<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net . http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847378.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847378.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847394.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847394.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
I am a massive bibliophile and I love books. I love the smell of a new book and I love all manner of book related things. I also love massive books (War and Peace, anything by Brandon Saunderson).

In this case GW have even made three separate books. Why in Tzeentch's name can't they release the rules individually. So many more people might actually pick up the hobby then.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847425.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847425.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
I also feel like GW has the notion that additional content, even in the form of bloat, equals more value. So they keeping adding "stuff" to warrant their increasing prices. But I feel like, especially when it comes to rules, that "less is more." ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847439.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847439.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price GW's business strategy. The cost of entry seems pretty damn steep for potential new players.

Just for a laugh I went to games-workshop.com and added the bare minimum to get started to the shopping cart:

Rules book
Tau codex
Tau Battleforce
A paint set of five paints
One standard brush
One thin plastic glue (which, amusingly, you have to be 18 to buy)

£174.85

Wtf?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847452.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847452.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
$85 is a steal.

Just ask any textbook manufacturer.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847487.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847489.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847489.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
a 500-page hardbound book printed in full color?

$85 is a steal.

Just ask any textbook manufacturer.




Yes but were getting 3 Codex sized books 2 of which have no rules and are useless outside of coffee table books.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847500.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847500.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 DarkWind wrote:
 Ailaros wrote:
a 500-page hardbound book printed in full color?

$85 is a steal.

Just ask any textbook manufacturer.




Yes but were getting 3 Codex sized books 2 of which have no rules and are useless outside of coffee table books.


There's also the fact that college textbook manufacturers have caught flack for money grabbing techniques like changing chapter and page numbers around to create a new "edition" and force students to buy new copies of their books rather than get them used.

But in the meantime, I'll just go ahead and finish Ailaros' next post for him:

Why don't you just go play chess?!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847511.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847511.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 slowthar wrote:
 DarkWind wrote:
 Ailaros wrote:
a 500-page hardbound book printed in full color?

$85 is a steal.

Just ask any textbook manufacturer.




Yes but were getting 3 Codex sized books 2 of which have no rules and are useless outside of coffee table books.


There's also the fact that college textbook manufacturers have caught flack for money grabbing techniques like changing chapter and page numbers around to create a new "edition" and force students to buy new copies of their books rather than get them used.

But in the meantime, I'll just go ahead and finish Ailaros' next post for him:

Why don't you just go play chess?!


On the other hand, I actually use the 40k rulebook. I never use my class textbooks. With all of the online resources now: powerpoint, forums, articles...it feels like professors are assigning textbooks out of habit. Most of them are horrendously written, drafted by PhDs trying to explain intro physics to undergraduate economics majors. And frankly, most of those textbooks put in fewer changes between editions than GW does.

On the other hand, $35 for 10 plastic guardsmen is ridiculous (that's 3 times the price of 3rd party manufacturers). $4 for 0.4 fl oz of paint is ridiculous (that's 6 times as expensive as paint from an art store). No way I'm paying for the models or the paint, but the ruleset seems (relatively) reasonable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847545.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
DarkWind wrote:Yes but were getting 3 Codex sized books 2 of which have no rules and are useless outside of coffee table books.

And your opinion on supplemental material has what to do with the price of the rulebook?

slowthar wrote:There's also the fact that college textbook manufacturers have caught flack for money grabbing techniques like changing chapter and page numbers around to create a new "edition" and force students to buy new copies of their books rather than get them used.

And yet people still attend college. Hmm...

It's almost like expensive things can also be worthwhile.

TheSilo wrote:On the other hand, I actually use the 40k rulebook. I never use my class textbooks. With all of the online resources now: powerpoint, forums, articles...it feels like professors are assigning textbooks out of habit. Most of them are horrendously written, drafted by PhDs trying to explain intro physics to undergraduate economics majors

Or worse, you have to pay $100 for a "course packet" that's just a bunch of loose-leaf pages that is nothing more than a copied chapter of a textbook, a few random ramblings by the professor, and a few papers his grad students submitted 10 years ago...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847558.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847558.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847573.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847573.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
DarkWind wrote:Yes but were getting 3 Codex sized books 2 of which have no rules and are useless outside of coffee table books.

And your opinion on supplemental material has what to do with the price of the rulebook?


Why not just put out a rules only book separate from the other 2 books that I'm paying extra for that I don't care to own. Just seems like a poor business strategy that all.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847575.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847591.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847591.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847696.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847696.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price Also, I'd expect better rules than " Feth it, just do what you want"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847708.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847708.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
slowthar wrote:There's also the fact that college textbook manufacturers have caught flack for money grabbing techniques like changing chapter and page numbers around to create a new "edition" and force students to buy new copies of their books rather than get them used.


And yet people still attend college. Hmm...

It's almost like expensive things can also be worthwhile.



Did you just seriously compare the investment of a gaming rulebook to the investment of getting a college degree? Wow.

It's never hit me so hard as in the past few days on these forums that there's a group of people that will buy anything GW puts out for any price, and, perhaps more impressively, they will staunchly defend their purchase as logical, justifiable, and intelligent.

God bless all of you, but a fool and his money are soon parted.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847730.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847730.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847738.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847738.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
I'm less excited about $140.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847813.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847813.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 MWHistorian wrote:
Maybe if I was sure the book would last a good number of years. Two years is way too short for an $85 rulebook.
Also, I'd expect better rules than " Feth it, just do what you want"

This echoes my sentiments exactly.

Bad rules released whenever the company needs money. That's not inspiring me to rush out and buy 7th edition. So I won't. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847828.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847828.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
slowthar wrote:There's also the fact that college textbook manufacturers have caught flack for money grabbing techniques like changing chapter and page numbers around to create a new "edition" and force students to buy new copies of their books rather than get them used.


And yet people still attend college. Hmm...

It's almost like expensive things can also be worthwhile.



What.



Because I'm sure everyone out there trying to get a career as a doctor or a lawyer will be quizzed intensely on the current ruleset for 7th ed WH40k. After finishing their Tabletop degree of course.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847862.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847862.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
Deflect by bickering over choice of metaphor all you want, it doesn't change the fact that some times expensive things are still worth the money.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847901.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847901.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
You can compare anything you get long-term enjoyment at a cost to anything else you can get long-term enjoyment from at cost.

Deflect by bickering over choice of metaphor all you want, it doesn't change the fact that some times expensive things are still worth the money.



