<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/54.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying


link to the guardian article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data


The video gives you the gist of it but the article goes quite in depth, very worthwhile read. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904652.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
Did anyone think the NSA was not keeping tabs on who visited certain sites thought to be propagators of terrorism?

It's one thing to have this capability... but the real question is this: What is being done to ensure that American's rights aren't being trampled on?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904676.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904676.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
https://medium.com/something-like-falling/2e7d13e54724

So apparently they're getting just a little bit more than metadata. I wonder if there's a search engine out there that isn't a front for the NSA.

It is a good day for freedom.

Edit: link]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904686.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904686.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
The internet wasn't going to be "the Wild West" forever. To think that anything you do or say online is somehow privileged is naïve beyond description.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904696.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904696.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 whembly wrote:

Did anyone think the NSA was not keeping tabs on who visited certain sites thought to be propagators of terrorism?

I've always thought they were. Then again, there's a lot of people out there who would have called me a foil hatter for claiming such things. Now we see that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

It's one thing to have this capability... but the real question is this: What is being done to ensure that American's rights aren't being trampled on?


Sadly, it seems like nothing other than blustering. What can be done? The NSA is showing that they're above the law here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Monster Rain wrote:
This again.

The internet wasn't going to be "the Wild West" forever. To think that anything you do or say online is somehow privileged is naïve beyond description.


Investigating you on your search results is tantamount to investigating you for thoughtcrime.

I'd love to stop making nineteen eighty-four references, but it really needs to stop being relevant first.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904698.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904698.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 daedalus wrote:

Investigating you on your search results is tantamount to investigating you for thoughtcrime.


Ah, but nearly everyone is okay with someone being prosecuted, or at least censured, for what they consider to be a thoughtcrime.

It just depends on your own personal ideology.

To further address your point, however, you're not being investigated for your thoughts but your actions and potential future actions. Minority Report style!

Edit for quote tag chicanery.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904716.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904716.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:
To further address your point, however, you're not being investigated for your thoughts but your actions and potential future actions. Minority Report style!


In that case, since 100% of human beings have a >0% chance to become terrorists in the future, we must constantly investigate everyone forever and interrogate them when search results for pressure cookers and backpacks are performed within the same nebulous interval of time?

I feel safer with the terrorists.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904731.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904731.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 daedalus wrote:
 Monster Rain wrote:
To further address your point, however, you're not being investigated for your thoughts but your actions and potential future actions. Minority Report style!


In that case, since 100% of human beings have a >0% chance to become terrorists in the future, we must constantly investigate everyone forever and interrogate them when search results for pressure cookers and backpacks are performed within the same nebulous interval of time?

I feel safer with the terrorists.


I don't see how that follows what I said at all.

If there are certain criteria for being investigated, and you meet those criteria, you will be investigated. If the pressure cooker/backpack online shoppers were summarily imprisoned for simply searching for those items maybe the tinfoil would be warranted.

Now, one could ask why bother, since in one trip to the mall you could purchase both of those items with cash and not leave an online "paper trail", and I think that would be a more compelling case.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904738.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904738.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:


I don't see how that follows what I said at all.

If there are certain criteria for being investigated, and you meet those criteria, you will be investigated. If the pressure cooker/backpack online shoppers were summarily imprisoned for simply searching for those items maybe the tinfoil would be warranted.

There is reason to be concerned...

Just look at what happened to Nakoula:
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904756.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904756.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904763.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904763.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
 Monster Rain wrote:
To further address your point, however, you're not being investigated for your thoughts but your actions and potential future actions. Minority Report style!


In that case, since 100% of human beings have a >0% chance to become terrorists in the future, we must constantly investigate everyone forever and interrogate them when search results for pressure cookers and backpacks are performed within the same nebulous interval of time?

I feel safer with the terrorists.


I don't see how that follows what I said at all.

If there are certain criteria for being investigated, and you meet those criteria, you will be investigated. If the pressure cooker/backpack online shoppers were summarily imprisoned for simply searching for those items maybe the tinfoil would be warranted.


