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here's my hat thrown in the ring using the Glotkin Book:

Lords
Orghotts Daemonspew- 430
Malagor The Dark Omen- 350

Heros
Exalted Hero- MoN, GW, Scaled Skin, Dragonhelm, BSB- 181
Bray Shaman (Beasts)- DS- 100
Bray Shaman (Beasts)- 75

Core
29 Gor- AHW, MoN, FC- 315
29 Gor- AHW, MoN, FC- 315
5 Ungor Raiders- 30
5 Ungor Raiders- 30
5 Ungor Raiders- 30
5 Ungor Raiders- 30

Special
10 Blight Kings- Standard, Musician- 420
28 Bestigor- MoN, FC- 422

Rare
Skull Cannon- 135
Skull Cannon- 135

Total= 2998

Bray Shaman in each Gor unit.
Malagor and BSB in Bestigor
Rest is pretty Self-explanatory

Thoughts Please Dakka.

This list has a glaring issue. Gor aren't worth taking without the Beast Banner. Especially when you have access to plaguebearers or Warriors.

sorry, but gors kind of suck. =/ your core is not strong enough to hold, I recommend some warriors or daemons.

i know Gor are considered a mediocre choice but there is a beast wizard in each unit for a wssyans each, and they are there to support the Blight Kings and Bestigor rather than be straight up head to head fighting.

Also makes perfect money sense as the battlion contains everything i need for core and bestigor needs.

Having said that MoN helps their survivability a lot.

I did also consider MoK to combine well with AHW.

i could rock 5 MoN Chariots instead, but i don't see why Gor are so bad. ok str3 isn't great, but its cheap, tough hordes for core.

Whilst it might seem like a good idea to put beast wizards in units of gor for the extra strength and toughness, plus giving them an extra hand weapon. But because of that both units have a combined cost of over 800 points. That would get you 40 Chaos Warriors with MoN, Halberds and Shields. They have better S regardless of magic and a better armour save to mitigate the extra toughness, plus there is less chance of a wizard exploding and knocking half the unit out. And because you are putting dice every turn into those two spells, you are not going to have enough spare dice to make proper use of Malagor.

Malagor works best when he has plenty of dice in order to gain massive bonuses, but your list takes that away from him because you need spells on the Gor, replace them with warriors or something else and drop one of the Bray Shamans, Otherwise drop Malagor because he costs over 100 points more than a lvl 4 shaman and has nothing to show for it.

I think 10 Blightkings is too many, break it down into two units of 5. Otherwise they are too wide to attack and to hard to move properly, plus the back rank only get one attack each, meaning that, at full strength, you are down ten attacks.

It's not that gor suck. Without the beast banner, they do nothing. S3 and T4 is meh. Beast magic is an ill fitting glove of a substitute. As it's highly probable that you won't get it, and requires putting a shaman into combat.

Either drop the gor for plaguebearers or warriors, or get a unit of 50 with the Beast banner. Put a wildform on that unit and it becomes tough as nails.

I'd try and find the way to get your bsb the dawnstone. People will be directing attacks against him like no other. I know I would if you played against me.

Lots of comments. Great! Ok, deep breath............

Whilst it might seem like a good idea to put beast wizards in units of gor for the extra strength and toughness, plus giving them an extra hand weapon. But because of that both units have a combined cost of over 800 points. That would get you 40 Chaos Warriors with MoN, Halberds and Shields. They have better S regardless of magic and a better armour save to mitigate the extra toughness, plus there is less chance of a wizard exploding and knocking half the unit out. And because you are putting dice every turn into those two spells, you are not going to have enough spare dice to make proper use of Malagor.

MoN Warriors are boss no doubt, i was trying to write a list utilising Beastmen core and not resorting to the standard MoN warriors or chariots. May re-think the core though.

Malagor works best when he has plenty of dice in order to gain massive bonuses, but your list takes that away from him because you need spells on the Gor, replace them with warriors or something else and drop one of the Bray Shamans, Otherwise drop Malagor because he costs over 100 points more than a lvl 4 shaman and has nothing to show for it.

Malagor grants frenzy on any double for primal fury for a start, he has another item/rule i cannot recall off the top of my head. something that in an all Beastmen core would take full advantage of.

I think 10 Blightkings is too many, break it down into two units of 5. Otherwise they are too wide to attack and to hard to move properly, plus the back rank only get one attack each, meaning that, at full strength, you are down ten attacks.

how is 5 wide too wide? same with as a 20mm horde unit. the second rank lends support attacks AND makes sure my front rank is full for as long as possible. the enemy have to do 15 wounds before they start really reducing the units damage output.

It's not that gor suck. Without the beast banner, they do nothing. S3 and T4 is meh. Beast magic is an ill fitting glove of a substitute. As it's highly probable that you won't get it, and requires putting a shaman into combat.

Either drop the gor for plaguebearers or warriors, or get a unit of 50 with the Beast banner. Put a wildform on that unit and it becomes tough as nails.

Perhaps i didn't make it clear but i want to run Lore of Beasts on both for wildform on both units of Gor, not "Beast" magic.

i did originally think of PB's, but with the rule that only daemon characters can join daemon units that kind of went for a burton. Warriors are boss but then makes it the same as everyone elses list.

I'd try and find the way to get your bsb the dawnstone. People will be directing attacks against him like no other. I know I would if you played against me.

I think i would rather have a ward than a reroll armour but i see your point. the intention was to park him on the extremity's of the Bestigor to minimise attacks at him though.

