KurtAngle2 wrote:
Drop point costs by 33% atleast, here's your fixed codex.

From a sad Tyranid Player

 Blacksails wrote:
#1 Doesn't make much sense from a fluff perspective, and also doesn't address the failings of the Imperial Guard book itself. No, allies are not and should not be the answer, and building in a mechanic like that to a core book only dilutes its flavour.

Not a fan, and I don't think it adds anything of value to the book, while also walking a weird and inconsistent fluff line.

#2 Also doesn't make much sense. Tanks operate in their own platoons. It would make much more sense to have a company commander tank, then a series of tank platoons each led by a platoon commander. Plus it doesn't fix any of the actual problems either.

#3 Both doesn't make universally a lot of sense, and is also a problem game wide concerning all vehicles. Leman Russ tanks could use +1HP, but the rest are fine at 3, its just that all vehicles need an overhaul. Personally, the solution is to merge the rules for vehicles and MCs. But that's a topic for a different discussion.

I don't think any of your ideas make the Guard feel more like Guard. To do that, you'd need to re-work some of the units so that they're viable (heavy and special weapon squads, hellhounds, sentinels, abhumans, so on) to encourage greater use of those units, and offer more options to customize the feel of the regiment; mechanized, armoured, siege, light, airborne, and mixed regiments are some of the more common types and the book could support those styles better with some simple 'Force org swaps' or super detachments.

 Yarium wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
#1 Doesn't make much sense from a fluff perspective, and also doesn't address the failings of the Imperial Guard book itself. No, allies are not and should not be the answer, and building in a mechanic like that to a core book only dilutes its flavour.

Not a fan, and I don't think it adds anything of value to the book, while also walking a weird and inconsistent fluff line.

#2 Also doesn't make much sense. Tanks operate in their own platoons. It would make much more sense to have a company commander tank, then a series of tank platoons each led by a platoon commander. Plus it doesn't fix any of the actual problems either.

#3 Both doesn't make universally a lot of sense, and is also a problem game wide concerning all vehicles. Leman Russ tanks could use +1HP, but the rest are fine at 3, its just that all vehicles need an overhaul. Personally, the solution is to merge the rules for vehicles and MCs. But that's a topic for a different discussion.

I don't think any of your ideas make the Guard feel more like Guard. To do that, you'd need to re-work some of the units so that they're viable (heavy and special weapon squads, hellhounds, sentinels, abhumans, so on) to encourage greater use of those units, and offer more options to customize the feel of the regiment; mechanized, armoured, siege, light, airborne, and mixed regiments are some of the more common types and the book could support those styles better with some simple 'Force org swaps' or super detachments.

The Guard have never been my strong suit for fluff, since I don't play them. They've always been a "background" force in my mind - they're fighting the long war, desperately holding the line until reinforcements show up. Or they arrive in such masses once the real Imperial War Machine is in place that their mass is unstoppable. Translating that to the tabletop is very difficult, so I think the fluff can be a little mutable to accommodate the needs of the game. The only way to make the Guard match their fluff is to do as KurtAngle2 suggests and just do a massive points-drop across the army so you get the "there's so many of them!" vibe - but ultimately, I don't think that's very "Guard" like. The Guard can win from overwhelming numbers, yes, but the "forge the narrative" is that they still have to use some wits to make it happen, barking orders and calling in supplies. Outside of defensive engagements, the way the Astra Militarum are written, they'd never launch an offensive or take part in a mission unless it's an Apocalypse game. So, instead, why not zoom in on the action a bit?

I really believe that in an age of allies, having the Astra Militarum be able to issue orders to other forces would be really cool thing to do.

As for the extra hull points, yeah that's mostly just a game-balancing act of increasing effectiveness without increasing points costs. Chimera's are tanks, not just transports like a Rhino. An extra hull point for them would be a minor boost when engaged on their flanks or rear (since it's so vulnerable at AV10), but is a much bigger bonus when you can keep your opponent in your forward AV 12 arc.


Here's a few thoughts on issuing orders:

Give a special rule to models with their rank "Rank-Name (Officer)". Each rank issues orders on a d6 roll, with better officers having a better chance of success. So Senior Officers issue on a 3+ (Creed and other special characters could issue on a 2+), Junior Officers on a 4+, and Sergeants on a 5+. Command range of 12", boosted to 18" with a Vox Caster. Banners improve the command roll by 1. Move the "issue orders" step to the Psychic Phase so that it's easier to remember to do. Here's the revised order list I was thinking of:

1. Come In Command: Target friendly Officer within your command range may issue orders this turn as if it were in this model's position and unit. (Add this model's command area to that officer's command area. This effect is cumulative.)

2. Get Back In The Fight: Target friendly unit within your command range automatically regroups and may act normally this turn. (It may issue orders, cast psychic powers, shoot, and assault as if it hadn't fallen back, gone to ground, or been pinned)

3. Run, Run, Run!: Target friendly unit within your command range must run this turn if able, and may run up to 6" instead of rolling a die.

4. Duck 'n Cover (Senior & Junior Officers only): Target friendly unit within your command range adds +1 to their cover save if they Go to Ground until your next turn. This effect is not cumulative.

5. Fire On My Target (Senior & Junior Officers only): Target friendly within your command range unit gains +1 to its Ballistic Skill until end of turn. This effect is not cumulative.

6. Bring It Down (Senior Officers only): Name a unit. Target friendly unit gains Preferred Enemy against units with that name until end of turn.

7. Flush 'Em Out (Senior Officers only): Cover saves taken against weapons fired by target friendly unit are at -1 until end of turn. This effect is cumulative.

 Blacksails wrote:
As for orders, quite simply put, it doesn't make sense fluff wise for the Guard to be issuing orders to anyone but themselves. Hell, even other regiments are unlikely to listen to one another, let alone a 500 year old Chapter Master or Magos. I don't think its fluffy, and it certainly does nothing to fix the Guard themselves.

As for orders, voxes need to create a network where orders can be given and received anywhere on the battlefield, while those without voxes are only affected by the usual distance restriction. I think if the Ld stat is to have any useful role in the game (its dimishing constantly, like Iniative) then orders should play off the Ld stat, which is fluffy to boot and helps cement a useful role for various Ld buffs that can be bought or taken.

 Yarium wrote:


Agreed that it's not terribly fluff to do so - but then where do Guard fit in on the battlefield as an allied force?

 Blacksails wrote:

 Yarium wrote:


Agreed that it's not terribly fluff to do so - but then where do Guard fit in on the battlefield as an allied force?

You're missing my point entirely.

It doesn't matter how they function as allied force or as a force to bring allies with.

You're putting the cart before the horse. Fix the book as a standalone entity that is externally and internally balanced without outside influence, then consider how allies would affect them. Guard are not, have not, and will not (as best as my psychic powers tell me) be an allied focused army. They are a standalone force that represents the largest and most diverse fighting force in the known galaxy.

I do and don't like using Leadership for this roll. I like it because, yeah, it's use in the game is diminishing again - which is unfortunate. At the same time rolling Leadership tests take a bit longer and more mental energy (not much more mind you) than a single d6 roll.

Of all things I want streamlined, rolling two dice and looking for below a number is so infinitesimally small an extra burden than a single dice that it really doesn't make a difference, and you really might as well use the stat line as much as you can.