Latest posts for the thread "Can you please help me organise & correlate my models in to a legal/ logical force?"

Can you please help me organise & correlate my models in to a legal/ logical force?

SaltySeaDog — GMT

I'm new to the game (casual/ fun player only) and have opted to collect Imperial Fists. This is purely because I like power armoured models, the colour yellow, and codex SM chapters seem like the best force for a new player to lose their virginity with.

I have bought, borrowed & stolen (so far) the 'Start Collecting' box set, another 10 man squad of tactical marines, and two rhino APCs. A drop pod is on the way through the post as we speak. I'm not sure if it's going to be of any use but I got it cheap!

So is what I have so far enough to play some baby games? What would you suggest as the logical weapon choices for my dread & tac squads, and what should I buy next? I feel my terminator captain will soon get lonely?

Ideally I want a fieldable force of max 1750pts. A bread-and-butter force that sticks to the IF fluff of being able to shoot the sh*t of enemies with withering heavy fire, but also able to hold their own if the bad guys decide to get up close & personal.

Am I correct in thinking Devastators are the right way to go? What about assault terminators to keep my captain company & lend some much needed hand-to-hand strength? Or a sternguard squad with jump packs to leap about the tabletop & wreak havoc?

As you can tell I'm all over the place (and I admit to asking similar questions previously)! How do I expand on my existing force in a natural way? I want to maintain the IF 'gunline' fluff but not leave myself open to close combat attacks.

A use for the drop pod would also be welcome!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
...I hasten to add I haven't really stolen anything. It's just an expression.

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that I don't want to go buying squads willy-nilly, thinking they'll be worthwhile additions to my army, but actually for there to be no correlation between the different units.

Can you please help me organise & correlate my models in to a legal/ logical force?

AnomanderRake — GMT

You'll have your mandatory CAD requirements (a Captain as your HQ, two Tactical squads in Rhinos as Troops), an extra Elites choice (the Dreadnaught), and a way to make the Dreadnaught relevant to games (the Drop Pod) out of that; it's probably in the neighborhood of 750pts depending on how you kit your models.

If you're playing Imperial Fists you'll probably want Sternguard and Devastators to expand forwards. Vanguard Veterans as a melee troubleshooter/interception unit are much better at it than Assault Terminators; the fluff may present hammernators as an Imperial Fist specialty but never forget that they're one of only four Legions (RG, Night Lords, and Word Bearers are the others) that doesn't actually have a unique Terminator unit in 30k.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SaltySeaDog wrote:
...I guess what I'm trying to convey is that I don't want to go buying squads willy-nilly, thinking they'll be worthwhile additions to my army, but actually for there to be no correlation between the different units.

There isn't a lot of synergy in 40k and the internal balance in the SM book is pretty good; the only things you actually really, really don't want to build are LR-transported Terminators (unless you're playing 2,500pts+ games routinely) and triple-lascannon Predator squadrons (unless you're playing under a homebrew ruleset that makes them about fifty points cheaper and you can't find any Vendettas to ally in instead). Most things are worthwhile additions to your army.

Instead of synergy/correlation consider the problem of redundancy, if you have only one unit that does a thing and a random orbital bombardment falls on it you're screwed. Try and make sure you've got multiple ways to kill vehicles, hit forward objectives, hold backfield objectives, bog down melee units, catch enemy heavy weapons, etc.

Can you please help me organise & correlate my models in to a legal/ logical force?

aleis — GMT

To answer some of your questions ditectly.

Yes, you have enough points to play small games.

Best thing for the Dread multimelta + CCW with heavy flamer. Put in a drop pod. Shoot dreads can be effective if you want a turret. But mostly stick with the cheap basic.

Always field drop pods in odd numbers.

A lone terminator not so useful. Either leave him at home or buy a squad. Personally I prefer normal captians, in artificiar armor with a squad.

Devistators are nice but not required.
What should you buy next is no easy answer, terminators, devistators, stern guard, assault marines, all good options

Can you please help me organise & correlate my models in to a legal/ logical force?

The_Random_Ninja — GMT

SaltySeaDog wrote:
I'm new to the game (casual/ fun player only) and have opted to collect Imperial Fists. This is purely because I like power armoured models, the colour yellow, and codex SM chapters seem like the best force for a new player to lose their virginity with.

I have bought, borrowed & stolen (so far) the 'Start Collecting' box set, another 10 man squad of tactical marines, and two rhino APCs. A drop pod is on the way through the post as we speak. I'm not sure if it's going to be of any use but I got it cheap!

