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How bad is the cybernetic revolt compared to horus heresy? ive heard that,when compared to the CR,the HH was just a minor skirmish
also,how would the men of iron compare to today's imperium and xenos (eldars,orks,necrons tyranids etc) and against the xenos in their zenith? i always think the MOI looked cool sorry if this question is widely explained in comics or books,because i have no access to them
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/25 17:01:38
It's not well explained, and there's only a handful of sources. The MoI we have game rules for isn't that powerful, but he's stronger in the novels. The DAoT spaceships in 40k novels are very powerful.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Lexicanum - Perpetual (Audio Drama) wrote:They were stuck in Andrioch, a human colony that was once magnificent but was destroyed by the time they arrived. Half of the city was missing, and it sat along a massive chasm that pierced all the way to the planet's core. Persson speculated that the wound could have been formed by powerful weapons used by Iron Men and the human alliances: sun snuffers, mechnavores that could hurl continents, or omniphage swarms that could devour biological matter. In particular, the city was probably destroyed by a mechanvore that was able to wound both the physical and spiritual universe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/25 17:10:58
beast_gts wrote: It's not well explained, and there's only a handful of sources. The MoI we have game rules for isn't that powerful, but he's stronger in the novels. The DAoT spaceships in 40k novels are very powerful.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Lexicanum - Perpetual (Audio Drama) wrote:They were stuck in Andrioch, a human colony that was once magnificent but was destroyed by the time they arrived. Half of the city was missing, and it sat along a massive chasm that pierced all the way to the planet's core. Persson speculated that the wound could have been formed by powerful weapons used by Iron Men and the human alliances: sun snuffers, mechnavores that could hurl continents, or omniphage swarms that could devour biological matter. In particular, the city was probably destroyed by a mechanvore that was able to wound both the physical and spiritual universe.
The mechanvore could damage both the universe and the warp??
Yvek wrote: that fight mustve been brutal,i bet that the men of iron couldve wiped some xenos,because wow. that sounds great
There's some implication that if the Men of Iron hadn't been getting it from both ends by Chaos and the humans they would have won.
thats how ive interpreted it. without chaos,humanity wouldve been powder by now. and if the men of iron reigned supreme,i wonder what would be the effects on the galaxy
The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.
They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.
Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.
You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.
There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.
There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.
I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.
IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.
Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.
Hellebore wrote: The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.
They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.
Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.
You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.
There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.
There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.
I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.
IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.
Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.
that makes sense. do you remember anything about these automatas? maybe their name
Hellebore wrote: The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.
They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.
Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.
You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.
There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.
There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.
I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.
IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.
Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.
that makes sense. do you remember anything about these automatas? maybe their name
I've never seen an eldar name for them. But they've been mentioned in fluff for decades as the main reason the eldar empire became decadent. With psychic engines that instantly 3d print anything your mind can conceive of, the eldar had nothing to do. Every aspect of their life was taken care of.
They had been around since 60 million years ago and eventually came to dominate a large percentage of the galaxy. There are between 100 and 400 billion stars in our galaxy. the imperium currently controls 1 million+ worlds (and we assume their stars). At best that's 0.001% of the galaxy, at worst it's less than 0.00025% of the galaxy in the hands of the Imperium.
The eldar could have controlled 200 million stars and still only held sway over 5% of the galaxy, or 1.25% (depending on whether there are 100 billion or 400 billion of them).
So the DAoM humanity could have spread out and never encountered the eldar, colonising planets the eldar empire had no interest in. You could easily give DAoM 100 BILLION planets and the prefall eldar 100 BILLION planets and between them they've taken control of 50% of the galaxy. In reality I think it would be far less than that.
But we know that these automata were powerful and numerous enough to suppress every other alien species in the galaxy and keep the eldar in absolute security for however many millennia it took for them to Fall.
The iron men were definitely powerful and dangerous, but it's clear they didn't pose a threat to the eldar empire or the empire would not have maintained its state of security for as long as it did.