Well, the problem is that you're already being investigated. Does not monitoring everyone you look at, email, order, and watch to see if you need to be personally investigated still count as an investigation?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904766.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904766.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:
This again.

The internet wasn't going to be "the Wild West" forever. To think that anything you do or say online is somehow privileged is naïve beyond description.


Can I have your e-mail and password? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904770.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904770.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 daedalus wrote:
Well, the problem that you're already being investigated. Does not monitoring everyone you look at, email, order, and watch to see if you need to be personally investigated still count as an investigation?


If it doesn't lead to me being bothered by it I don't see much material difference between that and the advertising firms that do the same thing.

 Crablezworth wrote:
 Monster Rain wrote:
This again.

The internet wasn't going to be "the Wild West" forever. To think that anything you do or say online is somehow privileged is naïve beyond description.


Can I have your e-mail and password?


Because that's even remotely the same thing.

Let's not get silly. The fact that something can be accessed if someone tries hard enough doesn't mean there's no reason not to broadcast your information to all and sundry.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904771.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904771.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the comparison you're making.

Nakoula was initially blamed on the original Egyptian protest and what happened in Benghazi on 9/11/12 due to an anti-Islamic youtube video he produced. He's in jail now because he violated his terms of probation... would would likely never have been discovered if he wasn't "investigated" initially for the events that occurred on 9/11/12.

See a connection yet?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904779.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904779.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904781.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904781.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Crablezworth wrote:
Sounds like you've got something to hide.

Don't we all? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904783.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904783.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying

Same reason I close the bathroom door, I'm not comfortable with other people, especially strangers seeing my gak. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904786.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904786.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Crablezworth wrote:
Sounds like you've got something to hide.


I see what you're trying to do here, but it doesn't work.

 whembly wrote:
 Monster Rain wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the comparison you're making.

Nakoula was initially blamed on the original Egyptian protest and what happened in Benghazi on 9/11/12 due to an anti-Islamic youtube video he produced. He's in jail now because he violated his terms of probation... would would likely never have been discovered if he wasn't "investigated" initially for the events that occurred on 9/11/12.

See a connection yet?



That may have been the worst possible example for you to use.

 Crablezworth wrote:
Agreed


Same reason I close the bathroom door, I'm not comfortable with other people, especially strangers seeing my gak.


So don't post pics of it online and you won't have a problem.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904791.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904791.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
Well, the problem that you're already being investigated. Does not monitoring everyone you look at, email, order, and watch to see if you need to be personally investigated still count as an investigation?

If it doesn't lead to me being bothered by it I don't see much material difference between that and the advertising firms that do the same thing.

Those bother me too. I try to rationalize them as the "price" I pay for using the services provided to me that require interacting with those advertising firms. I also use technological means to circumvent some of the more obnoxious ones those as much as possible, like ad-block and noscript.

But we've now hit an impasse. You aren't bothered by everything you do online getting monitored and analyzed to determine if you're a threat. I am. Do I have anything to hide? Not that I can think about, at least, from a legal standpoint. Do I have anything I would rather not be made known, to anyone even? Absolutely.

Do you have curtains on your windows? Do you ever close them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Next questions: How many terrorists have been caught with this system? How much does it cost?

I'm guessing not enough of the first one and too much of the second, which makes me continue to ask, "why are they REALLY doing this?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904802.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904802.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 daedalus wrote:
snip


I think we've hit more than one impasse.

I don't consider the "curtain" analogy to be particularly apt, given that there is (at least to me) a world of difference between what you do in a public forum, which I consider the internet to be, and what you're doing in your house at night. If we aren't going to separate the "real" world from our online activity I don't think we'll be able to understand each other.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904828.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904828.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:

 whembly wrote:
 Monster Rain wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the comparison you're making.

Nakoula was initially blamed on the original Egyptian protest and what happened in Benghazi on 9/11/12 due to an anti-Islamic youtube video he produced. He's in jail now because he violated his terms of probation... would would likely never have been discovered if he wasn't "investigated" initially for the events that occurred on 9/11/12.

