Psienesis wrote:
If the Fire Hawks are not a descendant of the Ultramarines, then the Fire Hawks aren't carrying UM Geneseed. So you're kind of in a quandary there, as you can't claim to be a descendent of a Chapter of whom you are not carrying the geneseed.

So if you have UM Geneseed, you are a UM Successor Chapter. If you have Fire Hawks geneseed, then you are a Fire Hawks Successor Chapter.

Of course, the UM are the Primogenitor Chapter for 60% of all current SM Chapters, so having UM geneseed and claiming emulation of/respect for the Fire Hawks is fine (though don't forget that this was a Chapter in good with the Ecclesiarchy and were the first Chapter to support Sebastian Thor... so they, unlike many SM Chapters, did worship the Emperor as a god).

As for the layout, if you are going by strict Codex Astartes rules, then each Company has a specified role and function, but if not, then you can do whatever you want, really.

 Psienesis wrote:
It would depend on who's geneseed you're actually carrying. If they gathered Fire Hawks geneseed (prior to becoming LatD) and implanted it in some new Marines-to-Be, then you'd be a Fire Hawks Successor. If the FH are also Successors of the UM, then you have UM lineage, but are not based on their exact geneseed.

It seems that if you implant a First Founding Chapter's geneseed into a new Chapter, that geneseed then gets something in it or on it that makes the Successors of that new Chapter somehow not also Successors to the original Chapter.

Complicating matters here is the uncertainty of the primogenitors of the Fire Hawks. If they were known and recognized as being a UM Successor, then you could have UM geneseed and claim to be, like, Fire Hawks v2 or something, and it would be fine, but if the FH are not UM Successors, then it gets weird as you're pretending to be akin to a Chapter that was pretending to be descended from another Chapter when it turns out it was an Alpha Legion plot all along or something.

End of the day, I would go with the UM geneseed and claim to be following the style and combat doctrine of the Fire Hawks. That way, even if FH end up not being UM Successors, you can still justify using UM Chapter Tactics, ICs, and all that stuff.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
I'm digging that chapter name.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Eternal Flame sounds good to me. I don't see a problem with a Fire Hawks successor - you can always just use UM tactics if you opponents disallow the Forge World ones.

 Cptskillet wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Eternal Flame sounds good to me. I don't see a problem with a Fire Hawks successor - you can always just use UM tactics if you opponents disallow the Forge World ones.

Very true, I mean heck Fire Hawks tactics aren't even really all that broken. I may use salamanders though with the emphasis of flamers in my list though.

 SRSFACE wrote:
A friend of mine uses Fire Hawks and is painting them as Fire Hawks. They are fun. His alpha strike is pretty nasty (Heavy Flamers on his Sternguard when they exit those drop pods especially) but it's not any nastier than facing White Scars biker spam or the almost-sort-of Twin-Linkage boltgun spam with scoring Sternguard of a good Imperial Fist list.

I don't beat him in scoring games, though. His assault/vanguard spammage is pretty serious. You've got the potential of 24 scoring units on the table with that army if you really wanted to, which is just nuts. (6 tacticals, 3 assault, 3 vanguard, all who combat squad.) And Elam Courbray is really cool and has a really cool warlord trait that isn't broken because as powerful as it is, it'd mean he'd be the only HQ in the whole army as he's only Ld9.

 Cptskillet wrote:
Could have 2 hq's yea? him as the warlord and 1 chapter master if I so wanted to.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Cptskillet wrote:
Could have 2 hq's yea? him as the warlord and 1 chapter master if I so wanted to.

The highest-LD character from your primary detachment is automatically the warlord. Since pretty much every other C:SM character is LD 10 if you take a second HQ then they would automatically become the warlord and you would lose the special character's awesome warlord trait.

 SRSFACE wrote:
The progenitors of the Fire Hawks are unknown. They were such hotheads that while they claimed Guilliman to be the progenitor, the Ultramarines were like "We don't want to be associated with you jerks."

There is no "Fire Hawks" gene seed, technically. All the gene seeds go back to one of the primarchs, somewhere along the way. It's entirely a fluff thing and has no impact on gameplay so if you want to say they have a gene seed that can be traced by to Corvus Corax or Guilliman or even one of the traitor primarchs, no one should really care or bother you about it. Whatever you feel is most interesting, do that. It's your 40k. Make it suit your desires.

 Psienesis wrote:
The BT, however, are a Second Founding Chapter, which means that, at the time of their Founding, they *were* IF Veterans.

 Cptskillet wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The BT, however, are a Second Founding Chapter, which means that, at the time of their Founding, they *were* IF Veterans.

So the first members of Black Templar were just Fists in black armor?

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Just a quick cool idea:
Field a bunch of Legion of the Damned, you could say that the Fire Hawks are supporting and protecting their own gene-stock, and nurturing those who succeeded over themselves

Also, PM me, my friend and I are converting whatshisface (the Chapter Master of the Fire Hawks) and I'd love to share the model with you :3
He's made of loads of bits xD All we need to do now is get the Lord Executioner model, I'm using the body for the Executioners Chaplain SC and he's using the Jump Pack for the Fire Hawks guy :3

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
I'd say maybe lose the bone as it just seems a little too much.

 Cptskillet wrote:

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
I'd say maybe lose the bone as it just seems a little too much.

what would you recommend I change the bone to?

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
I just chose the bone as it was the least used colour, and I felt that there was a bit too much going on for my liking.