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2013/08/01 19:40:44
Subject: XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
Well, talking about identification i went to register at the gp today and they said they couldnt accept my driving licence as id and proof of address as it is too easy to get fake licences... which is kind of strange as that is the form of id which is used by everyone and everythingas a primary form of id.
Well, I guess you could always just be a hermit, leave your house as seldom as possible to minimize the data points that can be captured on you, and refuse to use the internet at all. I mean, you could just stock up on food maybe once a month and...
Oh, hello NDAA. I guess having more than a week's worth of food doesn't work either.
Apparently paying for your Starbucks in cash is suspicious too.
Yup. So, verdict is in: It is always considered probable enough for you, no matter who you are, to be a terrorist that they justify monitoring you, and if you do anything to avoid that monitoring, you're at least as suspicious, if not more.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/01 19:57:57
Congratulations! You've now advanced to the next level of 'Political Dissident' Data Collection! Please log on to any web browser to have your information logged and your prize (A brand new black head bag) shipped directly to your door!
This is great news!
"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa
"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch
FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa
2013/08/01 21:01:58
Subject: Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
daedalus wrote: Heh, I'm pretty sure they had me down as dissident long before the ringtone download.
True, I've probably been on a list since I was 10
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/01 21:03:42
"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa
"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch
FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa
2013/08/02 06:46:32
Subject: Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
Congratulations! You've now advanced to the next level of 'Political Dissident' Data Collection! Please log on to any web browser to have your information logged and your prize (A brand new black head bag) shipped directly to your door!
This is great news!
They send it using their Super Wow Amazing Team as well for super fast, super forceful, pet killing, no knock delivery too.
whembly wrote: It's one thing to have this capability... but the real question is this: What is being done to ensure that American's rights aren't being trampled on?
That is the big question, yeah.
I mean, to me the idea is that government wants to have the ability to look in to our private lives to identify criminal activity isn't automatically a bad thing... but if government wants us to be more transparent to them, they have to be more transparent to us.
If they want programs like this we need to know how they function. Not operational matter like what words are searched for or who is under watch, but exactly when warrants are needed, who reviews any information collected, and how much analysis is undertaken before people get flagged for should be publically known.
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daedalus wrote: Similarly, here's an account of a family investigated and even questioned because one member of a household was googling "pressure cookers" while her son was googling "backpacks".
So apparently they're getting just a little bit more than metadata.
It was interesting during the debate on all of this how almost everyone, for or against the surveillance, assumed the information collected was being used by people for some useful purpose. Either to catch terrorists or to learn things about the private lives of citizens, all that information was being put to some kind of use.
From my experience and reading about corporate data mining, I've seen it's one thing to collect all that information, but quite another to put it to any kind of useful purpose. That doesn't mean we should be for or against the data collection, but it massively changes how we should look at this debate - the pros and cons of a government body collecting data it has a good handle on are very different to the pros and cons of a government agency collecting data it can barely process in useful ways.
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whembly wrote: Nakoula isn't in jail because of the Youtube video... he's in jail because he had the spotlight on him and he broke his probation (he's a dumb arse, but bear with me...). I'd even argue that he's been made a Patsy by the Obama administration in their attempt to deflect attention from the Benghazi situation during the election season, which worked.
Nah. Basic reality is that if you're going to draw attention to yourself then you make sure you've dotted your i's and crossed your t's.
There was a case here in Australia where a fringe political party got a lot of attention and a modest number of votes by making some populist and fairly racist claims. After a few elections, the electoral commission spotted some irregularities in their submissions relating to how much funding they were entitled to, and they were taken to court and the leaders of the party copped jail time for electoral fraud. The argument was made at the time that a number of small parties likely made similar mistakes, but they weren't jailed. And well, the point is that they're minor parties, and no-one pays much attention to them. But if you want to step up and take on the big boys, well bring your big boy pants because they play for keeps.
If you want to be a feth up who can't stick to the terms of his parole, well then keep to yourself, don't attract attention and you'll likely get away with it. But if you want to try and troll the world and piss off powerful people, don't make it so easy for them to put you in jail.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/02 07:12:52
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/08/02 14:09:05
Subject: Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
Nakoula was initially blamed on the original Egyptian protest and what happened in Benghazi on 9/11/12 due to an anti-Islamic youtube video he produced. He's in jail now because he violated his terms of probation... would would likely never have been discovered if he wasn't "investigated" initially for the events that occurred on 9/11/12.
See a connection yet?
Nakoula was investigated because he called the AP and WSJ under the alias Sam Bacile, claiming to have produced Innocence of Muslims. A video which was of obvious interest to Federal authorities (and not just because of Benghazi).
Nakoula isn't in jail because of the Youtube video... he's in jail because he had the spotlight on him and he broke his probation (he's a dumb arse, but bear with me...).
Why is this a problem?
Its like complaining that someone found themselves arrested for running a red light in a stolen car.
You think even? I'd think, in light of the public attention on this, if there was ANY successful cases, they'd be trumpeting them all over the place.
That would almost certainly involve releasing classified information as instances in which an intelligence action has been successful tend to be classified according to how the pertinent information was gathered.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2013/08/02 14:41:58
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2013/08/02 15:05:13
Subject: Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
You think even? I'd think, in light of the public attention on this, if there was ANY successful cases, they'd be trumpeting them all over the place.
That would almost certainly involve releasing classified information as instances in which an intelligence action has been successful tend to be classified according to how the pertinent information was gathered.
Unfortunately, yes. It probably would.
That means that we need to trust them in that they're doing nothing egregious with the data they collect, that they're actually effective enough to justify the enormous cost such an endeavor must take, and that they're right even when they claim that whatever they're doing actually is legal.
