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				<title>[1850] - Different flavours of Space Marines - Three lists with different theme, which is better? </title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Hi Dakkanuts, I have a incoming local tournament, 1850pts, semi - ITC mission and drafted <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> applied, Opponent might be mainly other Marines, Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Imperial Knights, and might be Orks <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0"> under some very very skillful Warlord <img src="/s/i/a/5d13fa41280d6fdef786d41bc175d3f6.gif" border="0">.  I come up with 3 different lists and feels not sure which one is the best, so seeking ideas from everybody here:<br /> <br /> 1st one: <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(265);'>FnP</span> steel rain<br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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<br /> <u>Iron Hand</u><br /> <b>Fist of Medusa Strike Force</b><br />     <br />     <b>Battle Demi Company</b> (1170pts)<br />         Chapter Master (255pts)<br />            <i>Bike, Artificer Armor, Gorgon's Chain, Powerfist, Lightning Claw</i><br />         Command Squad (220pts)<br />             <i>Bike, Apothercary, 4 grav guns, 2 storm sheild</i><br />         Tactical Squad (130pts)<br />              <i>Melta, combi melta, melta bomb, Droppod</i><br />         Tactical Squad (125pts)<br />              <i>Melta, combi melta, melta bomb, Droppod</i><br />         Tactical Squad (125pts)<br />              <i>Flamer, combi flamer, melta bomb, Droppod</i><br />         Land Speeder (70pts)<br />              <i>Typhoon Missile Launcher</i><br />         Devastator Squad (245pts)<br />              <i>4 Grav Cannons, Droppod</i><br /> <br />      <b>Honored Ancient</b><br />          Venerable Dreadnought (165pts)<br />              <i>Multi Melta, Powerfist w Heavy Flamer, Droppod</i><br /> <br />      <b>Librarius Conclave</b> (340pts)<br />           Librarian (125pts)<br />              <i>ML2, bike, mind forge stave</i><br />          Librarian (125pts)<br />              <i>ML2, Terminator Armor, Storm Shield</i><br />          Librarian (90pts)<br />              <i>ML2</i><br /> <br />       <b>Strike Force Command</b><br />           Terminator Captain (175pts)<br />              <i>Cataphractii Terminator Armor, Sheild Eternal</i><br /> 
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</div><br /> (Note: Droppod centric army was my long-time play style because I am a "alpha strike believer", and this is maybe the  "averagely" most tough of the 3 list, due to that each non vehicle model within range of character is bascally equivent to Necron Immortals in the aspect defensive stats. But I think that most Tau / Eldar list just don't care, as long as they survive the first impact (especially likely for Tau, with their intense interceptor shots), they have tons of weapons that can mitigate my <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(265);'>FnP</span>, on a bright side, this list has the most Obsec units among the three, so hope that my men can survive long enough to gather up the mission points).<br /> <br /> 2nd one: Psychic Death Star<br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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<br /> <u>Grey Knight</u><br /> <b>Nemesis Strike Force</b> (820pts)<br />         <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span> Librarian (160pts)<br />            <i>Domina Liber Daemonica, ML3</i><br />         <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span> Terminators (195pts)<br />              <i>Psycannon, Nemesis Daemon Hammer</i><br />         Nemesis Dreadknight (220pts)<br />              <i>Personal Teleporta, Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incenirator</i><br />         Kaldor Draigo  (245pts)<br /> <br /> <u>Ultramarine</u><br />      <b>Librarius Conclave</b> (400pts)<br />          Tigirius (165pts)<br />          Librarian (125pts)<br />              <i>ML2, Terminator Armor, Storm Shield</i><br />          Librarian (110pts)<br />              <i>ML2, Primarch's Wrath</i><br /> <br /> <u>Ultramarine</u> (630pts)<br />       <b><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(683);'>CAD</span></b><br />           <b><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span></b><br />             Sargent Telion (50pts)<br />              <br />       <b>Troops</b><br />              Tactical Squad (135pts)<br />              <i>Melta, combi melta, Droppod w Locator Beacon</i> <br />              Scout Squad (95pts)<br />              <i>Bolters, Land Speeder Storm w Heavy Flamer</i> <br /> <br />       <b>Fast Attack</b><br />              Scout Bikers (100pts)<br />              <i>5 men, Locator Beacon</i> <br /> <br />       <b>Heavy Support</b><br />              Centurion Devastator Squad (250pts)<br />              <i>3 Grav Cannons, omniscope</i> <br /> 