IMO it probably had a lot do to with the psychic engines they used to construct things. Wraithbone is a psychically manipulated and grown. So you could plonk a psychic engine on a planet and it taps the warp and has unlimited energy to keep printing wraithguard/lords/titans in endless waves.
well.... Apparently there was a passage in the fluff about how DAOT humanity was so powerful they had a NAP with other major races. So a NAP with orks was apparently feesable.
I would say the Pinnacle of of DAOT would have been getting into lower levels of pre fall eldar. The flame always burns the brightest before it goes out... This would make the Men of gold, and by same measure men of iron extremely powerful AI.
This could be head-cannon. But it something I remember reading/watching..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/26 02:44:56
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: well.... Apparently there was a passage in the fluff about how DAOT humanity was so powerful they had a NAP with other major races. So a NAP with orks was apparently feesable.
I would say the Pinnacle of of DAOT would have been getting into lower levels of pre fall eldar.
The flame always burns the brightest before it goes out... This would make the Men of gold, and by same measure men of iron extremely powerful AI.
This could be head-cannon. But it something I remember reading/watching..
there has been some mention of that, although I believe it mostly came from RT era material.
At the point the DAoT humanity was expanding into the galaxy though, the eldar were pretty much sedentary. So a nonagression pact with them would be more like 'here's our border, don't cross it and we won't obliterate you'.
My impression of this point is that the eldar empire was as big as they wanted it to be at this point and they were only interested in keeping themselves completely protected from external aggression.
Hellebore wrote: The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.
They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.
Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.
You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.
There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.
There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.
I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.
IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.
Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.
that makes sense. do you remember anything about these automatas? maybe their name
I've never seen an eldar name for them. But they've been mentioned in fluff for decades as the main reason the eldar empire became decadent. With psychic engines that instantly 3d print anything your mind can conceive of, the eldar had nothing to do. Every aspect of their life was taken care of.
They had been around since 60 million years ago and eventually came to dominate a large percentage of the galaxy. There are between 100 and 400 billion stars in our galaxy. the imperium currently controls 1 million+ worlds (and we assume their stars). At best that's 0.001% of the galaxy, at worst it's less than 0.00025% of the galaxy in the hands of the Imperium.
The eldar could have controlled 200 million stars and still only held sway over 5% of the galaxy, or 1.25% (depending on whether there are 100 billion or 400 billion of them).
So the DAoM humanity could have spread out and never encountered the eldar, colonising planets the eldar empire had no interest in. You could easily give DAoM 100 BILLION planets and the prefall eldar 100 BILLION planets and between them they've taken control of 50% of the galaxy. In reality I think it would be far less than that.
But we know that these automata were powerful and numerous enough to suppress every other alien species in the galaxy and keep the eldar in absolute security for however many millennia it took for them to Fall.
The iron men were definitely powerful and dangerous, but it's clear they didn't pose a threat to the eldar empire or the empire would not have maintained its state of security for as long as it did.
IMO it probably had a lot do to with the psychic engines they used to construct things. Wraithbone is a psychically manipulated and grown. So you could plonk a psychic engine on a planet and it taps the warp and has unlimited energy to keep printing wraithguard/lords/titans in endless waves.
that makes a lot of sense. im not familiar with specific lore,only big events and certain stuff,as i only have access to the wikis. i guess it would make sense for them to have met the eldar so little
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Argive wrote: well.... Apparently there was a passage in the fluff about how DAOT humanity was so powerful they had a NAP with other major races. So a NAP with orks was apparently feesable.
I would say the Pinnacle of of DAOT would have been getting into lower levels of pre fall eldar.
The flame always burns the brightest before it goes out... This would make the Men of gold, and by same measure men of iron extremely powerful AI.
This could be head-cannon. But it something I remember reading/watching..
Whats a NAP? Also,i read somewhere that men of stone were rudimentary generic joe AI,men of iron were smart and strong ai's created by the men of stone and humans,and that the men of gold we're kinda of a subspecies of augmented humans.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/26 02:53:21
Hellebore wrote: The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.