And it's up to the consumer to decide that for themselves. Many, in the case of 7th edition, appear to have decided that this expensive thing is not worth the money.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847921.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847921.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
You can compare anything you get long-term enjoyment at a cost to anything else you can get long-term enjoyment from at cost.

Deflect by bickering over choice of metaphor all you want, it doesn't change the fact that some times expensive things are still worth the money.




You're right, my fault. It's totally comparable and logical. I don't know why I would think that my college education, which brought me a great career as well as many valuable life experiences, not to mention paying for itself multiple times over, isn't just like blindly buying a wargaming rulebook that could have cost a third of the price and will most likely be useful for a maximum of 2 years.

I don't know how I didn't see it before. You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847947.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847986.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6847986.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price Some bs right there.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848011.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848011.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Rotary wrote:
If their reasoning for the new rulebook is to fix balance issues then I'm okay with it. My two complaints are 1. I only want the rule book, not the fluff and 2. It seems to early to buy another rule book. If it had been five years then I'd be fine with the product as is, of course we would complain about balance the whole time if it was that long.

It looks like they're throwing balance (and rules, for that matter) out the window entirely with stuff like Unbound, and as far as fluff goes, the daemonology stuff makes it seem like they're throwing that out the window, too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848018.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848018.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 insaniak wrote:
I would have no problem paying $85 for the rulebook.

I'm less excited about $140.


ahhh Aus we get such an amazing book and pay what 55$ more for the pleasure... crazy americans almost tempted to get mates in the states to send me a copy lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Triton wrote:
 Ailaros wrote:
You can compare anything you get long-term enjoyment at a cost to anything else you can get long-term enjoyment from at cost.

Deflect by bickering over choice of metaphor all you want, it doesn't change the fact that some times expensive things are still worth the money.



And it's up to the consumer to decide that for themselves. Many, in the case of 7th edition, appear to have decided that this expensive thing is not worth the money.


and i dont think you can assume that dakka is the "many" of the community of 40k players, its the absolute minority overall...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848076.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 joeforever wrote:
In Canada they're charging $100.
Some bs right there.

That's actually the government's fault, mostly. All books are that much more expensive in Canada.

As to the original question, I've got the second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth edition rulebooks as well as an old copy of Rogue Trader that I found in a bin one time. I think I've got enough art and background. It would be nice to be able to just get the rules so I can carry on with playing the game. I'll probably just get the eBook version on this one, save myself $40. I like actual books a lot more, but I've got plenty already.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848086.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848086.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price BRB rulebook since 2nd edition. This new set gives me the enjoyment of the hobby and fluff section which I will reread many times over. I think at $80 discounted, it is a fair price for the book.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848173.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848173.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
I think the most I've ever paid for rules outside of GW was... $60 for the infinity rulebook (which is entirely optional, I bought it for the fluff, rules are free online) or like $45 for the dystonian wars one.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848290.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848290.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848348.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848348.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
jonolikespie wrote:I can't imagine how people justify $85 for a rulebook

Well...

TheSilo wrote:On the other hand, I actually use the 40k rulebook.
Virtus wrote:I'm okay with the price, but only because I'm new to the hobby in general. I like how it is separated into three different books.
Greenizbest wrote:I just paid $176 for an Astronomy textbook for school that I'll probably barely use so $80 for 7th doesn't really phase me too much though I only paid $55 with store discount.
wufai wrote:I haven't got the BRB rulebook since 2nd edition. This new set gives me the enjoyment of the hobby and fluff section which I will reread many times over. I think at $80 discounted, it is a fair price for the book.
office_waaagh wrote:I've got the second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth edition rulebooks as well as an old copy of Rogue Trader that I found in a bin one time.
Rotary wrote:If their reasoning for the new rulebook is to fix balance issues then I'm okay with it.
Ailaros wrote:a 500-page hardbound book printed in full color? $85 is a steal. Just ask any textbook manufacturer.

... it turns out literacy is a good enough substitute for imagination here.

There are plenty of ways to justify it, and we're only on page 2 of this thread so far.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848368.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848368.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
jonolikespie wrote:I can't imagine how people justify $85 for a rulebook

Well...

TheSilo wrote:On the other hand, I actually use the 40k rulebook.
Virtus wrote:I'm okay with the price, but only because I'm new to the hobby in general. I like how it is separated into three different books.
Greenizbest wrote:I just paid $176 for an Astronomy textbook for school that I'll probably barely use so $80 for 7th doesn't really phase me too much though I only paid $55 with store discount.
wufai wrote:I haven't got the BRB rulebook since 2nd edition. This new set gives me the enjoyment of the hobby and fluff section which I will reread many times over. I think at $80 discounted, it is a fair price for the book.
office_waaagh wrote:I've got the second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth edition rulebooks as well as an old copy of Rogue Trader that I found in a bin one time.
Rotary wrote:If their reasoning for the new rulebook is to fix balance issues then I'm okay with it.
Ailaros wrote:a 500-page hardbound book printed in full color? $85 is a steal. Just ask any textbook manufacturer.

... it turns out literacy is a good enough substitute for imagination here.

There are plenty of ways to justify it, and we're only on page 2 of this thread so far.



Hey man, reading and writing 40k fluff did more to improve my literacy and writing skills than English class ever did.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848382.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848382.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848424.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848424.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
Now, to some people it is worth it on its own merrits.And that's fine. There's no right or wrong answer. But for me the rules are crap, and its probably too expensive for new players coupled with the expensive codexes. If GW wants new players they'd sell the rulebook alone for cheap and go back to soft cover cheaper dexes.

But they won't because GW loves shooting itself in the foot.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848427.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848427.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
It would have been better to sell the (core) rulebook for cheap.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848626.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848626.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
This is basically just the normal BRB price but you have to pay £5 extra for the cardboard box it comes in. Only with this one you dont have to fight through all the codex fluff, and google image results to get to the rules that you need. As you can leave them in the cardboard box you paid £5 for. so its not too bad compared to say 6th edition BRB.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848640.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848640.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price For me it costs too much , but I will have to get the rules somehow . I don't envy people starting 7th , the entry cost is huge for an imperial army . 7th Rule book+codex+codex inquisition+anything they want to ally in +codex demons , huge Step up from what one codex I had to buy , when I was starting to play. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848739.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848739.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
slowthar wrote:

You're right, my fault. It's totally comparable and logical. I don't know why I would think that my college education, which brought me a great career as well as many valuable life experiences, not to mention paying for itself multiple times over, isn't just like blindly buying a wargaming rulebook that could have cost a third of the price and will most likely be useful for a maximum of 2 years


Apparently your college education didnt teach you to avoid extrapolating from a single data point.