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</div><br /> (Note:  I play tested this list twice and find that it is very very "Rock-Paper-Scissors". 1st test is fighting against a decent Eldar army (with 3 jetbike Farseers 6 units of Scatter Bikers, WK, Fire Prisms, and Crimson Death formation) and bascially won the game with little challenge; the second game against a full Battle Company Lion's Blade Detachment, and got crashed in terms mission points despite able to almost delete two units a turn, however this result is expected before the game started)<br /> <br /> <br /> 3rd list: Mounted Centric army<br /> <div style="margin-top:5px; margin-bottom:10px;">
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<br /> <u>Space Wolves</u><br /> <b>Deathpack</b> (610pts)<br />         Wolf Lord (220pts)<br />            <i>Wolf Mount, Runic Armor, Powerfist, Wolf Claw</i><br />         Thunderwolf Cavalry (195pts)<br />              <i>3 men, 3 storm shield, 1 Thurnder Hammer</i><br />         Grey Hunters (195pts)<br />              <i>10men, 2 meltas, Droppod</i><br />         <br /> <u>White Scar</u><br />      <b>Librarius Conclave</b> (370pts)<br />          Librarian (130pts)<br />              <i>ML2, bike, Hunter's Eye</i><br />          Librarian (130pts)<br />              <i>ML2, bike, Mantle of the Stormseer</i><br />          Librarian (110pts)<br />              <i>ML2, bike</i><br /> <br /> <u>White Scar</u> (870pts)<br />       <b><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(683);'>CAD</span></b><br />           <b><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span></b><br />               Chapter Master (250pts)<br />               <i>Bike, Artificer Armor, Shield Eternal, Thurnder Hammer</i><br />         <br />           <b>Elite</b><br />               Command Squad (220pts)<br />               <i>Bike, Apothercary, 4 grav guns, 2 storm sheild</i><br /> <br />       <b>Troops</b> (300pts)<br />              Bike Squad (150pts)<br />              <i>2 grav guns, combi grav, melta bomb, 5men</i> <br />              Bike Squad (150pts)<br />              <i>2 grav guns, combi grav, melta bomb, 5men</i><br /> <br />       <b>Fast Attack</b><br />              Attack Bike (50pts)<br />              <i>Multi Melta</i> <br />              Attack Bike (50pts)<br />              <i>Multi Melta</i> <br /> 
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</div><br /> (Note: I have long-time used small units of bikers (i.e. <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(746);'>CM</span> smash and his command squad) in game, but a mounted centric list is quite new for me.  This list sounds like the most mobile one of the three, maybe good for the Maelstorm type mission points.  Also pack good firepower with the surely ignore cover grav-guns. On the other hand, am I lack of melta weaponary to tackle Imperial Knight armies? I only can fit a total of four pieces of meltas in three units, also, I doubt wether 5 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(126);'>TL</span> bolters with ignore cover good enough to tackle hordes (example target: Genestealer Cult "First Cursed" Formation, or <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(69);'>IG</span> infantry platoon)?..... <img src="/s/i/a/053f30f6773034eb25223d86f0e00d8d.gif" border="0"> )<br /> <br /> Any and all comments are welcome and highly apperciated with thanks <img src="/s/i/a/5d13fa41280d6fdef786d41bc175d3f6.gif" border="0">, for both about choosing the theme and the detail of the list.  Looking forward to the words from you guys, cheers <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0">  <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0">  <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0"> <br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 8 Nov 2016 19:49:20]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Neophyte2012]]></author>
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				<title>[1850] - Different flavours of Space Marines - Three lists with different theme, which is better? </title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Damn homie. Those are some hard hitting lists. But 100% appropriate for tournament time.<br /> <br /> They are all super Killy but I have to go list 3 unless you aren't comfortable playing it. It's super fast with better potential for turn 1 charge and has plenty of warp charge. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 8 Nov 2016 20:52:49]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Epartalis]]></author>