They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.
Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.
You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.
There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.
There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.
I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.
IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.
Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.
that makes sense. do you remember anything about these automatas? maybe their name
I've never seen an eldar name for them. But they've been mentioned in fluff for decades as the main reason the eldar empire became decadent. With psychic engines that instantly 3d print anything your mind can conceive of, the eldar had nothing to do. Every aspect of their life was taken care of.
They had been around since 60 million years ago and eventually came to dominate a large percentage of the galaxy. There are between 100 and 400 billion stars in our galaxy. the imperium currently controls 1 million+ worlds (and we assume their stars). At best that's 0.001% of the galaxy, at worst it's less than 0.00025% of the galaxy in the hands of the Imperium.
The eldar could have controlled 200 million stars and still only held sway over 5% of the galaxy, or 1.25% (depending on whether there are 100 billion or 400 billion of them).
So the DAoM humanity could have spread out and never encountered the eldar, colonising planets the eldar empire had no interest in. You could easily give DAoM 100 BILLION planets and the prefall eldar 100 BILLION planets and between them they've taken control of 50% of the galaxy. In reality I think it would be far less than that.
But we know that these automata were powerful and numerous enough to suppress every other alien species in the galaxy and keep the eldar in absolute security for however many millennia it took for them to Fall.
The iron men were definitely powerful and dangerous, but it's clear they didn't pose a threat to the eldar empire or the empire would not have maintained its state of security for as long as it did.
IMO it probably had a lot do to with the psychic engines they used to construct things. Wraithbone is a psychically manipulated and grown. So you could plonk a psychic engine on a planet and it taps the warp and has unlimited energy to keep printing wraithguard/lords/titans in endless waves.
that makes a lot of sense. im not familiar with specific lore,only big events and certain stuff,as i only have access to the wikis. i guess it would make sense for them to have met the eldar so little
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Argive wrote: well.... Apparently there was a passage in the fluff about how DAOT humanity was so powerful they had a NAP with other major races. So a NAP with orks was apparently feesable.
I would say the Pinnacle of of DAOT would have been getting into lower levels of pre fall eldar.
The flame always burns the brightest before it goes out... This would make the Men of gold, and by same measure men of iron extremely powerful AI.
This could be head-cannon. But it something I remember reading/watching..
Whats a NAP? Also,i read somewhere that men of stone were rudimentary generic joe AI,men of iron were smart and strong ai's created by the men of stone and humans,and that the men of gold we're kinda of a subspecies of augmented humans.
A NAP is a non-aggression pact, so basically saying that humans were strong enough to negotiate peace treaties with alien races so there wasn't any unnecessary bloodshed.
Hellebore wrote: The eldar at their most powerful before the fall, controlled a large portion of the galaxy.
They ignored everyone else and the only reason they were able to, is because they had automata armies that fought their wars by proxy.
Their empire was surrounded by uncounted billions of advanced robotic sentinels that were obviously highly effective at keeping every other species at bay, including the orks.
You don't descend into decadence and debauchery over millennia if you're worried about being overwhelmed by enemies.
There isn't a lot of info on exactly what the eldar automata armies were, but my supposition is that they were basically wraith constructs minus the souls.
There was some technology the eldar lost that enabled them to run unlimited numbers of wraith constructs with some kind of sophisticated programming.
I wouldn't be surprised if the eldar titans are remanants of whole legions of mega robots used to fight proxy wars.
IMO the only reason humanity was able to expand into the universe at all is because the eldar galactic supremacy acted as an ork extermination force, keeping them pushed back to the corners of the galaxy.
Only with the power vacuum the Fall left did the orks begin spreading across the galaxy again.
that makes sense. do you remember anything about these automatas? maybe their name
I've never seen an eldar name for them. But they've been mentioned in fluff for decades as the main reason the eldar empire became decadent. With psychic engines that instantly 3d print anything your mind can conceive of, the eldar had nothing to do. Every aspect of their life was taken care of.