Hell, taking even a basic trend line average from prior releases would give you more like (6+5+6+4+4+2)/6 = 4.5. Or if you decide the trend was more likely the 5th and 6th edition release gaps youre still at 10/3, 3 1/3rd years being a rough expectation. Not a maximum of 2, which you consider "most likely".

Of course, they may decide to change again in 2 years. But then a jump in trend can always occur - doesnt mean you shoudl treat it as "most likely" the case that such a jump, or outlier, will recur

Xerics wrote:They separated it into 3 different books. I just want the rules not the other crap.


Then wait. Same as every other recent release the box set will likely contain the mini rulebook, and then after that given 6th did it, and the ME edition already has it, the separate small form factor book is likely to be released. However much like car companies not releasing every variant at one go to drive demand for more profitable lines, GW is releasing the premium product first.

It being split into 3 is a good thing, as it means the part you want to carry with you is smaller, and doing this from day 1. this is an incredibly player-centric way of doing things while STILL Making the point that this is a hobby of 3 parts - background, modelling AND rules. Yes if you want the rules now you are subsidising, in effect, those that also want the other parts, but noone is forcing you to play 7th edition, so you cant complain if your choice is not optimal from a cost perspective just yet.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848825.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848825.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
Where you get a rules book full of well defined rules that deliver intuitive and enjoyable game play.

A book with 16 late war army lists in that allow new players to have enjoyable pick up games.

A book with lots of hobby and background material in.

Paying £50 for a 3 book boxed set that includes..
A rule book that expects you to sort every thing out your self.

A book full of recycled background.

A book showing how to use GW products to enjoy the GW hobby .

What GW plc offers looks VERY POOR value for money. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848826.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848826.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848876.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6848876.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price DnD(handbook, Monster manual, DMG) or pathfinder rules. I get much more gaming out of the 40k ruleset. I preordered.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6851743.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6851743.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
Good deal or not?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6853824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6853824.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6853891.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6853891.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
Punisher wrote:
I would pay 1/3 that price for the part I'll actually use.


Its a shame that we'll have to get two further books which we will actually not require.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6853936.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6853936.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 wuestenfux wrote:
Punisher wrote:
I would pay 1/3 that price for the part I'll actually use.


Its a shame that we'll have to get two further books which we will actually not require.


or you will get them as 1 book like 6th just split for convenience, GW aint gonna do you a favour here, they are just making transporting the tome easier.

or you could wait for the mini rule book, nothings making you buy this one day one is it?

Or you can get the Ebook/Ibook and then you dont even need to carry the book with you.. AND its cheaper.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6854846.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6854846.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Greenizbest wrote:
I just paid $176 for an Astronomy textbook for school that I'll probably barely use so $80 for 7th doesn't really phase me too much though I only paid $55 with store discount.


Pretty much the same with me. Four years of college has made me realize that $85 is a pretty good price, compared to what I had to buy for school. I think I spent around $300 just on books my first semester, and managed to get back a whopping $50 by selling them back at the end of the semester. And that's for a bunch of books that I barely even used, since the vast majority of my classes consisted of lectures using information from the book, so all I had to do was jot down notes.

Even if I don't do much more than glance over the fluff and hobbying books, I can say with near-certainty that I'll be using the rule book for (hopefully) a good long while. Heck, two years of use from the 6th Edition book is pretty good compared to how infrequently I opened some of my textbooks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6854888.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6854888.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
If you're buying into the game with 7th, it's merely very pricey. (Seriously - £60 just to enter the shop, figuratively speaking). But if you've already got most of the book and you're having to buy it again just for some changes to the rules... I can see why some are upset.

I hope they publish a "changes" document that can be downloaded for the 6th edition players. That would be the good thing to do.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855007.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855007.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price GW stuff costs more. Taken on its own as a hobby its reasonable value when compared to other things like computer gaming, golf, stamp collecting, etc. I'm quite invested in the game and the background, and I have the available funds, so its not too bad from my point of view. While the rules may change, its not like the models particularly go out of date.

Its a cost versus value thing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855049.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855049.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855135.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Locclo wrote:
 Greenizbest wrote:
I just paid $176 for an Astronomy textbook for school that I'll probably barely use so $80 for 7th doesn't really phase me too much though I only paid $55 with store discount.


Pretty much the same with me. Four years of college has made me realize that $85 is a pretty good price, compared to what I had to buy for school. I think I spent around $300 just on books my first semester, and managed to get back a whopping $50 by selling them back at the end of the semester. And that's for a bunch of books that I barely even used, since the vast majority of my classes consisted of lectures using information from the book, so all I had to do was jot down notes.

Even if I don't do much more than glance over the fluff and hobbying books, I can say with near-certainty that I'll be using the rule book for (hopefully) a good long while. Heck, two years of use from the 6th Edition book is pretty good compared to how infrequently I opened some of my textbooks.


In all fairness, 5th was around for a good 4 years and was much cheaper that the later editions as well, so I think you might be onto something.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855149.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855149.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 wuestenfux wrote:
Punisher wrote:
I would pay 1/3 that price for the part I'll actually use.


Its a shame that we'll have to get two further books which we will actually not require.

Then wait.

Again, premium sales day one, big book. Then box set, then small version. If you want it day one, you pay a premium.

Cf to automotive, and notice you generally have the higher price engines to start, then later on cheaper versions arrive. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855234.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855234.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855280.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855280.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price 40k is too damn high" threads who exclaim "But... but... but why wont GW release just rules book! This is an outrage!"

It's a marketing strategy that will work for them. They're selling the $85 3 book package to all of the people who are willing to fork over their money. After some time they will release the Blood Angels vs. Orks starter set (likely before one of the armies gets it codex so they can sell you some models without rules) with a small rulebook in it.