I know you meant beasts. So did I. Without the guaranteed S4, you migh as well spam khornate/Nurgle chariots.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
I know you meant beasts. So did I. Without the guaranteed S4, you migh as well spam khornate/Nurgle chariots.

Exactly what i want to try and avoid other wise the list is the same as every other chaos player near me.

Have taken peoples comments on board and have just conceived this list. Bit different to the original but addresses a lot of the first lists problems:

The Glotkin
Festus Empowered

Exalted Hero- MoN, GW, Scaled Skin, Dragon Helm, Dawnstone, BSB
Bray Shaman- Dispel Scroll

36 WoC- MoN, Halberds, FC
5 Ungor Raiders
5 Ungor Raiders
5 Ungor Raiders
5 Ungor Raiders

10 Blight Kings- Standard/Musician
Razorgor
Razorgor

Skull Cannon
Skull Cannon

= 2998

Theory:

Glotkin, Warriors and Blight Kings form the Battle-line.
Festus, BSB and Scroll Caddy join the Warriors
Ungor harass.
Razorgor support.
Cannons are cannons.

Malagor granting frenzy on a double is good. But you have to remember that Beastmen leadership is poor at best and whilst I can't work out the averages, you only have a 16.67% chance of rolling a double on two dice, considering that doubles of 5's and 6's don't count, it isn't going to be very reliable.

You have to remember that the role of beastmen core isn't to fight, because they do so poorly, their role is to gum up the enemy with fur and vomit and let something else do the killing for them. S3 and even S4 on a combat unit is pretty poor.

The reason I said ten was too many, is because that two hundred points spent on excess wounds is a little over the top.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Malagor granting frenzy on a double is good. But you have to remember that Beastmen leadership is poor at best and whilst I can't work out the averages, you only have a 16.67% chance of rolling a double on two dice, considering that doubles of 5's and 6's don't count, it isn't going to be very reliable.

You have to remember that the role of beastmen core isn't to fight, because they do so poorly, their role is to gum up the enemy with fur and vomit and let something else do the killing for them. S3 and even S4 on a combat unit is pretty poor.

The reason I said ten was too many, is because that two hundred points spent on excess wounds is a little over the top.

Well the original list was going to use the Gor units as supporters for Blight kings and Bestigor so the Str 4 wasn't paramount.

What do you think of the "new" list?

I'm not entirely convinced by the Glottkin, make sure you keep him away from anyone with death or shadow, becuae theyll probably knock him out in one.

I'd say the unit of warriors is a little big, maybe cut it in half

I haven't really seen the rules for festus empowered, but is he really worth the additional points over regular festus?

 welshhoppo wrote:
I'm not entirely convinced by the Glottkin, make sure you keep him away from anyone with death or shadow, becuae theyll probably knock him out in one.

I'd say the unit of warriors is a little big, maybe cut it in half

I haven't really seen the rules for festus empowered, but is he really worth the additional points over regular festus?

Shadow and Death is a concern for Glotkin, but the model is awesome and he is pretty boss, the Level 4 element is very nice too.

In my gaming area, i will regularly face units of 18 ironguts, 40+ stormvermin and longbeards so i think i need the numbers.

Festus Empowered is amazing.

Still grants poison to unit
Still grants 5+ regen to unit

on top of this

+1 T
+1 W
Level 3 wizard
enemies must treat all difficult terrain on the battlefield as dangerous terrain
Auto passes Ld test to become a daemon prince
All friendly units within 12" of festus count as being in hard cover. that's -2 for all shooting against a 24" buuble around him

all this for an extra 130 points.

A good combo my group came up with is to take a gorebull BSB with the beast banner and mark of nurgle then either chucking him in a unit of blight kings. Another idea is to take him in a big block of nurgle warriors with additional hand weapons MON and festus. So he basically gives the unit fear, frenzy and plus 1S.

Dish2296 wrote:
A good combo my group came up with is to take a gorebull BSB with the beast banner and mark of nurgle then either chucking him in a unit of blight kings. Another idea is to take him in a big block of nurgle warriors with additional hand weapons MON and festus. So he basically gives the unit fear, frenzy and plus 1S.

While i agree the rules combo is nice, you are aware that the gorebull can be picked out with no look out sir because he is monsterous infantry and Blight Kings and Warriors are infantry?

 mixer86 wrote:

Dish2296 wrote:
A good combo my group came up with is to take a gorebull BSB with the beast banner and mark of nurgle then either chucking him in a unit of blight kings. Another idea is to take him in a big block of nurgle warriors with additional hand weapons MON and festus. So he basically gives the unit fear, frenzy and plus 1S.

While i agree the rules combo is nice, you are aware that the gorebull can be picked out with no look out sir because he is monsterous infantry and Blight Kings and Warriors are infantry?

It is a simple fix by taking a worgor

 namiel wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:

Dish2296 wrote:
A good combo my group came up with is to take a gorebull BSB with the beast banner and mark of nurgle then either chucking him in a unit of blight kings. Another idea is to take him in a big block of nurgle warriors with additional hand weapons MON and festus. So he basically gives the unit fear, frenzy and plus 1S.

While i agree the rules combo is nice, you are aware that the gorebull can be picked out with no look out sir because he is monsterous infantry and Blight Kings and Warriors are infantry?

It is a simple fix by taking a worgor

true, though i'm not sure the revised list needs the beast banner. Very good yes but pretty pricey. plus a wargor is nowhere near as survivable or as punchy as an exalted hero.

i have another decision to make before i start purchasing.

do i take:

1. Glotkin

OR

2. for 5 points more, Orghotts Daemonspew AND Morbidex?