See a connection yet?



That may have been the worst possible example for you to use.

Okay... you haven't made the jump. Lemme help...

Nakoula isn't in jail because of the Youtube video... he's in jail because he had the spotlight on him and he broke his probation (he's a dumb arse, but bear with me...). I'd even argue that he's been made a Patsy by the Obama administration in their attempt to deflect attention from the Benghazi situation during the election season, which worked.

You asked ' If the pressure cooker/backpack online shoppers were summarily imprisoned for simply searching for those items maybe the tinfoil would be warranted. ' You almost have that in the Nakoula situation.

As to the investigation "Backpack" and "Pressure Pot" internet activity... that in itself doesn't bother me that much, but it should be such that it's the ONLY thing the official should be investigating... and not look for OTHER things w/o probably cause. That's what I'd be worry about... are there any safeguards to prevent that sort of activites?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904844.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904844.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying uk circled by automatic numberplate cameras... the police were told to take them down because it was too great an invasion of privicy as it could track where and when residenta went.

So if that is illegal, why is it fine to track and store your activity online, on the phone, etc?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904854.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904854.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 SilverMK2 wrote:
There was a town in thr uk circled by automatic numberplate cameras... the police were told to take them down because it was too great an invasion of privicy as it could track where and when residenta went.

So if that is illegal, why is it fine to track and store your activity online, on the phone, etc?

That's in the UK... dunno why.

Here in the states, many jurisdictions use those red-light cameras as well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904862.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904862.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
That's how I feel about the internet. Obviously, I've got a technical bend, so I'm not really looking at it from your normal person's perspective, but when I tell google to search for widgets, I'm supposed to be sending TCP packets to THEM. No one else. It's a point to point system. It's not like the requests that someone makes are just ambiently floating around in a cloud like radio transmissions, ready for anyone to listen in, and the NSA just happens to be tuning in. They're invasively parked inside datacenters with their own locked closets making copies of everything that hits the servers.

Also, asking again: how many terrorists have been caught with this system? How much does it cost?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904863.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904863.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 daedalus wrote:
Also, asking again: how many terrorists have been caught with this system? How much does it cost?


Like totally 5... Maybe 4... Maybe...

THINK OF THE CHILDREN]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904867.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904867.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
Also, asking again: how many terrorists have been caught with this system? How much does it cost?

Like totally 5... Maybe 4... Maybe...


You think even? I'd think, in light of the public attention on this, if there was ANY successful cases, they'd be trumpeting them all over the place.

Also, didn't do much good for the Boston Marathon. Just saying.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904872.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904872.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
Of course, they do catch plenty of stupid wanna-be terrorists with stings and whatnot all the time. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904876.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904876.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:
Yeah, I sort of touched on that earlier when I pointed out that you could just buy whatever you need in cash and bypass the whole screening process.

Of course, they do catch plenty of stupid wanna-be terrorists with stings and whatnot all the time.


Dony they do that by telling them what to do and how to do it and giving them all the materials? Wish these guyswere in cahrge of your education department ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904893.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904893.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:
Yeah, I sort of touched on that earlier when I pointed out that you could just buy whatever you need in cash and bypass the whole screening process.

Unless, you're required to sign something so that they can track you...

They do that for Sudaphed...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904898.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904898.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 whembly wrote:
 Monster Rain wrote:
Yeah, I sort of touched on that earlier when I pointed out that you could just buy whatever you need in cash and bypass the whole screening process.

Unless, you're required to sign something so that they can track you...


Barcode Tattoos!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904934.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904934.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904940.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904940.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying id and proof of address as it is too easy to get fake licences... which is kind of strange as that is the form of id which is used by everyone and everythingas a primary form of id.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904954.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904954.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying



Oh wait. Using cash is suspicious activity too!

