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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ here's my hat thrown in the ring using the Glotkin Book:<br /> <br /> Lords<br /> Orghotts Daemonspew- 430<br /> Malagor The Dark Omen- 350<br /> <br /> Heros<br /> Exalted Hero- <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span>, Scaled Skin, Dragonhelm, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>BSB</span>- 181<br /> Bray Shaman (Beasts)- <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(471);'>DS</span>- 100<br /> Bray Shaman (Beasts)- 75<br /> <br /> Core<br /> 29 Gor- AHW, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(397);'>FC</span>- 315<br /> 29 Gor- AHW, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(397);'>FC</span>- 315<br /> 5 Ungor Raiders- 30<br /> 5 Ungor Raiders- 30<br /> 5 Ungor Raiders- 30<br /> 5 Ungor Raiders- 30<br /> <br /> Special<br /> 10 Blight Kings- Standard, Musician- 420<br /> 28 Bestigor- <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(397);'>FC</span>- 422<br /> <br /> Rare<br /> Skull Cannon- 135<br /> Skull Cannon- 135<br /> <br /> Total= 2998<br /> <br /> Bray Shaman in each Gor unit.<br /> Malagor and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>BSB</span> in Bestigor<br /> Rest is pretty Self-explanatory<br /> <br /> Thoughts Please Dakka.<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 3 Nov 2014 13:22:07]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mixer86]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ This list has a glaring issue. Gor aren't worth taking without the Beast Banner. Especially when you have access to plaguebearers or Warriors.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 3 Nov 2014 15:14:17]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ thedarkavenger]]></author>
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				<title>Re:[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ sorry, but gors kind of suck. =/ your core is not strong enough to hold, I recommend some warriors or daemons.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 3 Nov 2014 16:04:03]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Brennonjw]]></author>
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				<title>Re:[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ i know Gor are considered a mediocre choice but there is a beast wizard in each unit for a wssyans each, and they are there to support the Blight Kings and Bestigor rather than be straight up head to head fighting.<br /> <br /> Also makes perfect money sense as the battlion contains everything i need for core and bestigor needs.<br /> <br /> Having said that <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span> helps their survivability a lot.<br /> <br /> I did also consider <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(99);'>MoK</span> to combine well with AHW.<br /> <br /> i could rock 5 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span> Chariots instead, but i don't see why Gor are so bad. ok str3 isn't great, but its cheap, tough hordes for core.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 3 Nov 2014 17:38:25]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mixer86]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Whilst it might seem like a good idea to put beast wizards in units of gor for the extra strength and toughness, plus giving them an extra hand weapon. But because of that both units have a combined cost of over 800 points. That would get you 40 Chaos Warriors with <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span>, Halberds and Shields. They have better S regardless of magic and a better armour save to mitigate the extra toughness, plus there is less chance of a wizard exploding and knocking half the unit out. And because you are putting dice every turn into those two spells, you are not going to have enough spare dice to make proper use of Malagor.<br /> <br /> Malagor works best when he has plenty of dice in order to gain massive bonuses, but your list takes that away from him because you need spells on the Gor, replace them with warriors or something else and drop one of the Bray Shamans, Otherwise drop Malagor because he costs over 100 points more than a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(347);'>lvl</span> 4 shaman and has nothing to show for it.<br /> <br /> I think 10 Blightkings is too many, break it down into two units of 5. Otherwise they are too wide to attack and to hard to move properly, plus the back rank only get one attack each, meaning that, at full strength, you are down ten attacks.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:15:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ welshhoppo]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ It's not that gor suck. Without the beast banner, they do nothing. S3 and T4 is meh. Beast magic is an ill fitting glove of a substitute. As it's highly probable that you won't get it, and requires putting a shaman into combat. <br /> <br /> Either drop the gor for plaguebearers or warriors, or get a unit of 50 with the Beast banner. Put a wildform on that unit and it becomes tough as nails. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 3 Nov 2014 20:31:48]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ thedarkavenger]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'd try and find the way to get your <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>bsb</span> the dawnstone.  People will be directing attacks against him like no other.  I know I would if you played against me.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 01:08:53]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ nathan2004]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Lots of comments. Great! Ok, deep breath............<br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Whilst it might seem like a good idea to put beast wizards in units of gor for the extra strength and toughness, plus giving them an extra hand weapon. But because of that both units have a combined cost of over 800 points. That would get you 40 Chaos Warriors with <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span>, Halberds and Shields. They have better S regardless of magic and a better armour save to mitigate the extra toughness, plus there is less chance of a wizard exploding and knocking half the unit out. And because you are putting dice every turn into those two spells, you are not going to have enough spare dice to make proper use of Malagor.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span> Warriors are boss no doubt, i was trying to write a list utilising Beastmen core and not resorting to the standard <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span> warriors or chariots. May re-think the core though.