So is what I have so far enough to play some baby games? What would you suggest as the logical weapon choices for my dread & tac squads, and what should I buy next? I feel my terminator captain will soon get lonely?

Ideally I want a fieldable force of max 1750pts. A bread-and-butter force that sticks to the IF fluff of being able to shoot the sh*t of enemies with withering heavy fire, but also able to hold their own if the bad guys decide to get up close & personal.

Am I correct in thinking Devastators are the right way to go? What about assault terminators to keep my captain company & lend some much needed hand-to-hand strength? Or a sternguard squad with jump packs to leap about the tabletop & wreak havoc?

As you can tell I'm all over the place (and I admit to asking similar questions previously)! How do I expand on my existing force in a natural way? I want to maintain the IF 'gunline' fluff but not leave myself open to close combat attacks.

A use for the drop pod would also be welcome!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
...I hasten to add I haven't really stolen anything. It's just an expression.

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that I don't want to go buying squads willy-nilly, thinking they'll be worthwhile additions to my army, but actually for there to be no correlation between the different units.

You definitely have enough to play some small games and fulfill the requirements for a CAD and that's a good start for any player.

The users that have posted above me spell it out well on what your should equip them and how you should use the dread. For the Tacs it depends on how many marines your putting in each squad and what you want to do with that squad, if your playing IF a Heavy Bolter and Plasma gun in a 10 man Tac squad is a pretty good all around unit, the Str 7 AP2 can make the bigger stuff watch where they step and the HB can make short work of and hordes and you can combat squad them. But if your really getting beat down by MCs or vehicles a MM/MG might be best or if you come up against MEQs a plasma or Lascannon might be useful, it all comes down to personal preference and what suits your army so experiment.

The Terminator captain isn't the best option IMO unless your pairing him with Devs in a Drop Pod, it would be best to kit him out with Artificer armor and give him a squad to attach to, in your case the room in the rhinos are full so I would suggest a command squad or an assault squad.

Devs are a good idea especially since you want to play shooty, however, I would implore you to consider Centurion Devs depending on how you want to play. If your playing a gun-line where you slowly advance with a bubble of overwhelming firepower I would go for the Centurions because they can dish out some serious firepower but lack mobility and can get left in the dust by more mobile armies. But since your playing a shooty army it might fit the bill.

And lastly what you should buy next... I just recently had this problem, as I am also a pretty new player, and after playing a lot of games with a lot of random units I can say one of the strong suits of space marines is the fact that no matter what unit you get its not going to be horrible (with some exceptions) they are 4 stat across the board so no matter how you play them (shooty or stabby) your going to do at least alright and they have a 3+ save which is stupidly good for the points. But none of this is really answering the question, what I did was look in the codex and online and found what some basic formations were and I built off of those. I would look at a Battle Demi-Company as a start, both in the fluff and on the table top its balanced, flexible and leaves room for customization and improvement because you can add auxiliaries and change the types of heavy support and fast attacks you can use. Want to wreak havoc from the skies? give the formation an Assault squad on Jet packs. Need a tough nut to crack that can tear through your opponents line? Bring a Dread. from there any force you want to make is pretty much open to you because most all space marine armies consist of the basic units listed in a Demi-Company.

Hopes this helps.

Re:Can you please help me organise & correlate my models in to a legal/ logical force?

Nevelon — GMT

I’m going to suggest you work towards a hybrid-drop gladius list, with a 1st co. aux. Not the most competitive, but a fun TAC list. And should be able to hold it’s own against most “normal” lists. (which is a very variable term, so YMMV, take with some salt, etc). Fully tricked out, it might be closer to a 2k list. You could also go with the sternhammer TF, which has a different selection of aux pics, some of them are low cost which would be good for smaller games.

But your core is going to be a battle demi co. And if you want a marine army that feels like one, don’t skimp here.

3 full tac squads. In transports. If you have 2 rhinos, that’s a great start. Depending on the rest of your list, you might need to have one ride in a pod to give you an odd number. If not, it’s the box for them.