Some people will hold off for the starter minibook, some will buy the big rulebook, and others will pay twice for the BRB + the starter... What's wrong with this from a marketing standpoint? The biggest multi-player game in the WORLD does close to the same thing every time they release a new character.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855288.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855288.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Locclo wrote:
Pretty much the same with me. Four years of college has made me realize that $85 is a pretty good price, compared to what I had to buy for school. I think I spent around $300 just on books my first semester, and managed to get back a whopping $50 by selling them back at the end of the semester. And that's for a bunch of books that I barely even used, since the vast majority of my classes consisted of lectures using information from the book, so all I had to do was jot down notes.

Even if I don't do much more than glance over the fluff and hobbying books, I can say with near-certainty that I'll be using the rule book for (hopefully) a good long while. Heck, two years of use from the 6th Edition book is pretty good compared to how infrequently I opened some of my textbooks.

Comparing a tabletop gaming rule book to college textbooks is a little odd. The comparison should be to...drum roll...other tabletop gaming rulebooks. People choose to compare against the textbook market - which is by definition a captive audience where publishers are free to gouge - solely because it's the only comparison that makes GW's pricing look remotely sane. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855295.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855295.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
From wrote:
Some people will hold off for the starter minibook, some will buy the big rulebook, and others will pay twice for the BRB + the starter

Others are sick of it all and will download it, not giving GW a cent.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855304.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855304.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Triton wrote:
 Locclo wrote:
Pretty much the same with me. Four years of college has made me realize that $85 is a pretty good price, compared to what I had to buy for school. I think I spent around $300 just on books my first semester, and managed to get back a whopping $50 by selling them back at the end of the semester. And that's for a bunch of books that I barely even used, since the vast majority of my classes consisted of lectures using information from the book, so all I had to do was jot down notes.

Even if I don't do much more than glance over the fluff and hobbying books, I can say with near-certainty that I'll be using the rule book for (hopefully) a good long while. Heck, two years of use from the 6th Edition book is pretty good compared to how infrequently I opened some of my textbooks.

Comparing a tabletop gaming rule book to college textbooks is a little odd. The comparison should be to...drum roll...other tabletop gaming rulebooks. People choose to compare against the textbook market - which is by definition a captive audience where publishers are free to gouge - solely because it's the only comparison that makes GW's pricing look remotely sane.



I'm sorry but when company officials refer to GW as the "Ferrari of miniatures" it kind of takes your don't compare school books to rule books and blows it out of the water. Compare GW to Nike, Man. Nike doesn't care if some one else sells cheaper shoes -- they're freaking Nike! Same mentality Gdubs has.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Yonan wrote:
From wrote:
Some people will hold off for the starter minibook, some will buy the big rulebook, and others will pay twice for the BRB + the starter

Others are sick of it all and will download it, not giving GW a cent.


Absolutely and the only reason I'm not advocating going that route is out of politeness for the people who maintain the forums. Already catch enough flakk from people posting rules and such.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855313.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855313.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855322.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855322.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
If the other books are literally worth nothing more than a way to heat your house in a potbelly stove for a few minutes, then just do what the inevitable big pile of people are going to do and wait for the pirate bay to come out with a copy of the book (which it probably has, for all I know).

If it's really a moral crusade against corporate gouging, then you're doing the world a favor by fighting on the front lines. Otherwise, everyone should stop the whining. You don't always get to pick exactly what content you want and exactly how much money you're going to pay. There is no fundamental human right to buy items a-la-carte, and the UN won't send in peacekeepers because you were "forced" (which is a gross insult to anyone who has been actually forced to do anything) to purchase something in a bundle package.

Plus, even if they did at some point in the future split it up, how much do you think they'd charge? Probably $65. But it would be worth it to look all cool and rebellious in the mean time just so that you could save a few bucks. About as cool as whining on the internet.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855332.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855364.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855364.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
I'm ok with that.

My only regret is that GW will still receive the sticker price in their coffers, I would ideally like to have somehow reduced that amount too. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855379.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855379.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
a 500-page hardbound book printed in full color?

$85 is a steal.

Just ask any textbook manufacturer.




A textbook relies on articles that were researched by professionals, peer reviewed etc. etc. Scientific articles / researches are REALLY expensive. Like WHAT?! expensive.

The 7th rule book consists of about 90% the same content as the old one. It has not seen playtesting.

Textbooks are quality content. Charging 85$ for a new look and selling it as an entirely new edition is a rip-off.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855381.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855381.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price Flames of War rulebook is $60 in hardcover
Dropzone Commander is $23
Infinity is $65

$60 maybe, but in reality, I don't want to pay over $40 for the core rules. All fluff and art should be optional and in a more expensive version, but the base rules should be cheap.

Textbooks are bad analogies because they are part of a captive group where a professor requires a textbook as part of his class. If the textbook were not required, no one would buy it. 40K is an optional game and the $85 is a very steep barrier to entry.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855498.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855498.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Yonan wrote:
Almost as cool as whining about whining, hey Ailaros?

Not quite as cool as whining about whining about whining.

Sigvatr wrote:A textbook relies on articles that were researched by professionals, peer reviewed etc. etc. Scientific articles / researches are REALLY expensive. Like WHAT?! expensive.

Textbook writers don't need to buy a copy of every article for every textbook they print. And said scientists don't receive any money in compensation for them anyways.

And last I checked, 99% of this year's biology textbook is the same as last year's.

Barfolomew wrote:Warmachine core rulebook is $30 in softcover with color.
Flames of War rulebook is $60 in hardcover
Dropzone Commander is $23
Infinity is $65

Also, how many pages are they?

Barfolomew wrote:Textbooks are bad analogies because they are part of a captive group where a professor requires a textbook as part of his class. If the textbook were not required, no one would buy it. 40K is an optional game and the $85 is a very steep barrier to entry.

I don't know, 40k players seem to be a pretty captive audience to me.

And, as mentioned before, college is, itself optional, as are any of the courses you choose to take. If you think that a $200 biology textbook is too high of a barrier to entry, then don't take a biology class. No one is forcing you to.

If you think that biology is worth it anyways, then you'll pay the money. Because it's worth it.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855547.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855547.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
Barfolomew wrote:
Warmachine core rulebook is $30 in softcover with color.
Flames of War rulebook is $60 in hardcover
Dropzone Commander is $23
Infinity is $65

$60 maybe, but in reality, I don't want to pay over $40 for the core rules. All fluff and art should be optional and in a more expensive version, but the base rules should be cheap.

Textbooks are bad analogies because they are part of a captive group where a professor requires a textbook as part of his class. If the textbook were not required, no one would buy it. 40K is an optional game and the $85 is a very steep barrier to entry.