<br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Malagor works best when he has plenty of dice in order to gain massive bonuses, but your list takes that away from him because you need spells on the Gor, replace them with warriors or something else and drop one of the Bray Shamans, Otherwise drop Malagor because he costs over 100 points more than a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(347);'>lvl</span> 4 shaman and has nothing to show for it.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Malagor grants frenzy on any double for primal fury for a start, he has another item/rule i cannot recall off the top of my head. something that in an all Beastmen core would take full advantage of.<br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>I think 10 Blightkings is too many, break it down into two units of 5. Otherwise they are too wide to attack and to hard to move properly, plus the back rank only get one attack each, meaning that, at full strength, you are down ten attacks.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> how is 5 wide too wide? same with as a 20mm horde unit. the second rank lends support attacks AND makes sure my front rank is full for as long as possible. the enemy have to do 15 wounds before they start really reducing the units damage output.<br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>It's not that gor suck. Without the beast banner, they do nothing. S3 and T4 is meh. Beast magic is an ill fitting glove of a substitute. As it's highly probable that you won't get it, and requires putting a shaman into combat.<br /> <br /> Either drop the gor for plaguebearers or warriors, or get a unit of 50 with the Beast banner. Put a wildform on that unit and it becomes tough as nails. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Perhaps i didn't make it clear but i want to run Lore of Beasts on both for wildform on both units of Gor, not "Beast" magic.<br /> <br /> i did originally think of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(718);'>PB</span>'s, but with the rule that only daemon characters can join daemon units that kind of went for a burton. Warriors are boss but then makes it the same as everyone elses list.<br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>I'd try and find the way to get your <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>bsb</span> the dawnstone. People will be directing attacks against him like no other. I know I would if you played against me.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I think i would rather have a ward than a reroll armour but i see your point. the intention was to park him on the extremity's of the Bestigor to minimise attacks at him though. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 07:32:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mixer86]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I know you meant beasts. So did I. Without the guaranteed S4, you migh as well spam khornate/Nurgle chariots. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:43:16]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ thedarkavenger]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/37c7d1abb00448dd90b1fcafa03e7a33.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621736/7329699.page"><b>thedarkavenger wrote:</b></a><br/>I know you meant beasts. So did I. Without the guaranteed S4, you migh as well spam khornate/Nurgle chariots. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Exactly what i want to try and avoid other wise the list is the same as every other chaos player near me.<br /> <br /> Have taken peoples comments on board and have just conceived this list. Bit different to the original but addresses a lot of the first lists problems:<br /> <br /> The Glotkin<br /> Festus Empowered<br /> <br /> Exalted Hero- <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span>, Scaled Skin, Dragon Helm, Dawnstone, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>BSB</span><br /> Bray Shaman- Dispel Scroll<br /> <br /> 36 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(385);'>WoC</span>- <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(100);'>MoN</span>, Halberds, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(397);'>FC</span><br /> 5 Ungor Raiders<br /> 5 Ungor Raiders<br /> 5 Ungor Raiders<br /> 5 Ungor Raiders<br /> <br /> 10 Blight Kings- Standard/Musician<br /> Razorgor<br /> Razorgor<br /> <br /> Skull Cannon<br /> Skull Cannon<br /> <br /> = 2998<br /> <br /> Theory:<br /> <br /> Glotkin, Warriors and Blight Kings form the Battle-line.<br /> Festus, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>BSB</span> and Scroll Caddy join the Warriors<br /> Ungor harass.<br /> Razorgor support.<br /> Cannons are cannons.<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:51:13]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mixer86]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Malagor granting frenzy on a double is good. But you have to remember that Beastmen leadership is poor at best and whilst I can't work out the averages, you only have a 16.67% chance of rolling a double on two dice, considering that doubles of 5's and 6's don't count, it isn't going to be very reliable.<br /> <br /> You have to remember that the role of beastmen core isn't to fight, because they do so poorly, their role is to gum up the enemy with fur and vomit and let something else do the killing for them. S3 and even S4 on a combat unit is pretty poor.<br /> <br /> The reason I said ten was too many, is because that two hundred points spent on excess wounds is a little over the top.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:06:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ welshhoppo]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/ae169344f3b5ccf1320346b3e90bc790.jpeg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621736/7329723.page"><b>welshhoppo wrote:</b></a><br/>Malagor granting frenzy on a double is good. But you have to remember that Beastmen leadership is poor at best and whilst I can't work out the averages, you only have a 16.67% chance of rolling a double on two dice, considering that doubles of 5's and 6's don't count, it isn't going to be very reliable.<br /> <br /> You have to remember that the role of beastmen core isn't to fight, because they do so poorly, their role is to gum up the enemy with fur and vomit and let something else do the killing for them. S3 and even S4 on a combat unit is pretty poor.<br /> <br /> The reason I said ten was too many, is because that two hundred points spent on excess wounds is a little over the top.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Well the original list was going to use the Gor units as supporters for Blight kings and Bestigor so the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(123);'>Str</span> 4 wasn't paramount.<br /> <br /> What do you think of the "new" list?