oldzoggy wrote:
A large portion of the FAQ's directly go against RAW, so why gamble on them doing it gain ?
They have nothing to lose from doing so.

I saw that people were asking about ordinance weapons on russes.

locarno24 wrote:

I saw that people were asking about ordinance weapons on russes.

It may also be optimistic memory. The "Lumbering Behemoth" rule - which Leman Russ used to have before the 'heavy' vehicle type became a standard rule - was that you could fire your turret weapon (whatever it was) in addition to any other weapons you were normally allowed to fire.

That got scrubbed at the last version of the guard codex in favour of the general rule 'heavy' - which stops you going at cruising speed, but lets you fire everything on the move. Crucially, it had no allowance for ordnance weapons (there was no 'snap fire' at the time so you just got to fire or not).

A lot of guard players never really noticed they'd had the ability taken away (because GW doesn't very often remove abilities) and to this day some veterans are convinced they can fire their turret and sponsons at full effect unless you get them to read the rules.

Martel732 wrote:
Russes remain expensive doorstops. Big shocker. Unless GW picks up the big turd they crapped all over AV 14, Russes are never going to be any good.

 Blacksails wrote:
Its a race to the bottom.

 Blacksails wrote:

Its a race to the bottom.

 Blacksails wrote:
Its shocking to see a proposed points costs for a basic russ at 120pts. I mean, you're not wrong, far from it, but it raises the question of how low the floor is for points cost. A 120pts basic russ will push one or two variants down too, which means hellhounds need to come fairly dramatically, which will push the chimera cost down, which then means the sentinel needs to come down too. Before we know it, we'll have 15pts sentinels and 55pts for a hellhound.

Its a race to the bottom.

Commissar Benny wrote:
Completely agree. At present almost every single unit in the AM codex needs a drastic points reduction. Leman Russ variants, chimera, sentinels, ogryn, ...you name it all need to be brought down in cost. I'd even argue guardsmen need to be brought down to 3 or 4 points a model. Currently they only serve as a tax on the army. Outside of conscript/priest tarpits, they are garbage. Sure sometimes you can get lucky with FRSRF but with how bloated the game has become with 3+ armor, invul saves, FNP etc, hundreds of lasgun hits often results in little to no wounds.

Orthon wrote:
Points are have lost a lot of their meaning in 7th.

You can get 12 rhinos at 0 points per model in a battle company. 14 drop pods for free if you also take dreadnoughts with drop pods. So we are talking 420-490 points in free vehicles.

War convocation similarly gives hundreds of free points of upgrades. I read somewhere once that it was like 700 points.

Khrone Daemonkin can summon multiple 250 point blood thirsters among other units.

Just Daemonology can summon hundreds of points.

I believe Orks, Tau, Tyranids, and Chaos Space Marines (Crimson Slaughter I think) have formations where units come back once destroyed.

Guard are supposed to be points efficient and win a battle of attrition, but they can't against the free points spam.

Solution:

-Mechanized decurion: 6 free chimeras without upgrades for each troop slot = 390 points
-Infantry decurion: 1 free infantry platoon without upgrades = 655 points
-Tank decurion: 1 free tank platoon staring as eradicators without upgrades = 360 points
-Artillery decurion: 1 free battery of basilisks = 375 points
-Air decurion: 1 free platoon of valkyries = 375 points


That is how much of a point disadvantage guard are at against the free points 7th edition stuff, you could get an entire platoon for free with those points.