raiden wrote:
Flying circus hits harder, and is harder to hit. IMO. Also, its more fun and the models are SOOO much better looking.

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
Flying circus.

Also, I'd check with your TO to see if they are making any special rules regarding re-rollable 2++, which tournament organizers are starting to limit with modified rules. Also, I'd anticipate the Knights showing up if it is a big tournament, and those things aren't easily killed with screamers (and the D weapon don't care about your 2++ re-rollable).

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
Escalation doesn't matter. D weapons come in with the Imperial Knights codex, which comes out this weekend. Unless you area is willing to ban entire codexes, they are going to have to adapt to D weapons and super-heavies.

Here is an excellent article on screamerstars, if you'd like: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/07/22/guest-tactica-the-screamerstar/

valace2 wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
Escalation doesn't matter. D weapons come in with the Imperial Knights codex, which comes out this weekend. Unless you area is willing to ban entire codexes, they are going to have to adapt to D weapons and super-heavies.

Here is an excellent article on screamerstars, if you'd like: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/07/22/guest-tactica-the-screamerstar/

I highly doubt you will see major GTs adopt Imperial knights. They are super heavies and by default escalation units. Taking all the Baneblade variants and throwing them in Codex: Baneblade isn't going to change the fact that they are super heavies.

GW is doing their best to try and get everyone to buy their giant robots and $100+ vehicles into the general game but it isn't going to work as well as they had hoped. 2++ is broken, but one D weapon shot killing basically anything non super heavy is ludicrous and extremely bad game mechanics. Might as well chuck all the infantry in the game and play 3 War Hound Titans each and every game.

I like the article, but he underestimates just how good on paper the Screamerstar is in close combat. Against high toughness models they will get tarpitted, but against mob infantry with prescience allowing re rolls to hit you should just about mow through any of them.

 Nuln_Oil wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
Escalation doesn't matter. D weapons come in with the Imperial Knights codex, which comes out this weekend. Unless you area is willing to ban entire codexes, they are going to have to adapt to D weapons and super-heavies.

Here is an excellent article on screamerstars, if you'd like: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/07/22/guest-tactica-the-screamerstar/

I highly doubt you will see major GTs adopt Imperial knights. They are super heavies and by default escalation units. Taking all the Baneblade variants and throwing them in Codex: Baneblade isn't going to change the fact that they are super heavies.

GW is doing their best to try and get everyone to buy their giant robots and $100+ vehicles into the general game but it isn't going to work as well as they had hoped. 2++ is broken, but one D weapon shot killing basically anything non super heavy is ludicrous and extremely bad game mechanics. Might as well chuck all the infantry in the game and play 3 War Hound Titans each and every game.

I like the article, but he underestimates just how good on paper the Screamerstar is in close combat. Against high toughness models they will get tarpitted, but against mob infantry with prescience allowing re rolls to hit you should just about mow through any of them.

Is this opinion or wishful thinking? GTs not adopting official codexs lack legitimacy in my opinion. In all honesty, if that was ever going to happen, why didn't it happen with Eldar? They are essentially running the show right now, and you can only hope to go first and get lucky. And to be honest, the the knights are less of a threat than a death star with 2++ re-roleable. I think people who play the current deathstars, such as you appear to be, don't like the knights because it's a huge threat to the awesome weapon you have at your disposal. Well, to everyone out there running deathstars and QQing over D weapons, welcome to the club. You can't expect to be on top forever.

In any event, if you're pondering taking screamerstars or the like, then you are WAAC. It is rather hypocritical to question the legitimacy of a different deathstar/super-heavy, don't you think? I guess will be going to tournaments where there are only players bringing tau, eldar, taudar, and daemons. If that interests people, so be it.

valace2 wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
Escalation doesn't matter. D weapons come in with the Imperial Knights codex, which comes out this weekend. Unless you area is willing to ban entire codexes, they are going to have to adapt to D weapons and super-heavies.

Here is an excellent article on screamerstars, if you'd like: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/07/22/guest-tactica-the-screamerstar/

I highly doubt you will see major GTs adopt Imperial knights. They are super heavies and by default escalation units. Taking all the Baneblade variants and throwing them in Codex: Baneblade isn't going to change the fact that they are super heavies.

GW is doing their best to try and get everyone to buy their giant robots and $100+ vehicles into the general game but it isn't going to work as well as they had hoped. 2++ is broken, but one D weapon shot killing basically anything non super heavy is ludicrous and extremely bad game mechanics. Might as well chuck all the infantry in the game and play 3 War Hound Titans each and every game.

I like the article, but he underestimates just how good on paper the Screamerstar is in close combat. Against high toughness models they will get tarpitted, but against mob infantry with prescience allowing re rolls to hit you should just about mow through any of them.