What to give tac squads is a very long topic. But as I’m the one typing this, you get to listen to my fluffy, retro, Ultramarine opinion. Mwahaha. 10 men, combi to match the squad’s special on the sarge (or nothing, to save points) and take your darn heavy! We are not some codex-rejecting savages here. But take one that complements the squad. For a IF army, I’d probably go something like this:

10 man tac squad, MM/M, c-melta sarge (this is the one that would go in the pod if needed)
10 man tac squad, HB/F, c-flamer or just basic sarge (for thinning out hordes)
10 man tac squad, GC/G, c-grav sarge (big game/ hard infantry killers. Could use plasma instead of the normal grav guns, but if you don’t have points for the grav cannon, replace with a HB)

You will note that there are no MLs there. I do enjoy a ML/F squad, off of pure tradition and nostalgia. But I’d not recommend it for others. As we already need to pick up a dev box to get the toys for the tacs, I’m going to suggest going with a stock dev squad, rather then dev cents. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but this is to keep the cost down.

While I would prefer a 4xLC squad, that would require buying another box. If you can swap bits, do it. If not:

5 man dev squad, 2xLC, 2xML.

Now the FA pick is the one I change up most often. For one, if you need a place to stick your HQ, he goes here. So assault marines or bike squads work well. AMs normally get a vet sarge with a toy 2xF, and jump packs. Bikes are the best place for grav, but fast melta still has a place. If you just want a budget option to fill the slot, and your HQ is going elsewhere, I love speeders. A pair of TML/HB speeders is a decent way to get some more firepower into your list. Or you could get more aggressive with a 2xMM suicide speeder. This is a very subjective place, so go with your heart.

You’ve got your TDA captain, so we’ll use him for now. But you should look into other options. As you grow, I’dd look at what you went with for the FA pick. If you went bikes, make a bike captain. If you chose assault marines, get a jump chaplain. If you went with the speeders, there is no easy answer.

You get a dread in the SC box, so lets use him. Although with them being an optional selection in the demi co, you can add/remove him to help trim points. With them being 4A these days, I’m loath to take the fist off them. If you are podding him, a MM or the assault cannon are your best option, and probably the HF under the fist. If you are footslogging him up to support the troops, the TLLC gives him some range, but the AsC still works. HF is more optional here. The Ven Dread kit doesn’t come with a MM (although they are not hard to kit-bash), so I’d suggest the AsC. The pegs on the arms should be snug enough that you can swap weapons without magnets or glue, so keep that in mind when building him. You can also count him as a regular or venerable dreadnought, to help trim points.

Ven Dread, AsC, fist w/HF, pod

That’s your battle demi-co. It should run as a 1k-1,250 list all by itself. With what you already own, you will need to add 10 more tacticals, another transport, a dev box, and whatever FA pick you went with.

Now for the Aux pick. For lower point games you can take something like a 10th co TF, the AA, or suppression force in a gladius. If you go sternhammer, all you need is another dev squad or a TFC. But we want a place for your TDA captain to live, and veterans are awesome. So let’s go big with the 1st co TF.

Now tactical terminators get a lot of flack, and it’s justifiable. They are overpriced, and far more vulnerable then they should be if you listen to the fluff. But I’m going to suggest them anyway. Be careful with them, and they might surprise you (and your opponent)

5 man tactical terminators, assault cannon, 1 chainfist. (some people like the CML, I’m an AsC guy)

Now that we have a bodyguard for the captain, let’s get something with some actual power on the table. Sternguard. One of the better units in the codex, and even better with bolter drill. I like them bare-bones, with just a pair of HFs. Other people like combi spam. It is a good place to get some more melta to the table. If you do go c-melta, take 4-5. That will ensure a vehicle kill. You don’t want to waste your time shooting a tank, just to fail to bring it down. You can combat squad out of the pod and melta one things and flame another if you mix the two. But that gets a little pricy. If you decide not to field the TDA captain and his bodyguard, replaceing them with another sternguard squad would be a good idea.

10 man sternguard in a pod. (gear depending on points)

Now if you want a CC option, there is no reason not to take one. Vanguard Vets are pretty choppy. Now they are just 3+ guys, so be careful how much fire you leave them exposed to. They can advance behind the rhinos, keeping out of LOS until time to jump out and strike. What to give them for gear depends a lot on how many points you have to spare. I’d suggest a mix of swords and axes, probably a couple of SS to keep the plasma off. While I’m not normally a big fan of them, give one a powerfist. You are a son of Dorn afterall; feels wrong not to have at least one powerfists in an IF army.

5 man vanguard vets, JP, assorted toys.

So your buy list for this is: one box of terminators (you might be able to get these for a steal, as they are frequently bundled, and considered sub-par) one box of VVs. 1-2 boxes of sternguard and a pod. I’d suggest just getting one box, and then another box of tacticals and spreading the cool vet bits around. Gives you more bodies for less bucks.