Latest posts for the thread "Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??"

Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

Don_Keyballs — GMT

I first started this thread under the tactics, but it has quickly turned to a rule discussion. (Original post below).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641591.page

In summary:

Can a Deathmark unit, with a character with the Veil of Darkness, get to have 2 round of 2+ to wound shooting when arriving via Deep Strike Reserve, and then by Deep Strike via the Veil?

Thoughts?

Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

Happyjew — GMT

Maybe?

If they have to Deep Strike, then yes.

If they have to arrive from Deep Strike Reserves, then you get into a 20 page back and forth on whether or not a unit that employs a special deep strike ability (such as VoD, GoI, or whatever it's called when you jump out of a stormraven) requires you to go into Deep Strike Reserves or not.

Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

blaktoof — GMT

Only if the unit suffers a mishap and goes into ongoing reserves.

otherwise they are arriving by deep strike, but they are not arriving from reserves when using veil.

Arriving from reserves by deep striking = arriving from deep strike reserves.

the veil does not place them in reserves, nor does it state they arrive from reserves when using it. Obviously they are arriving by deepstrike, but from the table as they are "immediately placed.."- and the table is not reserves.

Re:Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

Ghaz — GMT

Hunters from Hyperspace: During the player turn in which this unit arrives from Deep Strike Reserve, all shooting attacks made by the Deathmarks in this unit will wound on To Wound rolls of 2+, regardless of the victim’s Toughness.

I agree that the Hunters from Hyperspace rule is not activated by use of the Veil of Darkness, so no wounding on a 2+.

Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

Don_Keyballs — GMT

blaktoof wrote:
Obviously they are arriving by deepstrike, but from the table as they are "immediately placed.."- and the table is not reserves.

When reading the definition from the Veil, it states that the unit is removed from the table, but then 'immediately placed'. So it is a bit of a stretch, but it does clearly state removed from table.

And that makes me reference the flyers section of the BRB. If a flyer zooms off the table, it is placed back into reserve. To me, that states that leaving the table indicates being placed in reserve.

It is a bit of a stretch, but still technically as written.

Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

Ghaz — GMT

No, it's not 'technically as written'. Making a stop in Deep Strike Reserve, however brief is not immediately placing the unit using the Deep Strike rules.

Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

jasper76 — GMT

Re:Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

God In Action — GMT

Categorically no.

At no point during the second Deep Strike is the unit in Reserves, nor Ongoing Reserves, since the unit neither has to roll to see if it comes on that turn, nor spends a turn doing nothing off the board.

We all know that 40k rules always require some measure of interpretation (and that is sometimes a consequence of how language works in itself, rather than the rules), but questions like this (as well as the multiple Spyders per Harvest Formation) smack of the worst kind of rules bending for advantage, in an army which is certainly not in need of any further buffs.

Re:Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

Tekron — GMT

Personally I think no, but it is certainly not as clear cut as some people here think, as "deep strike reserves" is one of the ultimate means-what-I-want-it-to-mean terms in the rules.

Can ongoing reserves be put in deep strike reserves? You definitely can if you mishap a gate of infinity, but otherwise nothing is specified about it in the main deep strike rules. Ongoing Reserves is not the same thing as Reserves, so the rules don't address the issue.

Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

jasper76 — GMT

Ongoing Reserves tell you to follow the rules for Reserves. Deep Strike Reserve says you must 'begin the game in Reserves'.

I don't know whether this means that when you are placed into Ongong Reserves off the table, whether or nor you are eligibile for Deep Strike Reserve, since you can only really 'begin the game' in Reserves once.

RAW, I'd say that as long as in the beginnin, you started the game in Reserves, and you have the Deep Strike rule, you can Deepstrike after being placed in Ongoing Reserves. This doesn't make much sense, because what would your original deployment status have to do with being put back into reserves in a later Round, but its how I read the rules. RAI, I have no idea.

(of course none of this applies to the Veil, which never puts you into Reserves to begin with)

Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

BlackTalos — GMT

God In Action wrote:
At no point during the second Deep Strike is the unit in Reserves, nor Ongoing Reserves, since the unit neither has to roll to see if it comes on that turn, nor spends a turn doing nothing off the board.

Happyjew wrote:
If they have to arrive from Deep Strike Reserves, then you get into a 20 page back and forth on whether or not a unit that employs a special deep strike ability (such as VoD, GoI, or whatever it's called when you jump out of a stormraven) requires you to go into Deep Strike Reserves or not.

HappyJew has your answer.

This will lead to a 20 pages debate with diverging opinions, with variations of:
A) Any Unit following the "Deep Strike" rules will temporarily be, and arrive from "Deep Strike Reserves"
B) Any Unit arriving via the method given in the "Deep Strike" rules will not get a free trip to "Deep Strike Reserves".

Here is the last debate:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/631412.page

Necron - Deathmarks with Veil of Darkness - 2 rounds of 2+ to wound??

FratHammer — GMT

Meh, I've allowed it. Necrons aren't scary. Well wraiths are... But the unit in question used to get to use their special+2 till the unit they marked died or the whole game if they never killed it. Now they get it one turn... I'm fine with it.