Is this opinion or wishful thinking? GTs not adopting official codexs lack legitimacy in my opinion. In all honesty, if that was ever going to happen, why didn't it happen with Eldar? They are essentially running the show right now, and you can only hope to go first and get lucky. And to be honest, the the knights are less of a threat than a death star with 2++ re-roleable. I think people who play the current deathstars, such as you appear to be, don't like the knights because it's a huge threat to the awesome weapon you have at your disposal. Well, to everyone out there running deathstars and QQing over D weapons, welcome to the club. You can't expect to be on top forever.

In any event, if you're pondering taking screamerstars or the like, then you are WAAC. It is rather hypocritical to question the legitimacy of a different deathstar/super-heavy, don't you think? I guess will be going to tournaments where there are only players bringing tau, eldar, taudar, and daemons. If that interests people, so be it.

Can't be on top forever...knights are a huge threat... whatever.

Did you play in 5th edition? Ever see a Leaf Blower list? Or Purifier spam? How about Razorback/Long Fang spam. Each edition has their power builds, power builds are not a new thing. In 5th edition Tau got their asses handed to them, and why is that? Because it was a 3rd edition codex. Grey Knights, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves ruled the roost in 5th because they were power builds. GW has dropped the ball with the Tyranid, Dark Angel, and Chaos Space Marine codices, now they are trying to make up for it with uber formations and giant robots? Ok, I will take my daemon army and you take 2 Warhound Titans, ok you win. Don't even need to bother.

Tyranids and Grey Knights will counter daemons, Tau would counter Eldar, Eldar counters lots of things. There are power builds the same as every edition.

I do find your comment about WAAC slightly humorous. Do you take Rough Riders or Vespid to tournaments? Do you take 3 whirlwinds in the heavy slot of your marine army instead of centurions or thunderfire cannons?

If you are not going into a tournament planning on trying to win, why bother going at all? I wouldn't run Screamerstar in friendly games. I see Flying Circus as a great all comers list, but it can get beat.

 Nuln_Oil wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
Escalation doesn't matter. D weapons come in with the Imperial Knights codex, which comes out this weekend. Unless you area is willing to ban entire codexes, they are going to have to adapt to D weapons and super-heavies.

Here is an excellent article on screamerstars, if you'd like: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/07/22/guest-tactica-the-screamerstar/

I highly doubt you will see major GTs adopt Imperial knights. They are super heavies and by default escalation units. Taking all the Baneblade variants and throwing them in Codex: Baneblade isn't going to change the fact that they are super heavies.

GW is doing their best to try and get everyone to buy their giant robots and $100+ vehicles into the general game but it isn't going to work as well as they had hoped. 2++ is broken, but one D weapon shot killing basically anything non super heavy is ludicrous and extremely bad game mechanics. Might as well chuck all the infantry in the game and play 3 War Hound Titans each and every game.

I like the article, but he underestimates just how good on paper the Screamerstar is in close combat. Against high toughness models they will get tarpitted, but against mob infantry with prescience allowing re rolls to hit you should just about mow through any of them.

Is this opinion or wishful thinking? GTs not adopting official codexs lack legitimacy in my opinion. In all honesty, if that was ever going to happen, why didn't it happen with Eldar? They are essentially running the show right now, and you can only hope to go first and get lucky. And to be honest, the the knights are less of a threat than a death star with 2++ re-roleable. I think people who play the current deathstars, such as you appear to be, don't like the knights because it's a huge threat to the awesome weapon you have at your disposal. Well, to everyone out there running deathstars and QQing over D weapons, welcome to the club. You can't expect to be on top forever.

In any event, if you're pondering taking screamerstars or the like, then you are WAAC. It is rather hypocritical to question the legitimacy of a different deathstar/super-heavy, don't you think? I guess will be going to tournaments where there are only players bringing tau, eldar, taudar, and daemons. If that interests people, so be it.

Can't be on top forever...knights are a huge threat... whatever.

Did you play in 5th edition? Ever see a Leaf Blower list? Or Purifier spam? How about Razorback/Long Fang spam. Each edition has their power builds, power builds are not a new thing. In 5th edition Tau got their asses handed to them, and why is that? Because it was a 3rd edition codex. Grey Knights, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves ruled the roost in 5th because they were power builds. GW has dropped the ball with the Tyranid, Dark Angel, and Chaos Space Marine codices, now they are trying to make up for it with uber formations and giant robots? Ok, I will take my daemon army and you take 2 Warhound Titans, ok you win. Don't even need to bother.

Tyranids and Grey Knights will counter daemons, Tau would counter Eldar, Eldar counters lots of things. There are power builds the same as every edition.

I do find your comment about WAAC slightly humorous. Do you take Rough Riders or Vespid to tournaments? Do you take 3 whirlwinds in the heavy slot of your marine army instead of centurions or thunderfire cannons?

If you are not going into a tournament planning on trying to win, why bother going at all? I wouldn't run Screamerstar in friendly games. I see Flying Circus as a great all comers list, but it can get beat.

