - and I just noticed how I am using this as an example for IG logistics more and more - could rely largely on simply requisitioning supplies and quarter from local communities with no payback whatsoever. I've recently read about how, in 1812, the city of Berlin was require to provide lodgement and supplies for 240.000 allied French soldiers and 130.000 horses.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881982.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5881982.page GMT Imperial Economic System DKoK going on shore leave and hanging out at a bar or brothel. Elysians, oh hell yeah they get paid. Cadians probably get paid as well. I doubt they get paid much if anything more than a normal imperial citizen does but they tend to be able to save it up too. Likely if it isnt credit, then it could easily be more like a Roman system where they use their money to buy functional gear, better quality weapons, additions to armor or sleeping gear. That way they can carry their wealth with them instead of hard cash or bags of coins that can be easily stolin.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5882030.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/542011/5882030.page GMT