They had been around since 60 million years ago and eventually came to dominate a large percentage of the galaxy. There are between 100 and 400 billion stars in our galaxy. the imperium currently controls 1 million+ worlds (and we assume their stars). At best that's 0.001% of the galaxy, at worst it's less than 0.00025% of the galaxy in the hands of the Imperium.
The eldar could have controlled 200 million stars and still only held sway over 5% of the galaxy, or 1.25% (depending on whether there are 100 billion or 400 billion of them).
So the DAoM humanity could have spread out and never encountered the eldar, colonising planets the eldar empire had no interest in. You could easily give DAoM 100 BILLION planets and the prefall eldar 100 BILLION planets and between them they've taken control of 50% of the galaxy. In reality I think it would be far less than that.
But we know that these automata were powerful and numerous enough to suppress every other alien species in the galaxy and keep the eldar in absolute security for however many millennia it took for them to Fall.
The iron men were definitely powerful and dangerous, but it's clear they didn't pose a threat to the eldar empire or the empire would not have maintained its state of security for as long as it did.
IMO it probably had a lot do to with the psychic engines they used to construct things. Wraithbone is a psychically manipulated and grown. So you could plonk a psychic engine on a planet and it taps the warp and has unlimited energy to keep printing wraithguard/lords/titans in endless waves.
that makes a lot of sense. im not familiar with specific lore,only big events and certain stuff,as i only have access to the wikis. i guess it would make sense for them to have met the eldar so little
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Argive wrote: well.... Apparently there was a passage in the fluff about how DAOT humanity was so powerful they had a NAP with other major races. So a NAP with orks was apparently feesable.
I would say the Pinnacle of of DAOT would have been getting into lower levels of pre fall eldar.
The flame always burns the brightest before it goes out... This would make the Men of gold, and by same measure men of iron extremely powerful AI.
This could be head-cannon. But it something I remember reading/watching..
Whats a NAP? Also,i read somewhere that men of stone were rudimentary generic joe AI,men of iron were smart and strong ai's created by the men of stone and humans,and that the men of gold we're kinda of a subspecies of augmented humans.
A NAP is a non-aggression pact, so basically saying that humans were strong enough to negotiate peace treaties with alien races so there wasn't any unnecessary bloodshed.
Yes sorry should have explained the acronym my bad.
"the old lore" is somewhat hit and miss so I wouldint take it as strict canon if there is such a thing in 40k or if its even important to you..
But if true, what it suggests that the civilisation utilising the AI tech was galaxy empire stretching the entire galaxy and was strong enough and mature enough to be able to handle something like a non agression pact with hte most dominant elder race thats been arounf for millions of years.
It was mentioned by the cabal that other races just kind of stood back and were like "woa.. humanity.. whatya doing there... okay we just gunna watch coz you scary..."
However successful, it was a very short lived sucess and ultimately humanity failed. Although this has less to do with men of iron and more to do with dabbling in with warp genetics/psykers and the fall of the eldar itself..
After all the original crusade is to remake the empire from the remnants and the pathetic ashes left over rather then forge a whole new thing. and i the IOM is vast now it is but a shadow of the former self.
Anyway the Golden age humanity has essentially burst in a blink of the eye through the whole galaxy and almost at the same time collapsed. We are talking probably maybe few centuries at most
For those older races like the ones living inside gas giants and stuff thats a mere moment which would have been terrifying. The technology and the AI needed to achieve that would have been godlike. The men of iron interestingly enough, by all accounts were not created by humans directly as such but rather created for humans by the AI humans created... Like a tool creating a another tool to do rhe job it was tasked to do.. Men of iron seem to be more like actual semi automatons/golems getting bit too much intelligence. I can imagine them being able to interface with ships and titans but the real powerhouse would have been the True non affixed AI. The men of gold.
Ironically its kind of an actual question being asked in current decade a lot more than it was in the 80s...A lot of people are afraid when it comes to AI and self learning/self teaching AI programs people are attempting.
