<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
Spoiler:
For those who have read Angel of Fire, towards the conclusion of the book Macharius stands in the presence of a Greater Demon of Tzeetnch (? I believe it was Tzeetnch) who offers Macharius the opportunity to join the forces of Chaos & fulfill his every whim, or oppose it. He declines & they do battle. While Macharius is one of the most successful leaders/strategists in the imperium since the Emperor himself, does this mean he has a stronger resolve than that of the Primarchs?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068835.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068835.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068838.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068838.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Kain wrote:
I seem to recall at least half of the Primarchs telling Chaos to go feth itself.


I should have been more specific. I was referring to the Primarchs who sided with Chaos. Like Fulgrim for example. Is it possible a man (Macharius) had a stonger will than the Emperors own sons? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068850.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068850.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068853.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068853.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
Commissar Benny wrote:
 Kain wrote:
I seem to recall at least half of the Primarchs telling Chaos to go feth itself.


I should have been more specific. I was referring to the Primarchs who sided with Chaos. Like Fulgrim for example. Is it possible a man (Macharius) had a stonger will than the Emperors own sons?

Well there are Grey Knights and Sisters who continually tell Chaos to go feth itself with a virtually perfect record of telling it to go feth itself. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068856.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068856.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Hereticdave wrote:
Wasn't it more a case of a long slow process of corruption rather than "Hey you Primarch, join chaos, we have cookies!" With a series of smaller events like the emperors chapter wide scathing of the word bearers followed by their nefarious schemes? And I'm sure that the Thousand Sons only joined Chaos to stop themselves being wiped out rather than any actual loyalty to Tzeentch (and even then it wasn't it Magnus' decision to transport them all to a daemon planet rather than stay on prospero during the space wolves attack?). Someone else feel free to step in and fill in the details, I only have a small understanding of the actual events.


I think that is most likely the case. Make no mistake there was a great deal of progressive corruption on the planet Karsk in Angel of Fire that got worse & worse, but the events that occurred were within a short period of time. The odds were certainly were against Macharius & there was a very very high likelihood he would die if he opposed Tzeentch but he managed to prevail with the assistance of some elite psychers.

Whereas the primarchs being old as they were, fought in countless battles against chaos became corrupted over time & exposure to the warp etc?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kain wrote:
Commissar Benny wrote:
 Kain wrote:
I seem to recall at least half of the Primarchs telling Chaos to go feth itself.


I should have been more specific. I was referring to the Primarchs who sided with Chaos. Like Fulgrim for example. Is it possible a man (Macharius) had a stonger will than the Emperors own sons?

Well there are Grey Knights and Sisters who continually tell Chaos to go feth itself with a virtually perfect record of telling it to go feth itself.


Very true. I often forget Sisters are human as well. Their power armor always makes me think they are superhuman like Space Marines. Aren't Grey knights space marines?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068871.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6068871.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
"I am the strongest warrior of my people. I can best any foe." -> "I am clearly better than normal men." -> "Everybody should bow to my rule. The Emperor is wrong for denying us our right."

Or, to once again quote a section from another short story:
Daemonblood by Ben Counter wrote:"What curiously small creatures you are to present such a thorn in my side." The words roared and rumbled through the air, thick with dark amusement. "What little bundles of ignorant flesh. I am Parmenides, called the Vile, chosen Prince of Nurgle. I am the virus which the Plague God sends to infect your mortal worlds. I am the festering in your wounded empire. Do creatures as insignificant as yourselves have names too, I wonder?"
"Sergeant Castus of the Ultramarines, Second Company", the Marine replied in a defiant voice, as if he were trying to impress the daemon prince.
The horrific gaze turned to Aescarion, questioning.
"I would not give you my name, though it cost my soul", the Battle Sister snarled, and she gripped her axe tighter.
"Such a shame", Parmenides replied. "But the girl I can understand. Her mind is most infertile. What has she ever questioned? They teach her and she believes."


Ultimately, it is a matter of conviction - either induced by blind faith or a strong belief in one's cause. Macharius believed in the Imperium, so he resisted.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069116.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069116.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
Commissar Benny wrote:
 Kain wrote:
I seem to recall at least half of the Primarchs telling Chaos to go feth itself.


I should have been more specific. I was referring to the Primarchs who sided with Chaos. Like Fulgrim for example. Is it possible a man (Macharius) had a stonger will than the Emperors own sons?
Not only possible, but entirely probable. Primarchs are nobility, and nobility is known for being weak-willed and insane. Entitled to power, they desire more. And give in to the corruption.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069121.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069121.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069357.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069357.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
Chaos can get you any of those 3 ways. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069584.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069584.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069931.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069931.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
Also of interest is that many of the worlds he conquered in his Crusade fell back into revolt and heresy upon his death... so, the question comes about, *did* Tzeentch have a hand in his success? The Architect of Fate is a wily one.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069961.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6069961.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070011.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070011.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
KingDeath wrote:
Perhaps Macharius wasn't a an emotionaly and mentaly underdeveloped manchild with severe daddy issues.


perhaps Big E should have thought more about having his super sons grow into adults in a mere year. Didnt exactly produce the most stable supermen.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070169.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070169.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Exergy wrote:
KingDeath wrote:
Perhaps Macharius wasn't a an emotionaly and mentaly underdeveloped manchild with severe daddy issues.


perhaps Big E should have thought more about having his super sons grow into adults in a mere year. Didnt exactly produce the most stable supermen.

