Yvek wrote:
The mechanvore could damage both the universe and the warp??

 Yvek wrote:
that fight mustve been brutal,i bet that the men of iron couldve wiped some xenos,because wow. that sounds great

beast_gts wrote:

 Yvek wrote:
The mechanvore could damage both the universe and the warp??

Yep, and the Ark Mechanicus Speranza (Forge of Mars) had guns that could fire black holes and rewind time to get a better hit.

 Yvek wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Yvek wrote:
The mechanvore could damage both the universe and the warp??

Yep, and the Ark Mechanicus Speranza (Forge of Mars) had guns that could fire black holes and rewind time to get a better hit.

that fight mustve been brutal,i bet that the men of iron couldve wiped some xenos,because wow. that sounds great

 Hellebore wrote:
The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.

They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.

Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.

You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.


There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.

There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.

I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.

IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.

Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.

 Yvek wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.

They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.

Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.

You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.


There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.

There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.

I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.

IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.

Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.

that makes sense. do you remember anything about these automatas? maybe their name

 Hellebore wrote:

 Yvek wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.

They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.

Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.

You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.


There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.

There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.

I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.

IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.

Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.

that makes sense. do you remember anything about these automatas? maybe their name

I've never seen an eldar name for them. But they've been mentioned in fluff for decades as the main reason the eldar empire became decadent. With psychic engines that instantly 3d print anything your mind can conceive of, the eldar had nothing to do. Every aspect of their life was taken care of.

They had been around since 60 million years ago and eventually came to dominate a large percentage of the galaxy. There are between 100 and 400 billion stars in our galaxy. the imperium currently controls 1 million+ worlds (and we assume their stars). At best that's 0.001% of the galaxy, at worst it's less than 0.00025% of the galaxy in the hands of the Imperium.

The eldar could have controlled 200 million stars and still only held sway over 5% of the galaxy, or 1.25% (depending on whether there are 100 billion or 400 billion of them).


So the DAoM humanity could have spread out and never encountered the eldar, colonising planets the eldar empire had no interest in. You could easily give DAoM 100 BILLION planets and the prefall eldar 100 BILLION planets and between them they've taken control of 50% of the galaxy. In reality I think it would be far less than that.

But we know that these automata were powerful and numerous enough to suppress every other alien species in the galaxy and keep the eldar in absolute security for however many millennia it took for them to Fall.

The iron men were definitely powerful and dangerous, but it's clear they didn't pose a threat to the eldar empire or the empire would not have maintained its state of security for as long as it did.

IMO it probably had a lot do to with the psychic engines they used to construct things. Wraithbone is a psychically manipulated and grown. So you could plonk a psychic engine on a planet and it taps the warp and has unlimited energy to keep printing wraithguard/lords/titans in endless waves.

 Argive wrote:
well.... Apparently there was a passage in the fluff about how DAOT humanity was so powerful they had a NAP with other major races. So a NAP with orks was apparently feesable.

I would say the Pinnacle of of DAOT would have been getting into lower levels of pre fall eldar.
The flame always burns the brightest before it goes out... This would make the Men of gold, and by same measure men of iron extremely powerful AI.

This could be head-cannon. But it something I remember reading/watching..

 Yvek wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

 Yvek wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.

They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.

Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.

You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.


There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.

There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.

I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.

IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.

Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.

that makes sense. do you remember anything about these automatas? maybe their name

I've never seen an eldar name for them. But they've been mentioned in fluff for decades as the main reason the eldar empire became decadent. With psychic engines that instantly 3d print anything your mind can conceive of, the eldar had nothing to do. Every aspect of their life was taken care of.

They had been around since 60 million years ago and eventually came to dominate a large percentage of the galaxy. There are between 100 and 400 billion stars in our galaxy. the imperium currently controls 1 million+ worlds (and we assume their stars). At best that's 0.001% of the galaxy, at worst it's less than 0.00025% of the galaxy in the hands of the Imperium.

The eldar could have controlled 200 million stars and still only held sway over 5% of the galaxy, or 1.25% (depending on whether there are 100 billion or 400 billion of them).


So the DAoM humanity could have spread out and never encountered the eldar, colonising planets the eldar empire had no interest in. You could easily give DAoM 100 BILLION planets and the prefall eldar 100 BILLION planets and between them they've taken control of 50% of the galaxy. In reality I think it would be far less than that.

But we know that these automata were powerful and numerous enough to suppress every other alien species in the galaxy and keep the eldar in absolute security for however many millennia it took for them to Fall.

The iron men were definitely powerful and dangerous, but it's clear they didn't pose a threat to the eldar empire or the empire would not have maintained its state of security for as long as it did.

IMO it probably had a lot do to with the psychic engines they used to construct things. Wraithbone is a psychically manipulated and grown. So you could plonk a psychic engine on a planet and it taps the warp and has unlimited energy to keep printing wraithguard/lords/titans in endless waves.

that makes a lot of sense. im not familiar with specific lore,only big events and certain stuff,as i only have access to the wikis. i guess it would make sense for them to have met the eldar so little


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:
well.... Apparently there was a passage in the fluff about how DAOT humanity was so powerful they had a NAP with other major races. So a NAP with orks was apparently feesable.