If we make AI that surprasses us, what sort of thing would that AI make in turn and how we would not even understand what it was.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I honestly still have doubts if a proper AI is possible. We misuse the term a lot nowdays for basic programs. Like the ones that control characters in video games. It's meant to emulate reactions but is limited in the extreme.
To create a computer program that can teach itself anything outside of the small area of it's function does seem like pure sci fi for the foreseeable future. A program meant to react to A/B/C isn't going to know how to react to a D let along a 1 or input outside of it's programming.
Upon saying that, if an AI was created and given full access to materials and manufacturing it's likely we'd be dead in short order. Kind of like a more metallic version of the Tyranid Hivemind. Actually maybe that's what the nids are? A fleshy AI from galaxy that's consumed everything there and is now expanding out to ours.
Yeah really its a pipe dream i think at least in this century. Computers certainly are getting much better but we seem to be hitting a wall.
As you say, self learning algorithms and such are all very clever calculators..
I believe if it ever happens a true AI will probably be born from a mixture of both organic brain and computer interface, before taking what we learn there and going to full artificial and synthetic.
But a bunch of rampant self replicating nano bot bacteria going haywire into a generic death mass of doom is a possibility before we gett hat far
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
When was the war with the men of iron compared to the birth of slaneesh? I think one followed the other quite quickly which is why many human civilisations couldn’t survive being cut off. Because the MOI had smashed their STC machines.
Almost sounds like chaos helped humanity beat the MOI because they knew that humanity would be a captive audience once slaneesh was born
mrFickle wrote: When was the war with the men of iron compared to the birth of slaneesh? I think one followed the other quite quickly which is why many human civilisations couldn’t survive being cut off. Because the MOI had smashed their STC machines.
Almost sounds like chaos helped humanity beat the MOI because they knew that humanity would be a captive audience once slaneesh was born
i read it in a wiki talking about robots. the reason the age of strife was so horrible is because the cybernetic revolt basically damned humanity. they didnt know how to use their technology already,and the birth of slaneesh destroyed the last things that were still standing
The age of strife and the dark age of technology where separate events. Humanity relied far more on tech back then so when the safe aware AI apocalypse happened they where screwed. I think I read somewhere that a great deal of why the Imperium looks the way it does is to limit the amount of damage technology could do if it went rouge. The Emperor made his armies of flesh and blood, not robots, as a direct result. Probably because he lived through the dark age of technology and saw the weakness of overly relying on tech. As to the age of strife it was mostly a side effect of humanities psychic potential developing. Deamons find out they can use human psykers to form portals to the material world and so every psyker becomes a potential demonic infestation. Almost destroyed humanity as a whole. The age of strife is the reason the Inquisition works the way it does. Of course the black ships are the main psyker round ups for the throne but it's enforced by the Inquisiton.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/26 13:35:15
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary.
mrFickle wrote: When was the war with the men of iron compared to the birth of slaneesh? I think one followed the other quite quickly which is why many human civilisations couldn’t survive being cut off. Because the MOI had smashed their STC machines.
Almost sounds like chaos helped humanity beat the MOI because they knew that humanity would be a captive audience once slaneesh was born
the men of iron were pre Fall, by several thousand years. The warp storms that screwed humanity in M25, and helped cause the Age of Strife (along with the rebellion of the Men of Iron) were the forerunners of the Birth of Slanessh, but the actual Fall that killed most eldar, and formed the Eye of Terror, was actually in M30, fully 5,000 years later, not long before the start of the Great Crusade (in fact, the Birth of Slanessh was the event that cleared the warp storms and let the Great Crusade actually happen in the first place).
Ironically, their are large parts of the Galaxy where you cant see the Eye of Terror, simply becuase the are so far away that the light simply hasnt reached them yet.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Argive wrote: Yeah really its a pipe dream i think at least in this century. Computers certainly are getting much better but we seem to be hitting a wall.
As you say, self learning algorithms and such are all very clever calculators..