Don't get off topic. People who field deathstars (and I mean real deathstars like the screamerstar) and who simultaneously deny the existence of D weapons are hypocritical. No one wants to deal with your 2++ re-rollable, and no one really wants to deal with D weapons. If it was up to me, I'd drop both. But, I would not drop one over the other as there is no real solution to some of the armies except pure luck or a similar army. When you say "one D weapon shot killing basically anything non super heavy is ludicrous and extremely bad game mechanics. Might as well chuck all the infantry in the game and play 3 War Hound Titans each and every game," and simultaneously say you are going to run screamerstar, your comments become laughable.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
Escalation doesn't matter. D weapons come in with the Imperial Knights codex, which comes out this weekend. Unless you area is willing to ban entire codexes, they are going to have to adapt to D weapons and super-heavies.

Here is an excellent article on screamerstars, if you'd like: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/07/22/guest-tactica-the-screamerstar/

I highly doubt you will see major GTs adopt Imperial knights. They are super heavies and by default escalation units. Taking all the Baneblade variants and throwing them in Codex: Baneblade isn't going to change the fact that they are super heavies.

GW is doing their best to try and get everyone to buy their giant robots and $100+ vehicles into the general game but it isn't going to work as well as they had hoped. 2++ is broken, but one D weapon shot killing basically anything non super heavy is ludicrous and extremely bad game mechanics. Might as well chuck all the infantry in the game and play 3 War Hound Titans each and every game.

I like the article, but he underestimates just how good on paper the Screamerstar is in close combat. Against high toughness models they will get tarpitted, but against mob infantry with prescience allowing re rolls to hit you should just about mow through any of them.

Is this opinion or wishful thinking? GTs not adopting official codexs lack legitimacy in my opinion. In all honesty, if that was ever going to happen, why didn't it happen with Eldar? They are essentially running the show right now, and you can only hope to go first and get lucky. And to be honest, the the knights are less of a threat than a death star with 2++ re-roleable. I think people who play the current deathstars, such as you appear to be, don't like the knights because it's a huge threat to the awesome weapon you have at your disposal. Well, to everyone out there running deathstars and QQing over D weapons, welcome to the club. You can't expect to be on top forever.

In any event, if you're pondering taking screamerstars or the like, then you are WAAC. It is rather hypocritical to question the legitimacy of a different deathstar/super-heavy, don't you think? I guess will be going to tournaments where there are only players bringing tau, eldar, taudar, and daemons. If that interests people, so be it.

Can't be on top forever...knights are a huge threat... whatever.

Did you play in 5th edition? Ever see a Leaf Blower list? Or Purifier spam? How about Razorback/Long Fang spam. Each edition has their power builds, power builds are not a new thing. In 5th edition Tau got their asses handed to them, and why is that? Because it was a 3rd edition codex. Grey Knights, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves ruled the roost in 5th because they were power builds. GW has dropped the ball with the Tyranid, Dark Angel, and Chaos Space Marine codices, now they are trying to make up for it with uber formations and giant robots? Ok, I will take my daemon army and you take 2 Warhound Titans, ok you win. Don't even need to bother.

Tyranids and Grey Knights will counter daemons, Tau would counter Eldar, Eldar counters lots of things. There are power builds the same as every edition.

I do find your comment about WAAC slightly humorous. Do you take Rough Riders or Vespid to tournaments? Do you take 3 whirlwinds in the heavy slot of your marine army instead of centurions or thunderfire cannons?

If you are not going into a tournament planning on trying to win, why bother going at all? I wouldn't run Screamerstar in friendly games. I see Flying Circus as a great all comers list, but it can get beat.

Don't get off topic. People who field deathstars (and I mean real deathstars like the screamerstar) and who simultaneously deny the existence of D weapons are hypocritical. No one wants to deal with your 2++ re-rollable, and no one really wants to deal with D weapons. If it was up to me, I'd drop both. But, I would not drop one over the other as there is no real solution to some of the armies except pure luck or a similar army. When you say "one D weapon shot killing basically anything non super heavy is ludicrous and extremely bad game mechanics. Might as well chuck all the infantry in the game and play 3 War Hound Titans each and every game," and simultaneously say you are going to run screamerstar, your comments become laughable.

You must have been beat by the screamerstar one too many times. Look, you keep crying about the damn thing but fail to realize, it's not even that good. Seriously, when's the last time a screamerstar won a major tournament, if ever? Daemons are just a little too random to really be on top of the heap. They can be good, like reeeeaallly good, if you roll up all the right powers one game. But it just doesn't happen all that often. Even when it does, it takes a lot of finesse to make sure all of your units are in the right place at the right time to be able to support each other. I guarantee you its a hell of a lot harder to play well than a point-delete Taudar list. As for your notion of "Real Deathstar", look to SeerStar, O'vesaStar, GravStars, pretty much all of them are better than the Screamerstar.

As mentioned previously, there will ALWAYS be power builds. It is an undeniable fact if you play competitively. Does that mean superheavies, and StrD weaponry should be introduced into a rules set that was once and still is on a squad based scale?
That's a resounding no, if you ask me.