Well, I guess you could always just be a hermit, leave your house as seldom as possible to minimize the data points that can be captured on you, and refuse to use the internet at all. I mean, you could just stock up on food maybe once a month and...




Oh, hello NDAA. I guess having more than a week's worth of food doesn't work either.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also on topic with paying cash: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/02/14/fbi-perfect-terrorist-coffee-cash_n_1276494.html

Apparently paying for your Starbucks in cash is suspicious too.

Yup. So, verdict is in: It is always considered probable enough for you, no matter who you are, to be a terrorist that they justify monitoring you, and if you do anything to avoid that monitoring, you're at least as suspicious, if not more.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904973.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5904973.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
That only works if the government is both trustworthy and competent. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905115.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905115.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying


They Might Be Giants have composed a ringtone on the subject.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905150.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905150.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:



They Might Be Giants have composed a ringtone on the subject.


That is brilliant and I am downloading now.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905166.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905166.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
It came across my FB feed and I knew just what to do. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905175.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905175.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 daedalus wrote:
That is brilliant and I am downloading now.


Congratulations! You've now advanced to the next level of 'Political Dissident' Data Collection! Please log on to any web browser to have your information logged and your prize (A brand new black head bag) shipped directly to your door!

This is great news!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905180.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905180.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905195.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905195.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 daedalus wrote:
Heh, I'm pretty sure they had me down as dissident long before the ringtone download.


True, I've probably been on a list since I was 10 ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905197.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5905197.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
That is brilliant and I am downloading now.


Congratulations! You've now advanced to the next level of 'Political Dissident' Data Collection! Please log on to any web browser to have your information logged and your prize (A brand new black head bag) shipped directly to your door!

This is great news!


They send it using their Super Wow Amazing Team as well for super fast, super forceful, pet killing, no knock delivery too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5906375.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5906375.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 whembly wrote:
It's one thing to have this capability... but the real question is this: What is being done to ensure that American's rights aren't being trampled on?


That is the big question, yeah.

I mean, to me the idea is that government wants to have the ability to look in to our private lives to identify criminal activity isn't automatically a bad thing... but if government wants us to be more transparent to them, they have to be more transparent to us.

If they want programs like this we need to know how they function. Not operational matter like what words are searched for or who is under watch, but exactly when warrants are needed, who reviews any information collected, and how much analysis is undertaken before people get flagged for should be publically known.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 daedalus wrote:
Similarly, here's an account of a family investigated and even questioned because one member of a household was googling "pressure cookers" while her son was googling "backpacks".

https://medium.com/something-like-falling/2e7d13e54724

So apparently they're getting just a little bit more than metadata.


It was interesting during the debate on all of this how almost everyone, for or against the surveillance, assumed the information collected was being used by people for some useful purpose. Either to catch terrorists or to learn things about the private lives of citizens, all that information was being put to some kind of use.

From my experience and reading about corporate data mining, I've seen it's one thing to collect all that information, but quite another to put it to any kind of useful purpose. That doesn't mean we should be for or against the data collection, but it massively changes how we should look at this debate - the pros and cons of a government body collecting data it has a good handle on are very different to the pros and cons of a government agency collecting data it can barely process in useful ways.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
Nakoula isn't in jail because of the Youtube video... he's in jail because he had the spotlight on him and he broke his probation (he's a dumb arse, but bear with me...). I'd even argue that he's been made a Patsy by the Obama administration in their attempt to deflect attention from the Benghazi situation during the election season, which worked.


Nah. Basic reality is that if you're going to draw attention to yourself then you make sure you've dotted your i's and crossed your t's.

There was a case here in Australia where a fringe political party got a lot of attention and a modest number of votes by making some populist and fairly racist claims. After a few elections, the electoral commission spotted some irregularities in their submissions relating to how much funding they were entitled to, and they were taken to court and the leaders of the party copped jail time for electoral fraud. The argument was made at the time that a number of small parties likely made similar mistakes, but they weren't jailed. And well, the point is that they're minor parties, and no-one pays much attention to them. But if you want to step up and take on the big boys, well bring your big boy pants because they play for keeps.

