<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10717995.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10717995.page GMT Re:Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds
Some Math against shoting vs a Space Marines Captain equivalent (no -1 to hit, T4, 3+/4++):

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine (3shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 1.041 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim (2shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 0.694 Unsaved wounds


>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine + RR to hit (3shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 1.215 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim + RR to hit (2shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 0.810 Unsaved wounds

So statistically both do the same amount of MW but firing the 3 guys does more standar wounds under the RG doctrine]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10720356.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10720356.page GMT Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10721141.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10721141.page GMT Re:Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds
Babar_babar wrote:
Hi,

Some Math against shoting vs a Space Marines Captain equivalent (no -1 to hit, T4, 3+/4++):

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine (3shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 1.041 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim (2shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 0.694 Unsaved wounds


>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine + RR to hit (3shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 1.215 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim + RR to hit (2shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 0.810 Unsaved wounds

So statistically both do the same amount of MW but firing the 3 guys does more standar wounds under the RG doctrine


5 scouts 5 shots =1.1 MW and 0.74 unsaved wounds

5 scouts with RR to hit= 1.48 MW and 0.98 unsaved wounds

65 points of scouts really out damages 72 points of eliminators in that scenario.

Quantity has it's own quality.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10721361.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10721361.page GMT Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722085.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722085.page GMT Re:Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds
 schadenfreude wrote:
Babar_babar wrote:
Hi,

Some Math against shoting vs a Space Marines Captain equivalent (no -1 to hit, T4, 3+/4++):

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine (3shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 1.041 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim (2shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 0.694 Unsaved wounds


>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine + RR to hit (3shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 1.215 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim + RR to hit (2shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 0.810 Unsaved wounds

So statistically both do the same amount of MW but firing the 3 guys does more standar wounds under the RG doctrine


5 scouts 5 shots =1.1 MW and 0.74 unsaved wounds

5 scouts with RR to hit= 1.48 MW and 0.98 unsaved wounds

65 points of scouts really out damages 72 points of eliminators in that scenario.

Quantity has it's own quality.



They don't out-damage Eliminators, the quoted math is incorrect.

RG eliminators; 3 shots hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's in the tactical doctrine, causing mortal wounds on 5's. 2.92 wounds after saves.

[edit, added correct scouts damage]
RG scouts; 5 shots hitting on 2's, wounding on 3's in the tactical doctrine, causing mortal wounds on 5's. 2.31 wounds after saves.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722301.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722301.page GMT Re:Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds
Mchagen wrote:
 schadenfreude wrote:
Babar_babar wrote:
Hi,

Some Math against shoting vs a Space Marines Captain equivalent (no -1 to hit, T4, 3+/4++):

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine (3shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 1.041 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim (2shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 0.694 Unsaved wounds


>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine + RR to hit (3shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 1.215 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim + RR to hit (2shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 0.810 Unsaved wounds

So statistically both do the same amount of MW but firing the 3 guys does more standar wounds under the RG doctrine


5 scouts 5 shots =1.1 MW and 0.74 unsaved wounds

5 scouts with RR to hit= 1.48 MW and 0.98 unsaved wounds

65 points of scouts really out damages 72 points of eliminators in that scenario.

Quantity has it's own quality.



They don't out-damage Eliminators, the quoted math is incorrect.

RG eliminators; 3 shots hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's in the tactical doctrine, causing mortal wounds on 5's. 2.92 wounds after saves.

[edit, added correct scouts damage]
RG scouts; 5 shots hitting on 2's, wounding on 3's in the tactical doctrine, causing mortal wounds on 5's. 2.31 wounds after saves.


Let's simply the math even more.

The hits are the same they both likely hit on a 2+ rerolling 1s.
The mortal wounds are the same 1/3 of all hits.
The scouts therefore do 5 mortals for every 3 caused by the eliminators

Agaisnt a T4 target with a 3+ save scout hits average 2/3* 1/3= 2/9th of a wound*5= 1&1/9 unsaved per 5 hits

Mortis rounds 5/6*1/2=5/12 unsaved per hit×2 for de damage=10/12×3 eliminators=30/12= 2.5 unsaved wounds.

Mortis total is 3.5 per 3 hits v scouts 2 & 7/9.

A storm shield would knock the mortis down to 30/18 +1 mortal for a total of 2&2/3 just under the scouts.

Mortis does more standard wounds while scouts put out a lot more mortals. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722390.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722390.page GMT Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722576.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722576.page GMT Re:Raven guard snipers and mortal wounds
 schadenfreude wrote:
Spoiler:
Mchagen wrote:
 schadenfreude wrote:
Babar_babar wrote:
Hi,

Some Math against shoting vs a Space Marines Captain equivalent (no -1 to hit, T4, 3+/4++):

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine (3shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 1.041 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim (2shots): 0.694 Mortal wounds & 0.694 Unsaved wounds


>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine + RR to hit (3shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 1.215 Unsaved wounds

>RG Eliminators under Special Doctrine & Guided aim + RR to hit (2shots): 0.810 Mortal wounds & 0.810 Unsaved wounds

So statistically both do the same amount of MW but firing the 3 guys does more standar wounds under the RG doctrine


5 scouts 5 shots =1.1 MW and 0.74 unsaved wounds

5 scouts with RR to hit= 1.48 MW and 0.98 unsaved wounds

65 points of scouts really out damages 72 points of eliminators in that scenario.

Quantity has it's own quality.



They don't out-damage Eliminators, the quoted math is incorrect.

RG eliminators; 3 shots hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's in the tactical doctrine, causing mortal wounds on 5's. 2.92 wounds after saves.

[edit, added correct scouts damage]
RG scouts; 5 shots hitting on 2's, wounding on 3's in the tactical doctrine, causing mortal wounds on 5's. 2.31 wounds after saves.


Let's simply the math even more.

The hits are the same they both likely hit on a 2+ rerolling 1s.
The mortal wounds are the same 1/3 of all hits.
The scouts therefore do 5 mortals for every 3 caused by the eliminators

Agaisnt a T4 target with a 3+ save scout hits average 2/3* 1/3= 2/9th of a wound*5= 1&1/9 unsaved per 5 hits

Mortis rounds 5/6*1/2=5/12 unsaved per hit×2 for de damage=10/12×3 eliminators=30/12= 2.5 unsaved wounds.

Mortis total is 3.5 per 3 hits v scouts 2 & 7/9.

A storm shield would knock the mortis down to 30/18 +1 mortal for a total of 2&2/3 just under the scouts.

Mortis does more standard wounds while scouts put out a lot more mortals.

A lot more mortal wounds is hyperbole, a scout squad of 5 does .56 more mortal wounds and .65 with re-roll 1's than 3 eliminators. Scouts are better against 3+ (or 2+ dark eldar?) invulnerable saves. Eliminators are better against a wider range of targets due to better AP and D3 damage.

Using costs of 65 for scouts vs 72 for eliminators is a bit inaccurate too because if comparing similar durability (camo cloaks), scouts become more expensive for the squad and per wound.

Scouts are used in top lists more often because they're cheap battalion filler that also function as a screen.

To the answer of the OP question. Due to hitting on 2's and wounding on 2's with the special Raven Guard doctrine, they don't benefit more from guided aim than they do from getting an extra shot, even with mortal wounds on 4+. It's better to shoot with all 3.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722973.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/785502/10722973.page GMT