| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
 |
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/08 19:08:42
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
1.The solitaire has two weapons Harlequin’s Caress and the Harlequin’s Kiss.
the wording on the kiss of death rule the you would seam to imply you still get the kiss of death attack when using the Caress
the exact wording is:
Kiss of Death: When a model equipped with a Harlequin’s Kiss makes its close combat attacks, one of its Attacks will be a Kiss of Death Attack (roll this Attack separately).
From the brb:
"If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons."
I would probably go with the brb rule overrides the "When a model equipped with" wording are their any other cases of this wording.
2.
Caress of Death: Each To Hit roll of a 6 made by a weapon with this special rule causes a single automatic Wound, regardless of the target’s Toughness, and is resolved at AP2. Against vehicles, each To Hit roll of a 6 causes a single automatic glancing hit.
common sense would say that the roll of a six to hit is removed from the roll to wound pool but this is not stated and can think of no raw support for this action.
This would mean a single attack could cause two wounds why is this interpretation wrong.
|
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/03/08 21:59:00
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/08 19:42:47
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
General
|
|
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/08 20:02:42
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
So no consensus on first question what about the second.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/08 20:52:56
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
|
1. Raw certainly no, RaI seems certainly yes but not so obvious that some people will argue against it (the same crowd that wanted Grav guns to ignore cover, Phase Shifterz to give a 3++ to a CCB and Farsight Enclaves armies to all include Aun'va and Shadowsun)...
2. Again RaW it appears you are correct. Likewise the intent of auto wound strongly implies this replaces the to wound roll.
Personally HIWPI is the Solitaire still gets his kiss of death attack (though gets no other weapon special rules like shred). However any 6s to hit don't roll to wound but instead auto wound.
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/08 21:33:04
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
Foolproof Falcon Pilot
|
Regarding the second question, Monofilament and Bladestorm are worded similarly to the caress but nobody plays it that they cause additional wounds. Monofilament wrote:...if a 6 is rolled To Wound with this weapon, the target is wounded automatically... Bladestorm wrote:...When a weapon with this special rule rolls a 6 To Wound, the target is wounded automatically... The wording is not identical, but it is incredibly similar. I would play it so the to hit roll causes a single automatic wound, rather than causing an additional wound.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/08 21:34:24
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/08 22:21:31
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
|
Bojazz wrote:Regarding the second question, Monofilament and Bladestorm are worded similarly to the caress but nobody plays it that they cause additional wounds.
Monofilament wrote:...if a 6 is rolled To Wound with this weapon, the target is wounded automatically...
Bladestorm wrote:...When a weapon with this special rule rolls a 6 To Wound, the target is wounded automatically...
The wording is not identical, but it is incredibly similar. I would play it so the to hit roll causes a single automatic wound, rather than causing an additional wound.
Because blafestorm/monofilament are rolls to wound. Where as caress is roll to hit so you still need to roll to wound. The 6 causes an auto wound at the to hit step with no instructions to cancel our to wound step for that attack.
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/09 02:32:02
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
Screaming Shining Spear
|
HIWPI -
1. The kiss/caress combo allows a single kiss of death attack though as already pointed out the RAW/RAI argument leads to no clear conclusion.
2. The caress does not get to roll again to wound after a 6. This wording is almost identical to rending from 4th ed in that a 6 to hit auto wounds.
I can see the train of thought about the caress in regards to rolling to wound but I think common sense would say you don't get to double dip the wound pool!
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/10 02:45:15
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker
|
The way I see it in regards to 1, is that the harlequin kiss only states that the model needs to have it equipped and be attacking. It does not say that when the model attacks with this weapon do such and such. I have been playing it that way.
As far as number 2, I feel like that is reaching a bit, and not how I have been playing it.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/10 11:04:20
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity
|
Massaen wrote:HIWPI -
1. The kiss/caress combo allows a single kiss of death attack though as already pointed out the RAW/ RAI argument leads to no clear conclusion.
2. The caress does not get to roll again to wound after a 6. This wording is almost identical to rending from 4th ed in that a 6 to hit auto wounds.
I can see the train of thought about the caress in regards to rolling to wound but I think common sense would say you don't get to double dip the wound pool!
Well, RaW is clear. RaI isn't, but RaI never is short of an extra commentary by the author. I do agree that the Kiss/Caress combo is likely what they intended, but from a strict rules as written standpoint, using both when making To Hit rolls is mixing and matching weapon abilities when a model comes to strike blows... which the big rule book strictly forbids.
Yeah, and 1 hit => 1 wound. You can't get more than 1 hit per wound.
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/10 11:14:53
Subject: Re:Harlequin questions
|
 |
Confessor Of Sins
|
2. For the RaW on this, i'd say read this:
5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target.
The rule you quoted "causes a single automatic Wound."
Why would you need "to see if it wounds" if you have caused the Automatic Wound? To me, "For each shot that hit" you need to see if you get a Wound, but if you are given one, where is your allowance to roll To Wound again? (you only get the allowance if the Hit "to see if it wounds").
FlingitNow wrote:The 6 causes an auto wound at the to hit step with no instructions to cancel our to wound step for that attack.
And i would also disagree with this. Per the RaW:
"causes a single automatic Wound, regardless of the target’s Toughness, and is resolved at AP2"
Causing an Auto-Wound, just like Auto-Hits, replace the To Wound or To Hit process. Even if this process is still "resolved" (as above).
|
DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage. Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. |
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/10 14:09:56
Subject: Harlequin questions
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
My group has been playing it where you can use both. With cegorach's rose, the master crafted and shred ability only affect the one Harlequin's kiss attack. I see it as spending points to guarantee the Harlequin's kiss actually does something.
The fact that the solitaire is the only thing in the game that has this as an option leads me to believe it is something that makes him special. And no, we don't allow the kiss attack in addition to grenade attacks. The rule states you get a single attack, so one of them cannot be the kiss attack.
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
|
|