<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Harlequin questions"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/15.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Harlequin questions
the wording on the kiss of death rule the you would seam to imply you still get the kiss of death attack when using the Caress
the exact wording is:

Kiss of Death: When a model equipped with a Harlequin’s Kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of its Attacks will be a Kiss of Death Attack (roll this Attack separately).

From the brb:
"If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons."

I would probably go with the brb rule overrides the "When a model equipped with" wording are their any other cases of this wording.


2.
Caress of Death: Each To Hit roll of a 6 made by a weapon with this special rule causes a single automatic Wound, regardless of the target’s Toughness, and is resolved at AP2. Against vehicles, each To Hit roll of a 6 causes a single automatic glancing hit.

common sense would say that the roll of a six to hit is removed from the roll to wound pool but this is not stated and can think of no raw support for this action.
This would mean a single attack could cause two wounds why is this interpretation wrong.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652477.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652477.page GMT Harlequin questions http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/633677.page]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652553.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652553.page GMT Harlequin questions http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652601.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652601.page GMT Harlequin questions Raw certainly no, RaI seems certainly yes but not so obvious that some people will argue against it (the same crowd that wanted Grav guns to ignore cover, Phase Shifterz to give a 3++ to a CCB and Farsight Enclaves armies to all include Aun'va and Shadowsun)...

2. Again RaW it appears you are correct. Likewise the intent of auto wound strongly implies this replaces the to wound roll.

Personally HIWPI is the Solitaire still gets his kiss of death attack (though gets no other weapon special rules like shred). However any 6s to hit don't roll to wound but instead auto wound.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652703.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652703.page GMT Harlequin questions
Monofilament wrote:...if a 6 is rolled To Wound with this weapon, the target is wounded automatically...

Bladestorm wrote:...When a weapon with this special rule rolls a 6 To Wound, the target is wounded automatically...


The wording is not identical, but it is incredibly similar. I would play it so the to hit roll causes a single automatic wound, rather than causing an additional wound.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652771.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652771.page GMT Harlequin questions
Bojazz wrote:
Regarding the second question, Monofilament and Bladestorm are worded similarly to the caress but nobody plays it that they cause additional wounds.
Monofilament wrote:...if a 6 is rolled To Wound with this weapon, the target is wounded automatically...

Bladestorm wrote:...When a weapon with this special rule rolls a 6 To Wound, the target is wounded automatically...


The wording is not identical, but it is incredibly similar. I would play it so the to hit roll causes a single automatic wound, rather than causing an additional wound.


Because blafestorm/monofilament are rolls to wound. Where as caress is roll to hit so you still need to roll to wound. The 6 causes an auto wound at the to hit step with no instructions to cancel our to wound step for that attack.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652860.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7652860.page GMT Harlequin questions HIWPI -

1. The kiss/caress combo allows a single kiss of death attack though as already pointed out the RAW/RAI argument leads to no clear conclusion.

2. The caress does not get to roll again to wound after a 6. This wording is almost identical to rending from 4th ed in that a 6 to hit auto wounds.

I can see the train of thought about the caress in regards to rolling to wound but I think common sense would say you don't get to double dip the wound pool!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7653341.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7653341.page GMT Harlequin questions As far as number 2, I feel like that is reaching a bit, and not how I have been playing it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7656356.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7656356.page GMT Harlequin questions
 Massaen wrote:
HIWPI -

1. The kiss/caress combo allows a single kiss of death attack though as already pointed out the RAW/RAI argument leads to no clear conclusion.

2. The caress does not get to roll again to wound after a 6. This wording is almost identical to rending from 4th ed in that a 6 to hit auto wounds.

I can see the train of thought about the caress in regards to rolling to wound but I think common sense would say you don't get to double dip the wound pool!


Well, RaW is clear. RaI isn't, but RaI never is short of an extra commentary by the author. I do agree that the Kiss/Caress combo is likely what they intended, but from a strict rules as written standpoint, using both when making To Hit rolls is mixing and matching weapon abilities when a model comes to strike blows... which the big rule book strictly forbids.

Yeah, and 1 hit => 1 wound. You can't get more than 1 hit per wound.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7657030.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7657030.page GMT Re:Harlequin questions RaW on this, i'd say read this:

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target.


The rule you quoted "causes a single automatic Wound."

Why would you need "to see if it wounds" if you have caused the Automatic Wound? To me, "For each shot that hit" you need to see if you get a Wound, but if you are given one, where is your allowance to roll To Wound again? (you only get the allowance if the Hit "to see if it wounds").

 FlingitNow wrote:
The 6 causes an auto wound at the to hit step with no instructions to cancel our to wound step for that attack.


And i would also disagree with this. Per the RaW:
"causes a single automatic Wound, regardless of the target’s Toughness, and is resolved at AP2"

Causing an Auto-Wound, just like Auto-Hits, replace the To Wound or To Hit process. Even if this process is still "resolved" (as above).


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7657049.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7657049.page GMT Harlequin questions
The fact that the solitaire is the only thing in the game that has this as an option leads me to believe it is something that makes him special. And no, we don't allow the kiss attack in addition to grenade attacks. The rule states you get a single attack, so one of them cannot be the kiss attack.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7657378.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/639047/7657378.page GMT