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:42:08]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mixer86]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'm not entirely convinced by the Glottkin, make sure you keep him away from anyone with death or shadow, becuae theyll probably knock him out in one.<br /> <br /> I'd say the unit of warriors is a little big, maybe cut it in half<br /> <br /> I haven't really seen the rules for festus empowered, but is he really worth the additional points over regular festus?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:46:56]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ welshhoppo]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/ae169344f3b5ccf1320346b3e90bc790.jpeg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621736/7329755.page"><b>welshhoppo wrote:</b></a><br/>I'm not entirely convinced by the Glottkin, make sure you keep him away from anyone with death or shadow, becuae theyll probably knock him out in one.<br /> <br /> I'd say the unit of warriors is a little big, maybe cut it in half<br /> <br /> I haven't really seen the rules for festus empowered, but is he really worth the additional points over regular festus?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Shadow and Death is a concern for Glotkin, but the model is awesome and he is pretty boss, the Level 4 element is very nice too.<br /> <br /> In my gaming area, i will regularly face units of 18 ironguts, 40+ stormvermin and longbeards so i think i need the numbers.<br /> <br /> Festus Empowered is amazing.<br /> <br /> Still grants poison to unit<br /> Still grants 5+ regen to unit<br /> <br /> on top of this<br /> <br /> +1 T<br /> +1 W<br /> Level 3 wizard<br /> enemies must treat all difficult terrain on the battlefield as dangerous terrain<br /> Auto passes <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(82);'>Ld</span> test to become a daemon prince<br /> All friendly units within 12" of festus count as being in hard cover. that's -2 for all shooting against a 24" buuble around him<br /> <br /> all this for an extra 130 points.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:53:51]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mixer86]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ A good combo my group came up with is to take a gorebull <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>BSB</span> with the beast banner and mark of nurgle then either chucking him in a unit of blight kings. Another idea is to take him in a big block of nurgle warriors with additional hand weapons MON and festus. So he basically gives the unit fear, frenzy and plus 1S. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:09:42]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Dish2296]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621736/7329780.page"><b>Dish2296 wrote:</b></a><br/>A good combo my group came up with is to take a gorebull <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>BSB</span> with the beast banner and mark of nurgle then either chucking him in a unit of blight kings. Another idea is to take him in a big block of nurgle warriors with additional hand weapons MON and festus. So he basically gives the unit fear, frenzy and plus 1S. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> While i agree the rules combo is nice, you are aware that the gorebull can be picked out with no look out sir because he is monsterous infantry and Blight Kings and Warriors are infantry?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:11:59]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mixer86]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/c2c82298157ee1674c82102a285dc928.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621736/7329782.page"><b>mixer86 wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621736/7329780.page"><b>Dish2296 wrote:</b></a><br/>A good combo my group came up with is to take a gorebull <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>BSB</span> with the beast banner and mark of nurgle then either chucking him in a unit of blight kings. Another idea is to take him in a big block of nurgle warriors with additional hand weapons MON and festus. So he basically gives the unit fear, frenzy and plus 1S. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> While i agree the rules combo is nice, you are aware that the gorebull can be picked out with no look out sir because he is monsterous infantry and Blight Kings and Warriors are infantry?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> It is a simple fix by taking a worgor]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:19:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ namiel]]></author>
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				<title>[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/d2c3cc86da45dee7cecb1e5448e3fe42.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621736/7330058.page"><b>namiel wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote><div><img src="https://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/c2c82298157ee1674c82102a285dc928.jpg" height="20" border="0">&nbsp;<a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621736/7329782.page"><b>mixer86 wrote:</b></a><br/><blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/621736/7329780.page"><b>Dish2296 wrote:</b></a><br/>A good combo my group came up with is to take a gorebull <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(174);'>BSB</span> with the beast banner and mark of nurgle then either chucking him in a unit of blight kings. Another idea is to take him in a big block of nurgle warriors with additional hand weapons MON and festus. So he basically gives the unit fear, frenzy and plus 1S. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> While i agree the rules combo is nice, you are aware that the gorebull can be picked out with no look out sir because he is monsterous infantry and Blight Kings and Warriors are infantry?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> It is a simple fix by taking a worgor</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> true, though i'm not sure the revised list needs the beast banner. Very good yes but pretty pricey. plus a wargor is nowhere near as survivable or as punchy as an exalted hero. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 4 Nov 2014 21:22:03]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mixer86]]></author>
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				<title>Re:[3000] - Chaos United</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ i have another decision to make before i start purchasing.<br /> <br /> do i take:<br /> <br /> 1. Glotkin<br /> <br /> OR<br /> <br /> 2. for 5 points more, Orghotts Daemonspew AND Morbidex?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 7 Nov 2014 10:04:38]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mixer86]]></author>
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