If you want to be a feth up who can't stick to the terms of his parole, well then keep to yourself, don't attract attention and you'll likely get away with it. But if you want to try and troll the world and piss off powerful people, don't make it so easy for them to put you in jail.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5906398.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5906398.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 whembly wrote:

Nakoula was initially blamed on the original Egyptian protest and what happened in Benghazi on 9/11/12 due to an anti-Islamic youtube video he produced. He's in jail now because he violated his terms of probation... would would likely never have been discovered if he wasn't "investigated" initially for the events that occurred on 9/11/12.

See a connection yet?


Nakoula was investigated because he called the AP and WSJ under the alias Sam Bacile, claiming to have produced Innocence of Muslims. A video which was of obvious interest to Federal authorities (and not just because of Benghazi).

 whembly wrote:

Nakoula isn't in jail because of the Youtube video... he's in jail because he had the spotlight on him and he broke his probation (he's a dumb arse, but bear with me...).


Why is this a problem?

Its like complaining that someone found themselves arrested for running a red light in a stolen car.

 daedalus wrote:

You think even? I'd think, in light of the public attention on this, if there was ANY successful cases, they'd be trumpeting them all over the place.


That would almost certainly involve releasing classified information as instances in which an intelligence action has been successful tend to be classified according to how the pertinent information was gathered.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907167.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 dogma wrote:

 daedalus wrote:

You think even? I'd think, in light of the public attention on this, if there was ANY successful cases, they'd be trumpeting them all over the place.


That would almost certainly involve releasing classified information as instances in which an intelligence action has been successful tend to be classified according to how the pertinent information was gathered.


Unfortunately, yes. It probably would.

That means that we need to trust them in that they're doing nothing egregious with the data they collect, that they're actually effective enough to justify the enormous cost such an endeavor must take, and that they're right even when they claim that whatever they're doing actually is legal.

I'm not sure I can make that leap.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907331.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907331.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 dogma wrote:
 whembly wrote:

Nakoula was initially blamed on the original Egyptian protest and what happened in Benghazi on 9/11/12 due to an anti-Islamic youtube video he produced. He's in jail now because he violated his terms of probation... would would likely never have been discovered if he wasn't "investigated" initially for the events that occurred on 9/11/12.

See a connection yet?


Nakoula was investigated because he called the AP and WSJ under the alias Sam Bacile, claiming to have produced Innocence of Muslims. A video which was of obvious interest to Federal authorities (and not just because of Benghazi).

Stop right there... RIGHT THERE!

Why was it an obvious interest to the Federal authorities? All they should've of done is look at that video and go, "man that was a gakky flick... but, american are allowed to post gakky flick" and would of left it alone. Why does that producer even need to be investigated? O.o

They were looking for a patsy. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907480.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907480.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 whembly wrote:

Stop right there... RIGHT THERE!

Why was it an obvious interest to the Federal authorities?


Because there were significant protests across the Middle East and North Africa that specifically cited the film* (among other things). As such, it follows that the content of the video would be a subject of interest, as would the person that produced it.

The state does not need a warrant to examine publicly available information.



*Or, more properly, the Arabic dub of the film.

 daedalus wrote:

That means that we need to trust them in that they're doing nothing egregious with the data they collect, that they're actually effective enough to justify the enormous cost such an endeavor must take, and that they're right even when they claim that whatever they're doing actually is legal.


Well, no, we don't have to trust them; I certainly don't.

However, I also don't care enough to be bothered by such things; especially as regards data collection. I long ago realized that privacy, whether with respect to the state or private citizens, is an illusion. As such I don't do, or say, anything that I'm not prepared to explain or justify. And, in the case of youthful indiscretions, I've since developed reasonably persuasive arguments which allow me to escape most potential consequences. Further, I've come to accept that certain elements of my past will necessarily disqualify me from certain forms of employment, and anything other than a disingenuous involvement in certain social circles.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907678.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907678.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying #TruePatriots #Nothing2Hide]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907831.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5907831.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
Chongara wrote:
I love the NSA. They do good work. I love the NSA. I am a firm believer in in keeping America safe. I love the NSA. I'm proud I get to make sacrifices for my country. I love the NSA.
#TruePatriots #Nothing2Hide

Making sure they don't look at you...eh? Because, they're watching YOU! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908019.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908019.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 whembly wrote:
And before the usual crowd jumps in saying that if you have nothing to hide, then it shouldn't affect you...