Nakoula was initially blamed on the original Egyptian protest and what happened in Benghazi on 9/11/12 due to an anti-Islamic youtube video he produced. He's in jail now because he violated his terms of probation... would would likely never have been discovered if he wasn't "investigated" initially for the events that occurred on 9/11/12.
See a connection yet?
Nakoula was investigated because he called the AP and WSJ under the alias Sam Bacile, claiming to have produced Innocence of Muslims. A video which was of obvious interest to Federal authorities (and not just because of Benghazi).
Stop right there... RIGHT THERE!
Why was it an obvious interest to the Federal authorities? All they should've of done is look at that video and go, "man that was a gakky flick... but, american are allowed to post gakky flick" and would of left it alone. Why does that producer even need to be investigated? O.o
They were looking for a patsy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/02 15:47:35
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/08/02 17:00:01
Subject: Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
Why was it an obvious interest to the Federal authorities?
Because there were significant protests across the Middle East and North Africa that specifically cited the film* (among other things). As such, it follows that the content of the video would be a subject of interest, as would the person that produced it.
The state does not need a warrant to examine publicly available information.
That means that we need to trust them in that they're doing nothing egregious with the data they collect, that they're actually effective enough to justify the enormous cost such an endeavor must take, and that they're right even when they claim that whatever they're doing actually is legal.
Well, no, we don't have to trust them; I certainly don't.
However, I also don't care enough to be bothered by such things; especially as regards data collection. I long ago realized that privacy, whether with respect to the state or private citizens, is an illusion. As such I don't do, or say, anything that I'm not prepared to explain or justify. And, in the case of youthful indiscretions, I've since developed reasonably persuasive arguments which allow me to escape most potential consequences. Further, I've come to accept that certain elements of my past will necessarily disqualify me from certain forms of employment, and anything other than a disingenuous involvement in certain social circles.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/02 17:12:37
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2013/08/02 17:59:25
Subject: Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
I love the NSA. They do good work. I love the NSA. I am a firm believer in in keeping America safe. I love the NSA. I'm proud I get to make sacrifices for my country. I love the NSA.
#TruePatriots #Nothing2Hide
2013/08/02 18:57:36
Subject: Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
Chongara wrote: I love the NSA. They do good work. I love the NSA. I am a firm believer in in keeping America safe. I love the NSA. I'm proud I get to make sacrifices for my country. I love the NSA. #TruePatriots #Nothing2Hide
Making sure they don't look at you...eh? Because, they're watching YOU!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/02 19:09:27
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/08/02 19:17:56
Subject: Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
whembly wrote: And before the usual crowd jumps in saying that if you have nothing to hide, then it shouldn't affect you...
That only works if the government is both trustworthy andcompetent.
In the history of humanity, has there EVER been a government that was trustworthy and competent?
My greatest fear is that by some bizarre, crazy twist, Dakka gets accused of being a hotbed of terrorism and extremism (I suppose it already is with GW hate ) and Yakface and Frazz are forced to flee to Russia!
These are dangerous times!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/02 19:18:26
2013/08/02 19:28:04
Subject: Re:XKeyscore - A New Level of Invasive NSA Data Spying
daedalus wrote: Similarly, here's an account of a family investigated and even questioned because one member of a household was googling "pressure cookers" while her son was googling "backpacks".
So apparently they're getting just a little bit more than metadata. I wonder if there's a search engine out there that isn't a front for the NSA.
It is a good day for freedom.
Edit: link
Can I assume that is a distorted version of the AP story:
A former employee of a New York computer company was questioned after his workplace computer search history revealed inquiries for "pressure cooker bombs" and "backpacks," but no criminality was determined, the Suffolk County Police Department said in a statement Thursday.
Authorities have said the bombs used at the Boston Marathon in April, which killed three people and wounded more than 260, involved pressure cookers placed in backpacks.
The man was questioned after detectives from the department's intelligence unit received a tip from a Long Island-based computer company claiming the recently released employee's computer had suspicious searches, the police said. After interviewing company representatives, they questioned the man at his home where they determined there was no criminality.
The wife, who you linked to went on:
Catalano took to the Internet on Thursday night, writing in a new blog post that she wrote her original piece without knowing police had been tipped off about her husband's search history at his former job.
Kind of makes a difference when you know the whole story, huh?
I idly wondered how the hell you make a bomb from a pressure cooker when I heard about the story.and looked it up myself. I've also wondered how you do a lot of things, and that's lead me into investigating them. On my own, I've learned all kinds of things about chemistry, cooking, explosives, first aid, electronics, biology, and all kinds of other subjects. I'd say I probably learn more now than whenever I was in school, and a lot of it is thanks to the internet. That's just who I am and what I do. I don't view curiosity as a crime. Sadly, it seems to be rare enough to warrant investigation when it's discovered.
No, I don't care that he was looking at it at work. My employer's policy on internet usage is lax enough that such things would fall within it's scope.
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Monster Rain wrote: Thanks for the research, Jake. I assumed there was a lot more to these stories.
There always is.
Truly a monster for wondering how something works.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/02 19:55:42
No, I don't care that he was looking at it at work. My employer's policy on internet usage is lax enough that such things would fall within it's scope.
That's nice and all, but your employer's policy on internet usage isn't relevant here, only the policy of the subject's employer is. Moreover, it was the employer that notified the police due to their suspicion, something that will normally prompt a followup in a place like Suffolk County.
I honestly don't see how this is at all controversial. Its the electronic equivalent of being stopped for wearing all black while walking down a quiet suburban street at night.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