Not to mention textbooks are an appalling comparison because the overwhelming majority have tiny, tiny circulations.

A friend is studying to become an educational psychologist. At the level she's currently studying (post-post graduate) there are approximately 30 people per year studying the same course, and yes, there is a specific book that's required reading whose likely appeal outside of those few students is near nil.

Not in the least bit comparable to a mass produced book that likely will sell in the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands over it's life cycle.

That's without touching on the investment in time required to produce a textbook vs that likely invested into re-writing 40K. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855554.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855554.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price GW to GW].

Will see a lot of use for the price of a fairly cheap night out so no complaints from me. Plus who buys at full price anyway? Currently being sold by Gifts for Geeks for £37.50 [plus a few quid shipping so about £40]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855671.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855671.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:

Also, how many pages are they?


Warmachine book is 256 pages, full color, and flippin' fantastic.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855743.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855743.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price GW, but I have never used another rule book to the same amount as I have with GW ones.

So after a discount im pretty fine with buying it.

Flames of war for example was the best rule book I purchased. had everything to get started and the whole book is actually rules. The whole thing haha. Pretty big book but even though I love the game, it doesnt get used as often.

I find use as a better determiner for value rather than the upfront costs between items. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855754.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855754.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
Starter book $19.99
Player handbook $49.99
Monster manual $49.99
DM guide $49.99]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855766.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855766.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855795.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855795.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Swastakowey wrote:
All other rulebooks have great face value compared to GW, but I have never used another rule book to the same amount as I have with GW ones.

How many times in a game would you look at the rulebook? One thing that really got me coming back to 40k after a long hiatus was how often players seemed to need to reference something. Rulebooks and codexes were left open and looked at frequently. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855863.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855863.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Kojiro wrote:
 Swastakowey wrote:
All other rulebooks have great face value compared to GW, but I have never used another rule book to the same amount as I have with GW ones.

How many times in a game would you look at the rulebook? One thing that really got me coming back to 40k after a long hiatus was how often players seemed to need to reference something. Rulebooks and codexes were left open and looked at frequently.


True but its not just me, the amount of times someone at the club might be trying something new or if im playing with a new unit, or when ever one of the little ones needs help its always there and handy. I can bring all my other rule books every night but the only one anyone for whatever reason will ever need is the GW ones. I use the other rule books as a reference sometimes but not many people use my FoW one for example. Even if it doesnt get used, its always there if needed, unlike the other books which arent needed nearly as often. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855875.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6855875.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Swastakowey wrote:
I can bring all my other rule books every night but the only one anyone for whatever reason will ever need is the GW ones. I use the other rule books as a reference sometimes but not many people use my FoW one for example. Even if it doesnt get used, its always there if needed, unlike the other books which arent needed nearly as often.

I think this is one reason for the different values people put on the books. I don't think I've looked at a Warmachine rule book- during a game at least- in at least two years. There's only so much I'll pay for reference material I simply don't use but if I needed it every 15 minutes I'd naturally place a higher value on it.

That said I'm not sold on the idea that a system that requires constant book checking is as optimised* as it could be, so a frequency of need based value might be artificially inflated.





*Yes I know GW has a ways to go in terms of rules clarity and precision.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856063.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856063.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
While sometimes people will try and debate price, it is really a factual argument. In comparison to similar books produced to similar production values by other companies meant for a similar purpose, the 40K rulebook, and pretty much everything else GW produce, is overpriced.

Once you introduce a subjective concept like value into the discussion though, things become a lot less black and white, because the representation of value is very much an individual and subjective concept.

Personally, I couldn't contemplate £50 on rules right now because of other things I have going on. However, I managed to use other methods (all legal) to get the actual cost to me down significantly, as I've already mentioned ITT. Models are the same, I've no specific objection to paying £20 for a mono pose, plastic miniature - I just don't think what GW are offering in that ilk for £20 is worth it, hence my hobby pound goes elsewhere more frequently.

But nobody can argue that £50 for the rulebooks isn't expensive, anybody can argue whether its worth it, but it is ultimately a personal decision. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856090.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856090.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
So id say its expensive to all, overpriced unknown and personal value subjective.

I guess that leaves expensive as the only confirmed truth.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856112.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856112.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 azreal13 wrote:
While it is no doubt relevant to the discussion overall, there's a danger here that people are beginning to confuse value with price.

Don't get me wrong- I don't think it's worth the value or price (especially as an Australian). I'm just trying to highlight the crossed paths people seem to talk across where, as you said, value gets contrasted with cost.

The sad thing is that GW could produce a book of the same value for the same cost, but elect not to.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856115.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856115.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Kojiro wrote:
 azreal13 wrote:
While it is no doubt relevant to the discussion overall, there's a danger here that people are beginning to confuse value with price.

Don't get me wrong- I don't think it's worth the value or price (especially as an Australian). I'm just trying to highlight the crossed paths people seem to talk across where, as you said, value gets contrasted with cost.

The sad thing is that GW could produce a book of the same value for the same cost, but elect not to.


Why would they want to, they're the Ferrari of models!

vvvrrrrrroooooooommmmmm!!!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856122.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856122.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Swastakowey wrote:
Yea I agree, its pricey. But if we are gonna argue whats truly overpriced we need to look at how much the company is making of it. To get to the real source of the answer.

So id say its expensive to all, overpriced unknown and personal value subjective.

I guess that leaves expensive as the only confirmed truth.



I think when you see books like the various annuals that are produced, which are a very good comparison in terms of finished goods (full colour, A4, hardback, ~100 pages) whose peak price, when they are launched at or around Christmas, is less than a third of a Codex price, and quickly discounted to a fraction of that, is a good argument for their being overpriced.

Couple that with posters who have relevant experience in publishing etc who state as much, I think we have a fairly good argument for overpriced and expensive, only really leaving value open to debate.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856127.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856127.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Accolade wrote:

Why would they want to, they're the Ferrari of models!

vvvrrrrrroooooooommmmmm!!!!

Because Ferrari is worth something like 7.1 billion. Which is nothing to laugh at, until you realise Toyota is worth 250+ billion. There's something to be said for having a large customer base and being affordable. You can't even rely on them to get greed right. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856135.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Kojiro wrote:
 Accolade wrote:

Why would they want to, they're the Ferrari of models!

vvvrrrrrroooooooommmmmm!!!!