That only works if the government is both trustworthy and competent.


In the history of humanity, has there EVER been a government that was trustworthy and competent?


My greatest fear is that by some bizarre, crazy twist, Dakka gets accused of being a hotbed of terrorism and extremism (I suppose it already is with GW hate ) and Yakface and Frazz are forced to flee to Russia!

These are dangerous times!

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908063.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908063.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 daedalus wrote:
Similarly, here's an account of a family investigated and even questioned because one member of a household was googling "pressure cookers" while her son was googling "backpacks".

https://medium.com/something-like-falling/2e7d13e54724

So apparently they're getting just a little bit more than metadata. I wonder if there's a search engine out there that isn't a front for the NSA.

It is a good day for freedom.

Edit: link


Can I assume that is a distorted version of the AP story:

A former employee of a New York computer company was questioned after his workplace computer search history revealed inquiries for "pressure cooker bombs" and "backpacks," but no criminality was determined, the Suffolk County Police Department said in a statement Thursday.

Authorities have said the bombs used at the Boston Marathon in April, which killed three people and wounded more than 260, involved pressure cookers placed in backpacks.

The man was questioned after detectives from the department's intelligence unit received a tip from a Long Island-based computer company claiming the recently released employee's computer had suspicious searches, the police said. After interviewing company representatives, they questioned the man at his home where they determined there was no criminality.


The wife, who you linked to went on:

Catalano took to the Internet on Thursday night, writing in a new blog post that she wrote her original piece without knowing police had been tipped off about her husband's search history at his former job.


Kind of makes a difference when you know the whole story, huh?

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/01/3537505/ny-man-questioned-for-computer.html]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908089.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908089.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
There always is. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908145.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908145.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 CptJake wrote:


Kind of makes a difference when you know the whole story, huh?

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/01/3537505/ny-man-questioned-for-computer.html


Sure, why not. I mean, maybe, I guess.

I idly wondered how the hell you make a bomb from a pressure cooker when I heard about the story.and looked it up myself. I've also wondered how you do a lot of things, and that's lead me into investigating them. On my own, I've learned all kinds of things about chemistry, cooking, explosives, first aid, electronics, biology, and all kinds of other subjects. I'd say I probably learn more now than whenever I was in school, and a lot of it is thanks to the internet. That's just who I am and what I do. I don't view curiosity as a crime. Sadly, it seems to be rare enough to warrant investigation when it's discovered.

No, I don't care that he was looking at it at work. My employer's policy on internet usage is lax enough that such things would fall within it's scope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Monster Rain wrote:
Thanks for the research, Jake. I assumed there was a lot more to these stories.

There always is.


Truly a monster for wondering how something works.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908206.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908206.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908212.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908212.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
No one called you a monster. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908236.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908236.page GMT XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 Monster Rain wrote:
Throttle back a bit, Daedalus.

No one called you a monster.


I was referring to the guy in the article, but it was more than a little melodramatic of me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908295.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5908295.page GMT Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
 daedalus wrote:

No, I don't care that he was looking at it at work. My employer's policy on internet usage is lax enough that such things would fall within it's scope.


That's nice and all, but your employer's policy on internet usage isn't relevant here, only the policy of the subject's employer is. Moreover, it was the employer that notified the police due to their suspicion, something that will normally prompt a followup in a place like Suffolk County.

I honestly don't see how this is at all controversial. Its the electronic equivalent of being stopped for wearing all black while walking down a quiet suburban street at night.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5909887.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/543536/5909887.page GMT