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				<title>[1850] - Different flavours of Space Marines - Three lists with different theme, which is better? </title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/707756/9008327.page"><b>Epartalis wrote:</b></a><br/>Damn homie. Those are some hard hitting lists. But 100% appropriate for tournament time.<br /> <br /> They are all super Killy but I have to go list 3 unless you aren't comfortable playing it. It's super fast with better potential for turn 1 charge and has plenty of warp charge. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Thank you for your opinion. <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0"> <br /> Yea, the cavalry list was first developed base on the idea of Invisibility supported <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(504);'>TWC</span> launching a first turn charge, then I think of backing them up with shooty cavalry which role is best played by White Scar Grav bikers. But what I concern is the relative low model counts (a total of 25 mounted models, 10 footslogers), and concern of Super Heavy Walkers, cause my Grav weapons on bikers don't have Grav <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(243);'>amp</span>. So I might have headache when facing IK armies, since if I charge one with Invisibility <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(504);'>TWC</span> unit, my Wolf Lord and the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(224);'>TH</span> guy might be able to torn it down with a total 11 S10 AP2 attacks on the charge, But the explosion might just 6s me out.<br /> <br /> Anyone have any more opinions? <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0"> Thanks a lot <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0"> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 9 Nov 2016 13:47:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Neophyte2012]]></author>
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				<title>[1850] - Different flavours of Space Marines - Three lists with different theme, which is better? </title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I love the third option (I'm a furry) and was thinking if you would not be better with Wyrdstorm Brotherhood instead of Lib Conclave? Make 3 of them, all ML2 on bikes. You get the adamantium will on all of them for free from Runic Weapons. Buy all of them a hood for 3 bubbles of adamantium and give one Durfast Helm for ingore cover. You get nice witchfire with assoult <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(4);'>4d6</span> (2 basic + 2 from all priests above caster) harnessed at 3+ with extra hits on 6 to hit. True horde killer. You do lose White scars tactics though,]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 9 Nov 2016 16:29:35]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Szard]]></author>
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				<title>[1850] - Different flavours of Space Marines - Three lists with different theme, which is better? </title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><a href="/dakkaforum/posts/preList/707756/9010188.page"><b>Szard wrote:</b></a><br/>I love the third option (I'm a furry) and was thinking if you would not be better with Wyrdstorm Brotherhood instead of Lib Conclave? Make 3 of them, all ML2 on bikes. You get the adamantium will on all of them for free from Runic Weapons. Buy all of them a hood for 3 bubbles of adamantium and give one Durfast Helm for ingore cover. You get nice witchfire with assoult <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(4);'>4d6</span> (2 basic + 2 from all priests above caster) harnessed at 3+ with extra hits on 6 to hit. True horde killer. You do lose White scars tactics though,</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Thanks for the suggestion <img src="/s/i/a/5d13fa41280d6fdef786d41bc175d3f6.gif" border="0">  The "lightning" psychic power is a good solution to the horde problem and maybe able to get a few lucky wounds on the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(93);'>MCs</span> or lucky glancing of vehicles. I just feel the downside is the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(124);'>SW</span> psykers don't access to Telepathy is a pain...... <img src="/s/i/a/053f30f6773034eb25223d86f0e00d8d.gif" border="0"> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 10 Nov 2016 13:41:21]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Neophyte2012]]></author>
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				<title>[1850] - Different flavours of Space Marines - Three lists with different theme, which is better? </title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If there was a way to get a Second <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(514);'>DK</span> in to list 2, I'd do that. Otherwise list 3 is the best]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:28:41]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Galef]]></author>
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				<title>[1850] - Different flavours of Space Marines - Three lists with different theme, which is better? </title>
				<description><![CDATA[ True that lack of Telepathy hurts a bit but if you give one of them Tempestas you can roll some good powers and get another cast of that lightning from primaris.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 10 Nov 2016 15:14:46]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Szard]]></author>
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