Because Ferrari is worth something like 7.1 billion. Which is nothing to laugh at, until you realise Toyota is worth 250+ billion. There's something to be said for having a large customer base and being affordable. You can't even rely on them to get greed right.


I think they like the idea of feeling superior to all others that Ferrari *may* harbor (I have no idea, haven't worked with them much in my life ).

GW is way above those temporary fads like Pokemon. I mean, what was that old game worth, like a million dollars? Whatever, don't have time to listen to you while I'm counting my stock. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856137.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856137.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856166.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856166.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
But come on, people. You're not getting a $35 rulebook and $50 worth of toilet paper. You're spending $35 for the rules and then $45 for two full-color hardback books.

Well, I'd be spending $35 for poorly-written, oftentimes contradictory, and sure-to-be-invalidated-next-time-GW needs-to-make-end-of-the-the-fiscal-year-figures-look-good "rules," and $50 worth of the exact same text and art I've already purchased a couple times before.

Neither of those sound like a wise investment, which is why I won't be making it. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856168.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856168.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
slowthar wrote:Warmachine book is 256 pages, full color, and flippin' fantastic.

Bump the price to reflect the difference between hard cover and soft cover, and you have a book that's half the price and has half as many pages.

Behold, value.

Swastakowey wrote:I guess that leaves expensive as the only confirmed truth.

Exactly.

Which, even then isn't ALL that useful once you start talking about price relative to other things. Expensive compared to a hot dog, sure, but not compared to anything costing at least $85. Of which I can think a few examples.

Triton wrote:and $50 worth of the exact same text and art I've already purchased a couple times before.

Tell me right now that if someone walked up to you and gave you a copy of the new rules that you would take out the extra two books and immediately throw them in the trash without even looking at them.

Because if you do anything with them at all, then there's value to them. If you don't think there's $50 worth of value, then fine. You can feel free to not buy anything you want (I've not bought several things even today, myself). It still doesn't mean it has no value, or value enough to others.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856237.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856237.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
Tell me right now that if someone walked up to you and gave you a copy of the new rules that you would take out the extra two books and immediately throw them in the trash without even looking at them.

Because if you do anything with them at all, then there's value to them. If you don't think there's $50 worth of value, then fine. You can feel free to not buy anything you want (I've not bought several things even today, myself). It still doesn't mean it has no value, or value enough to others.


I don't recall saying it had no value to others.

I own the Indiana Jones trilogy. Someone could walk up to me and give me the Indiana Jones trilogy right now. I wouldn't throw it in the trash, I'd likely give it to a friend. That doesn't mean I would go out and purchase the Indiana Jones trilogy again, because I already own it, and there's little sense in owning it twice over.

It was worth the money I paid for it when I bought it the first time. The same is true of the art and fluff and the hobby section in 7th edition. Unfortunately, I've already bought that art and fluff and that hobby section twice, and I'm not foolish enough to do it a third time. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856277.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856277.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 Ailaros wrote:
slowthar wrote:Warmachine book is 256 pages, full color, and flippin' fantastic.

Bump the price to reflect the difference between hard cover and soft cover, and you have a book that's half the price and has half as many pages.

Behold, value.



Bull feces.

The Warmachine Core Rulebook includes fluff, game rules (minus massive amounts of bloat), and even faction rules and background reserved for $50 codex releases in Games Workshop games.

Quantity is not quality. And Warmachine rules are a much higher quality than Games Workshop measurably based on the support and clarity of writing. Not even an argument. Brevity is a blessing when writing rules for a complex war game.

Comparing game rules to textbooks is incredibly irrelevant. I was in college, but I made ample use of "overseas editions" that were a mere fraction of the cost and contained all the same valuable information. We then shared the books until we were forced to get another edition. It's one way to compete the glut of the cost associated with higher education in the USA.

As for a real comparison, pound for pound, the rules for Games Workshop games are the highest cost and least actively supported making them the worst value measurably. You can take your qualifications of not liking this game or that game, sure. But in terms of pure commercial value of your dollar invested and what you get in return, GW is the worst.

Edit: And I believe there was a $5 price difference between the GW mini rulebook for 6E (w/ no fluff or army rules) and the current PP hardback. So... yea. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856305.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856305.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price why is it the ibook has around 50 more pages in it than the PDF? 734 pages total. it also makes it about 4 times the size of my CSM codex... so that will be a bit of a big file (around 6Gb if you can multiply the codex's size out)

now im a little lazy, and iv seen what the PDF's are like compared to the Ebook, and does anyone think that $10 is a BAD spend comparing the 2 to save going back and forth pages when you can just tap the rule and have it pop up? i know its a convenience thing but in a tome that size i dont want to have to remember the Pg number for the USR when i can just tap the entry.

also id love to know how many pages are in the print rule book, and what those extra 50 pages are between PDF and Ebook]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856424.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856424.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 ausYenLoWang wrote:
i was just looking on the ibook store, in aus its $90 for the ebook and $80 for the pdf version.

GW don't sell a PDF version. The two digital options are the Apple iBook version, or the ePub ebook version.


The page difference is down to formatting, mostly, although the iBook codexes have sometimes had some extra content in them (mostly modelling stuff, I believe).


The other big difference of course is that the iBook costs more for a file that you can use on fewer devices than the ePub...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856441.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856441.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 insaniak wrote:
 ausYenLoWang wrote:
i was just looking on the ibook store, in aus its $90 for the ebook and $80 for the pdf version.

GW don't sell a PDF version. The two digital options are the Apple iBook version, or the ePub ebook version.


The page difference is down to formatting, mostly, although the iBook codexes have sometimes had some extra content in them (mostly modelling stuff, I believe).


The other big difference of course is that the iBook costs more for a file that you can use on fewer devices than the ePub...


sorry i didnt realise there was a distinction. well the epub is what im labeling a PDF as its just the same as all the other PDFs on my ipad.

i just find the Epubs to work with, navigating them is a pain (by comparison) and they jsut feel very clunky, and yes you do pay more for something you will be able to use on less devices. though i cant see me using my phone for rules, if that makes sense.

also i realise heaps of people dont have ipads, dislike them and wanna be cool and hate on them....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856443.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856443.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price GW may have had the last money from me for rules for a while, and i've bought the rulebooks from RT on to 6th, and pretty much all the codexes and supplements.

