Powerfisting wrote:
In addition to this, each psyker has access to a number of powers such that the total warp charge cost is the same as their mastery level. But should powers cost points? theoretically, if psychic powers are balanced against each other and their warp charge cost, purchasing them with points would be redundant.

Wyldhunt wrote:

 Powerfisting wrote:
In addition to this, each psyker has access to a number of powers such that the total warp charge cost is the same as their mastery level. But should powers cost points? theoretically, if psychic powers are balanced against each other and their warp charge cost, purchasing them with points would be redundant.

Not entirely accurate. Assuming you're just taking the the existing list of powers rather than writing up a bunch of new ones, some existing powers are more effective than others. Powers probably *should* have been balanced against each other, but they definitely aren't. Unfortunately, the best way to figure out how much to price something is probably just to eyeball it. When I took a stab at doing something similar wherein the points cost powers were presented as an alternative to randomly generating them, I treated the worst power from each discipline as costing 0 points. Then I compared the other options from there to figure out how much to charge. The way I was handling it, if you pulled all your powers from a single discipline, you also got the primaris for 0 points instead of its normal cost.

Now, your system adds a little extra complication to that with the warp charge limitations. Powers that cost multiple warp charges are essentially eating up your power-slot resource in addition to however many points you select. If you want to keep the WC-based limitation to how many powers a psyker can take, you probably have to factor that into your points cost. For instance, Eldrtich Storm is either a WC3 or 4 power depending on how you cast it. That presents its own complications, but let's focus on the WC3 part for now. My farseer is ML3 and can't be boosted above that. So if I take Eldritch Storm in your system, I am getting absolutely no other powers. It's not a bad power, granted, but I'm spending a lot of points to just get a single trick when you could instead be picking up multiple solid buffs that are easier to cast.

Then there's issues with psykers that start off at low ML. Say you have a Librarian that you want to give Hemorrhage from Biomancy for some reason. Hemorrhage isn't a great power. It's twice as hard to cast as, for instance, Smite, and that means you're also more likely to perils casting it. And then it simply isn't very reliable against a variety of targets. What's more, it's WC2 despite not being a great power. So if I were pricing it with my own system where powers taking extra WC doesn't eat up extra "power slots", I'd probably make that the 0 point power; essentially making it free because it's the worst choice in its discipline. In the system you're proposing, you'd have to pay an extra 25 points just to get the 2nd Mastery Level on your librarian, and then even if the power cost 0 points, you'd have to use up both of your "power slots" on one crummy power that's harder to cast instead of getting, say, Iron Arm and Smite.

So in other words, based largely on my own biases, I'd propose dropping the "warp charges as power slots" angle, and then doing this:
* Psykers may purchase any number of powers regardless of WC up to their ML.
* Price the worst power in a given discipline at either 0 points or cheap (depending on how it compares to other "bottom of the barrel" powers; sometimes the worst power in one discipline is still better than the worst power in other disciplines).
* Using the price of the worst power as a base, eyeball points costs for better powers in the discipline based on how good they are in an ideal situation. Bolded because with purchasable powers, you can generally count on people taking powers with a particularly nasty job in mind. People probably aren't grabbing Endurance for use with tacmarines. Assume that power is about to be slapped on a guard blob or thunderwolf death star or something.
*If all of a psyker's powers are purchased from a single discipline, they get the primaris for free/0 points; Possibly require they purchase powers equal to their ML to benefit from this. So no buying a single 5 point or 0 point power and then unlocking another 0 point power if you're ML 2/3.

And of course, get rid of Invisibility or else rewrite it completely. >:T

Wyldhunt wrote:
Thanks for the compliment!

If you're largely ditching the current powers, you should have a slightly easier time costing the powers against one another and won't have to worry about powers like Hemorrhage that don't mesh well with your design method, so that frees up some options for you.

What exactly do you mean regarding the force multiplier thing? Are you saying that you're worried people will avoid taking, for instance, buff powers in favor of taking blasty powers?

The difference between "Powers = ML" and "Powers = ML+1, but use up slots equal to WC" is pretty small in most cases. At that point, you'd actually be giving ML1 librarians more powers than they currently have, and my Farseer would still end up with only 2 powers instead of three most of the time. In other words, ML+1 doesn't really solve the problem so much as push problems around. If you're rewriting all the powers that are available, just design them with your own restrictions in mind. If you want to have powers eat up extra power slots based on WC, that's fine; just keep that extra resource cost in mind when you design their effects and cost them. A WC2 power in your system either needs to have a discounted points cost due to being harder to cast and taking up more slots, or else it needs to actually be that much more potent of a power.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I had an early draft I had been working on:

Each discipline has 6 powers. 4 basic, 2 advanced.
You get 2 powers per mastery level.
You select your powers at army creation.
For every advanced power you take, you must take 2 basic powers from the same discipline.

Some powers would need to be reworked (Invisibility, Divination, etc). There were some additional thoughts I had considered too:

Abjurations: These are psychic powers that could be cast during the opponent's Psyker phase, based on conditional requirements. From simple spell reflection to subtly messing up a blessing...
Specialist Psykers: Mono-discipline Psykers get +1 to manifestation rolls.
Unbound Psykers: For every 6 they roll when manifesting, they must manifest an additional die for 6 (and these explode too).
Perils of the Warp: For every matching Perils Die beyond the second (6s normally, or any doubles for Daemonology), add -1 to the Perils roll. For example, if you roll 4 6s, roll d6-2 to determine the result. For Daemonology, if you were to roll 3 3s and 3 4s, -2.

Some other ideas, including Psychic Conduits (Psyker A can use Conduit B within 12" as the point of origin for powers), etc. So a Tzeentch Sorcerer could cast through Thrall Wizards, Broodlords could use each other as conduits (an expansion of Brood Telepathy), etc.

Belac Ynnead wrote:
Well if you've never played fantasy I'll give you a little taste. Like in 40k, fantasy magic uses a number of dice. But instead of rolling and looking for a number of "fours" each spell just requires a flat number to go off. Say 6. Or 10. Or 15 for a big powerful spell. Roll the dice, and add them up.

Bringing a higher mastery level wizard doesn't automatically give you more dice. This is important because it means you can't just bring a million psykers and drown your opponent in power dice. Wizard level does matter though, because you get to add your wizard level to the roll. So a mastery level 4 wizard, can cast a "6" spell pretty easily for example.

Also dispelling - all you need to do is roll a higher number than the number they rolled. None of this "it only counts on a six so don't bother even trying" nonsense.

Now, there are problems and criticisms with this system as well - usually that it's too hard to get more power dice so on a bad roll a highly magical army is just hosed for a turn and can't do anything - but I still think it's infinitely better than what we've got right now.