I would say the Pinnacle of of DAOT would have been getting into lower levels of pre fall eldar.
The flame always burns the brightest before it goes out... This would make the Men of gold, and by same measure men of iron extremely powerful AI.

This could be head-cannon. But it something I remember reading/watching..

Whats a NAP? Also,i read somewhere that men of stone were rudimentary generic joe AI,men of iron were smart and strong ai's created by the men of stone and humans,and that the men of gold we're kinda of a subspecies of augmented humans.

mrFickle wrote:
When was the war with the men of iron compared to the birth of slaneesh? I think one followed the other quite quickly which is why many human civilisations couldn’t survive being cut off. Because the MOI had smashed their STC machines.

Almost sounds like chaos helped humanity beat the MOI because they knew that humanity would be a captive audience once slaneesh was born

xerxeskingofking wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
When was the war with the men of iron compared to the birth of slaneesh? I think one followed the other quite quickly which is why many human civilisations couldn’t survive being cut off. Because the MOI had smashed their STC machines.

Almost sounds like chaos helped humanity beat the MOI because they knew that humanity would be a captive audience once slaneesh was born

the men of iron were pre Fall, by several thousand years. The warp storms that screwed humanity in M25, and helped cause the Age of Strife (along with the rebellion of the Men of Iron) were the forerunners of the Birth of Slanessh, but the actual Fall that killed most eldar, and formed the Eye of Terror, was actually in M30, fully 5,000 years later, not long before the start of the Great Crusade (in fact, the Birth of Slanessh was the event that cleared the warp storms and let the Great Crusade actually happen in the first place).

Ironically, their are large parts of the Galaxy where you cant see the Eye of Terror, simply becuase the are so far away that the light simply hasnt reached them yet.

SideSwipe wrote:
Could you list the source material in which those occur? I've never heard of any of it.

beast_gts wrote:

Animus wrote:
And UR-025, while cool and all, is not very impressive, and outmuscled significantly by even the likes of a Kastelan.

Except the short story 'Man of Iron' has UR-025 easily defeating a Kastelan and a couple of tech-priests.

Animus wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:
Could you list the source material in which those occur? I've never heard of any of it.

The Custodes Codex, The Imperial Knight Companion, The Horus Heresy Book Nine - Crusade, Blackstone Fortress.

beast_gts wrote:

Animus wrote:
And UR-025, while cool and all, is not very impressive, and outmuscled significantly by even the likes of a Kastelan.

Except the short story 'Man of Iron' has UR-025 easily defeating a Kastelan and a couple of tech-priests.

Because he betrays them and catches them completely off guard. The Kastelan is bigger, and described as being able to take a blow from his power claw easily, it's only really defeated because of the terrain since it falls off a walkway.

Animus wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:
Could you list the source material in which those occur? I've never heard of any of it.

The Custodes Codex, The Imperial Knight Companion, The Horus Heresy Book Nine - Crusade, Blackstone Fortress.

beast_gts wrote:

Animus wrote:
And UR-025, while cool and all, is not very impressive, and outmuscled significantly by even the likes of a Kastelan.

Except the short story 'Man of Iron' has UR-025 easily defeating a Kastelan and a couple of tech-priests.

Because he betrays them and catches them completely off guard. The Kastelan is bigger, and described as being able to take a blow from his power claw easily, it's only really defeated because of the terrain since it falls off a walkway.

 Argive wrote:
Yeah really its a pipe dream i think at least in this century. Computers certainly are getting much better but we seem to be hitting a wall.

As you say, self learning algorithms and such are all very clever calculators..
I believe if it ever happens a true AI will probably be born from a mixture of both organic brain and computer interface, before taking what we learn there and going to full artificial and synthetic.

But a bunch of rampant self replicating nano bot bacteria going haywire into a generic death mass of doom is a possibility before we gett hat far

cody.d. wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Yeah really its a pipe dream i think at least in this century. Computers certainly are getting much better but we seem to be hitting a wall.

As you say, self learning algorithms and such are all very clever calculators..
I believe if it ever happens a true AI will probably be born from a mixture of both organic brain and computer interface, before taking what we learn there and going to full artificial and synthetic.

But a bunch of rampant self replicating nano bot bacteria going haywire into a generic death mass of doom is a possibility before we gett hat far

You thinking that the infamous grey goo is more likely to come first? Yeah I'd buy that honestly. By design it tends to be a very simple program/machine that could be described as "Seek Resources/Manufacture From Template/Repeat" Can also come in larger designs like Replicators from Stargate. Even though they looked like a kids construction set I remember them being intimidating in a way.

Put them in a galactic setting and they'd likely spread far, far faster than Corona did this year.

Lexicanum wrote:The Excindio were the tortured and neutered remains of murderous Men of Iron, who had been captured by the Emperor's forces and transformed into towering multi-armed Battle-Automata, used by the Dark Angels Legion's Ironwing.

 Snrub wrote:
I don't doubt for a second that some Excindio may be the bastard remnants of Iron Men. But they aren't solely/wholly or even necessarily Men of Iron.

Aash wrote:
Men of Iron is a specific subset of AI, as is men of Gold etc.