It was almost a dealbreaker last time, given how tight our budget gets, but i justified it as giving me four+ years of gameplay. It didn't.

7th doesn't inspire me, from what i've seen, and the price is awful high when you'd only be using 1/3 of the books (the rules).

Count me out. I'll stick to playing 6th ed or 5th ed at home, and learning Warmachine. I play both systems, but i think i'll back-burner my 40K (except painting them) awhile..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856456.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856456.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 ausYenLoWang wrote:
sorry i didnt realise there was a distinction. well the epub is what im labeling a PDF as its just the same as all the other PDFs on my ipad.

ePubs and PDFs are completely different things.


i just find the Epubs to work with, navigating them is a pain (by comparison) and they jsut feel very clunky, and yes you do pay more for something you will be able to use on less devices. though i cant see me using my phone for rules, if that makes sense.

It's not just the phone. An ePub can be used on pretty much any tablet, any phone, any PC, and eReader... and can also be printed.


also i realise heaps of people dont have ipads, dislike them and wanna be cool and hate on them....

Pointing out that the iBook isn't as versatile as the ePub isn't 'hating' on it. It's pointing out that the iBook isn't as versatile as the ePub.

The iBook does have some advantages (like the nifty little rule pop-ups that also serve to make it practically unprintable, and which the ePub could have as well if GW chose to do so) but overall the ePub is a better buy, IMO.

Although not at Australian prices. Go through a proxy and pay the same price as everyone else.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856458.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856458.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 insaniak wrote:
 ausYenLoWang wrote:
sorry i didnt realise there was a distinction. well the epub is what im labeling a PDF as its just the same as all the other PDFs on my ipad.

ePubs and PDFs are completely different things.


i just find the Epubs to work with, navigating them is a pain (by comparison) and they jsut feel very clunky, and yes you do pay more for something you will be able to use on less devices. though i cant see me using my phone for rules, if that makes sense.

It's not just the phone. An ePub can be used on pretty much any tablet, any phone, any PC, and eReader... and can also be printed.


also i realise heaps of people dont have ipads, dislike them and wanna be cool and hate on them....

Pointing out that the iBook isn't as versatile as the ePub isn't 'hating' on it. It's pointing out that the iBook isn't as versatile as the ePub.

The iBook does have some advantages (like the nifty little rule pop-ups that also serve to make it practically unprintable, and which the ePub could have as well if GW chose to do so) but overall the ePub is a better buy, IMO.

Although not at Australian prices. Go through a proxy and pay the same price as everyone else.


not saying, that those that say its not as versatile is hating it. no i mean those that just hate on the ipad itself for "reasons"
the epubs, now i might be being slowed but when i go to open them on my PC it tells me to do so on my IOS device and cannot be opened on my computer.. how to get around this?
and yeah at aus prices... lame lame lame... im only getting the digi edition cos it saves 50 bucks of the normal print price]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856467.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856467.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
I still think the cost of the digital editions is ludicrous(as well as the actual book) but I still want a copy so ill have to pay it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856505.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856505.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Accolade wrote:
I wouldn't mind so much if the previous edition hadn't only come out two years ago.

I also feel like GW has the notion that additional content, even in the form of bloat, equals more value. So they keeping adding "stuff" to warrant their increasing prices. But I feel like, especially when it comes to rules, that "less is more."


This is definitely part of it. The move to hardback codexes was used to justify doubling the price for the same content. If you like hardback books for their durability that may be acceptable, however there is the problem of increasing the weight and bulk of stuff to carry around. Durability is not really an issue when an edition only lasts four years.

Core wargamers are not necessarily interested in the extra stuff. I want the rules, not the fluff, art and modelling articles. If I wanted the extra stuff I could buy Black Library books, "How To Paint Citadel Miniatures" and so on. Or just buy White Dwarf and whatever the monthly magazine is called that is full of pics.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856674.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856674.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
Still think £30 is a bit much for a book. Considering Bernard Cornwall's stuff does not pass £20 when Hardback, nor Conn Iggulden's signed copy of War of the Roses. but at least they are quality I guess

On the Rulebooks, I think it is fine for a collectors idea, but the true collectors pack is just stupid tbh. However I really think there should also be a cheaper alternative for people picking up the hobby, considering the next development of the starter pack won't be out till later in the year, give us A5 copy no fluff just rules.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856692.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856692.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Swastakowey wrote:
Yea I agree, its pricey. But if we are gonna argue whats truly overpriced we need to look at how much the company is making of it. To get to the real source of the answer.

So id say its expensive to all, overpriced unknown and personal value subjective.

I guess that leaves expensive as the only confirmed truth.



Well on the subject of value, it is subjective, but there are some objective components of "value" that we can debate. For myself, if 7th was an edition that did a big overhaul and fixed a lot of things, I would be okay with the price because I think the game needs this and it also clearly wouldn't just be a bunch of relatively minor changes which appeared to be there to justify a big cash grab. But it seems to me from my reading of the forums that there aren't that many changes. There are some. Psychic seems the big switch, but the rest is minor stuff more worthy of an errata than anything else.

When Shadowrun 4th edition came out, they did a 4.5 version that fixed a lot of little issues and tweaked various rules. They did publish a 4.5 rule book (the Shadowrun Anniversary Edition) but you could also just download the update document and print it out and tuck it in your original book. The changes I'm seeing in 7th aren't that small, but they're not large either.

So whilst "value" might be entirely subjective for someone buying in new, to someone upgrading from 6th, there's objectively not much extra they're getting over what they already have.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856890.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856890.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856895.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6856895.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price GW made 3-part BRB as a way of compromise between selling just the rules and us having to carry around the BrickRuleBook, actually making it easier for us and.. people still whine. Sure, they could sell the rules separately, but they don't. They almost never did and suddenly expecting them to do so this time is.. mentally impaired.

As for the poll.. I'm somewhat okay with the price, didn't expect anything else to be honest. Of course it's not optimal price, but then again EVERYTHING could be cheaper anyway, so that's not an argument.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6857342.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6857342.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Klerych wrote:
Hah, ridiculous.. GW made 3-part BRB as a way of compromise between selling just the rules and us having to carry around the BrickRuleBook, actually making it easier for us and.. people still whine. Sure, they could sell the rules separately, but they don't. They almost never did and suddenly expecting them to do so this time is.. mentally impaired.