Could you imagine Primarch puberty? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070193.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070193.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
@Kain I think the Primarchs never fully left puberty]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070197.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070197.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Big Mach had a mommy..and she told him he was special and never ever listen to nasty Demons...never under estimate good ole fashioned humans, placing faith in artificial superhumans that have a loose relation to the trials of actual humans will always go south.

@Kain I think the Primarchs never fully left puberty

Minus the awkward hitting on girls and pimples part of puberty. They had the rebellious phase down to a T though. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070222.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070222.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Kain wrote:
 Exergy wrote:
KingDeath wrote:
Perhaps Macharius wasn't a an emotionaly and mentaly underdeveloped manchild with severe daddy issues.


perhaps Big E should have thought more about having his super sons grow into adults in a mere year. Didnt exactly produce the most stable supermen.

Could you imagine Primarch puberty?
Uhu, try imaging for moment Angron going through puberty with nails in his skull, so much rage…

Then even Khorne would be like “chill out dude.”
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070232.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070232.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070251.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070251.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Kain wrote:
 Exergy wrote:
KingDeath wrote:
Perhaps Macharius wasn't a an emotionaly and mentaly underdeveloped manchild with severe daddy issues.


perhaps Big E should have thought more about having his super sons grow into adults in a mere year. Didnt exactly produce the most stable supermen.

Could you imagine Primarch puberty?

Yeah, worst month and a half ever. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070287.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070287.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? \ ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070303.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070303.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
the Primarchs all literally were teenagers, at least emotionally, and thats why the heresy turned out the way it did.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070318.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070318.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070330.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070330.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070335.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070335.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070348.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070348.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070364.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070364.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070385.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070385.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? HH should have remained a myth. The depictions of the Primarchs on the page has... not been good.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070398.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070398.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Psienesis wrote:
... this is why the HH should have remained a myth. The depictions of the Primarchs on the page has... not been good.


I agree..but the cats outta the box now, and what would 50% of the threads in 40k background and general have to do if they could not discuss the superhuman manchilds every foible and which can win in a pie eating contest.

I use to like the Primarchs..until they started writing books about them
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070414.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070414.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Psienesis wrote:
... this is why the HH should have remained a myth. The depictions of the Primarchs on the page has... not been good.

If Halo can have a Forerunner saga then 40k can damn well have a War in Heaven and Horus Heresy series. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070418.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070418.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070477.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070477.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Kain wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
... this is why the HH should have remained a myth. The depictions of the Primarchs on the page has... not been good.

If Halo can have a Forerunner saga then 40k can damn well have a War in Heaven and Horus Heresy series.


So, a turn for the worse from a storyline perspective?

Halo was just fine until it went all wierd with the Forerunner saga and then the plot for Halo 4.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070479.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070479.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
No Primarch was corrupted so easily, except maybe Fulgrim, who the narrative intended to be a weak-willed douche. Horus fell not so much due to lacking will, but because he was written to be an epic douche (Sadly). Curze and Angron were insane. Alpharius was an idiot. Magnus was shoehorned into his role by the single most powerful arbiter of fate and causality in the setting. Mortarion was forced into doing so to save his Legion from Nurgle killing them all. Lorgar fell because he chose to, because he has this weird boner for the truth, even if the truth is terrible.

Don't fall into the mindless HH bashing of some posters without at least learning the definition of context first.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070534.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070534.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Void__Dragon wrote:
That Lord of Change seems like the most incompetent servant of Tzeentch there is.

No Primarch was corrupted so easily, except maybe Fulgrim, who the narrative intended to be a weak-willed douche. Horus fell not so much due to lacking will, but because he was written to be an epic douche (Sadly). Curze and Angron were insane. Alpharius was an idiot. Magnus was shoehorned into his role by the single most powerful arbiter of fate and causality in the setting. Mortarion was forced into doing so to save his Legion from Nurgle killing them all. Lorgar fell because he chose to, because he has this weird boner for the truth, even if the truth is terrible.

Don't fall into the mindless HH bashing of some posters without at least learning the definition of context first.

Speaking of mindless bashing there's quite a lot of Oldcron hate here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/553304.page

Thought you'd be able to balance out the set of opinions better than I can. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070571.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070571.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070599.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070599.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070614.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070614.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070701.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070701.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Void__Dragon wrote:
People get upset when the setting turns out to not match what they wanted to happen.

I wonder how much butthurt would spring out if and when they go and do a War in Heaven series after the Horus Heresy saga is done. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070750.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070750.page GMT Re:Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
I think the Primarchs never fully left puberty
This, pretty much.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070776.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6070776.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
 Psienesis wrote:
It should be noted, however, that, in the end, Macharius reached the end of his crusade, and then lamented that he could conquer no more, and his generals would not follow him into the Halo Stars.

Also of interest is that many of the worlds he conquered in his Crusade fell back into revolt and heresy upon his death.


That's because Macharius was based completely off of Alexander the Great.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6071131.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6071131.page GMT Primarchs Could Be Corrupted but Macharius, a Man Could Not Be?
I can only imagine that having his conquests crumble after his death, and his generals all fighting amongst themselves, as did Alexander, is intentional.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6071288.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/553417/6071288.page GMT