It's a good thing no one here is expecting them to - just criticising GW for not doing it which is perfectly valid.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6857370.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6857370.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
Either it is worth it and you buy it or its not and you dont. Seems pretty straight forward to me]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6857384.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6857384.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Yonan wrote:
 Klerych wrote:
Hah, ridiculous.. GW made 3-part BRB as a way of compromise between selling just the rules and us having to carry around the BrickRuleBook, actually making it easier for us and.. people still whine. Sure, they could sell the rules separately, but they don't. They almost never did and suddenly expecting them to do so this time is.. mentally impaired.

It's a good thing no one here is expecting them to - just criticising GW for not doing it which is perfectly valid.


They're hardly doing it to make it easier for anyone, I have to say.

 Yonan wrote:
From wrote:
Some people will hold off for the starter minibook, some will buy the big rulebook, and others will pay twice for the BRB + the starter

Others are sick of it all and will download it, not giving GW a cent.


I have never bought a GW book. More money for models, and all. In all the books I have "acquired", I almost never read the fluff that isn't in unit entries. Not because it doesn't interest me but because I already know it. Most of the fluff in the BRB is an introduction to the setting. "There is only war", and "Space Marines are really manly" and "The Horus Heresy happened, oh and there are some aliens too". I know all of this already. The new content is usually just descriptions of battles I don't care about. Any interesting stories or whatever will crop up in discussion on Dakka or elsewhere online. In short, I can not be bothered to read through all that just to see if there's some fluff I actually enjoy - and if there is, it's still not worth the price of the book.

The other thing to consider is that the fluff has zero value to a new player, and that they must also buy the rulebook in conjunction with a codex. I had a hard enough time getting certain friends to spend money in this hobby as it is, without also convincing them to get the books. I'm not saying that it is not worth it for everyone - the fallacy that keeps coming up in this thread - but that it's a bad thing. Nobody can argue that attracting new players to the hobby is a good thing. So while this book is not worth it for me (the same as every other GW book), the most important thing to consider is if it's worth it to a person who is not already in the hobby, who already has to deal with the high price of the miniatures.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6857497.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6857497.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price http://www.amazon.com/The-Empress-Theophano-Byzantium-Millennium/dp/0521524679
Like a lot of high level text books (not community college ones which are a rip off) this took a great deal of time and effort to put together. Research takes much more time than most people think. Heck, for a thirty page paper on the Carlisle Indian School it took me three months to get everything together.
GW demonstrably does not put forth near the effort.
So yes, textbooks are more expensive. Bad analogy when compared to a game rulebook.
For an accurate comparison we look to other game books. Yup, all cheaper.
Aileros said that the GW book is more expensive because it has a hard cover. That's a point for Warmachine there. Their book is half the price, contains more fluff, better written rules and also a lot of unit information from many factions.

It's yet another way GW can charge more for not much added. Some people like the hardcovers. Power to them. I don't. I'd rather have an affordable rulebook.



And the rules are messy, no play testing and often don't go with the fluff. I sometimes seriously have to wonder if the people at GW even play or understand their own game.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6858234.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6858234.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Klerych wrote:
Hah, ridiculous.. GW made 3-part BRB as a way of compromise between selling just the rules and us having to carry around the BrickRuleBook, actually making it easier for us and.. people still whine. Sure, they could sell the rules separately, but they don't. They almost never did and suddenly expecting them to do so this time is.. mentally impaired.

As for the poll.. I'm somewhat okay with the price, didn't expect anything else to be honest. Of course it's not optimal price, but then again EVERYTHING could be cheaper anyway, so that's not an argument.

They're doing it because it costs them less to print three smaller books than one big one. Simple as that.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but they're not in great shape in terms of long-term outlook. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6858732.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6858732.page GMT Re:40k Rulebook Price
 MWHistorian wrote:
Here's a text book I used in one of my courses.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Empress-Theophano-Byzantium-Millennium/dp/0521524679
Like a lot of high level text books (not community college ones which are a rip off) this took a great deal of time and effort to put together. Research takes much more time than most people think. Heck, for a thirty page paper on the Carlisle Indian School it took me three months to get everything together.
GW demonstrably does not put forth near the effort.
So yes, textbooks are more expensive. Bad analogy when compared to a game rulebook.
For an accurate comparison we look to other game books. Yup, all cheaper.
Aileros said that the GW book is more expensive because it has a hard cover. That's a point for Warmachine there. Their book is half the price, contains more fluff, better written rules and also a lot of unit information from many factions.

It's yet another way GW can charge more for not much added. Some people like the hardcovers. Power to them. I don't. I'd rather have an affordable rulebook.



And the rules are messy, no play testing and often don't go with the fluff. I sometimes seriously have to wonder if the people at GW even play or understand their own game.


That's it? Here's just one of mine:

http://www.amazon.com/Calculus-James-Stewart/dp/0538497815/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400873791&sr=1-1&keywords=stewart

And it was a poorly written piece of garbage. Glad I got mine used. And then, as a class, we all started either pooling resources or buying the international versions.

If they had put out just "The Rules" for $35, I think this edition change would be easier to swallow. Then make the digital version $20 and bam, you'd have everyone just talking about the game and not the price. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6858746.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6858746.page GMT 40k Rulebook Price
 Accolade wrote:
 Kojiro wrote:
 Accolade wrote:

Why would they want to, they're the Ferrari of models!

vvvrrrrrroooooooommmmmm!!!!

Because Ferrari is worth something like 7.1 billion. Which is nothing to laugh at, until you realise Toyota is worth 250+ billion. There's something to be said for having a large customer base and being affordable. You can't even rely on them to get greed right.


I think they like the idea of feeling superior to all others that Ferrari *may* harbor (I have no idea, haven't worked with them much in my life ).

GW is way above those temporary fads like Pokemon. I mean, what was that old game worth, like a million dollars? Whatever, don't have time to listen to you while I'm counting my stock.

*closes 3ds and looks up* yeah what is that anyways not like this 3ds was bought for only 2 Pokemon games and I only have 3 3ds games nope I don't know what you are talking about *sweats*

As per 40k. They've finally hit me out by prices combined with business practices. Add to that them being the only shop that allows war gaming and they are closing it despite an upturn in yells under the current employee who makes the place worth it to open a bigger one sometime in a year or two they've kicked me out and crushed war gaming in general for me. I wish there was a hobby shop somewhere within 30 minutes or 40 that sold wargames]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6858936.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/595916/6858936.page GMT