I believe if it ever happens a true AI will probably be born from a mixture of both organic brain and computer interface, before taking what we learn there and going to full artificial and synthetic.
But a bunch of rampant self replicating nano bot bacteria going haywire into a generic death mass of doom is a possibility before we gett hat far
You thinking that the infamous grey goo is more likely to come first? Yeah I'd buy that honestly. By design it tends to be a very simple program/machine that could be described as "Seek Resources/Manufacture From Template/Repeat" Can also come in larger designs like Replicators from Stargate. Even though they looked like a kids construction set I remember them being intimidating in a way.
Put them in a galactic setting and they'd likely spread far, far faster than Corona did this year.
mrFickle wrote: When was the war with the men of iron compared to the birth of slaneesh? I think one followed the other quite quickly which is why many human civilisations couldn’t survive being cut off. Because the MOI had smashed their STC machines.
Almost sounds like chaos helped humanity beat the MOI because they knew that humanity would be a captive audience once slaneesh was born
the men of iron were pre Fall, by several thousand years. The warp storms that screwed humanity in M25, and helped cause the Age of Strife (along with the rebellion of the Men of Iron) were the forerunners of the Birth of Slanessh, but the actual Fall that killed most eldar, and formed the Eye of Terror, was actually in M30, fully 5,000 years later, not long before the start of the Great Crusade (in fact, the Birth of Slanessh was the event that cleared the warp storms and let the Great Crusade actually happen in the first place).
Ironically, their are large parts of the Galaxy where you cant see the Eye of Terror, simply becuase the are so far away that the light simply hasnt reached them yet.
This is where it gets confusing to me, because some of the MOI fluff was written before gw changed the date of the fall from ancient history to during humanity's existence. Fluff that was written with the pre fall eldar empire being nothing more than a footnote now has to be interpreted to explain their coexistence, when that wasn't originally meant to be a thing.
mrFickle wrote: When was the war with the men of iron compared to the birth of slaneesh? I think one followed the other quite quickly which is why many human civilisations couldn’t survive being cut off. Because the MOI had smashed their STC machines.
Almost sounds like chaos helped humanity beat the MOI because they knew that humanity would be a captive audience once slaneesh was born
the men of iron were pre Fall, by several thousand years. The warp storms that screwed humanity in M25, and helped cause the Age of Strife (along with the rebellion of the Men of Iron) were the forerunners of the Birth of Slanessh, but the actual Fall that killed most eldar, and formed the Eye of Terror, was actually in M30, fully 5,000 years later, not long before the start of the Great Crusade (in fact, the Birth of Slanessh was the event that cleared the warp storms and let the Great Crusade actually happen in the first place).
Ironically, their are large parts of the Galaxy where you cant see the Eye of Terror, simply becuase the are so far away that the light simply hasnt reached them yet.
This is where it gets confusing to me, because some of the MOI fluff was written before gw changed the date of the fall from ancient history to during humanity's existence. Fluff that was written with the pre fall eldar empire being nothing more than a footnote now has to be interpreted to explain their coexistence, when that wasn't originally meant to be a thing.
I've not read anything that describes the fall as being ancient. The 2nd ed codex has it at ~30th millennium
mrFickle wrote: When was the war with the men of iron compared to the birth of slaneesh? I think one followed the other quite quickly which is why many human civilisations couldn’t survive being cut off. Because the MOI had smashed their STC machines.
Almost sounds like chaos helped humanity beat the MOI because they knew that humanity would be a captive audience once slaneesh was born
the men of iron were pre Fall, by several thousand years. The warp storms that screwed humanity in M25, and helped cause the Age of Strife (along with the rebellion of the Men of Iron) were the forerunners of the Birth of Slanessh, but the actual Fall that killed most eldar, and formed the Eye of Terror, was actually in M30, fully 5,000 years later, not long before the start of the Great Crusade (in fact, the Birth of Slanessh was the event that cleared the warp storms and let the Great Crusade actually happen in the first place).
Ironically, their are large parts of the Galaxy where you cant see the Eye of Terror, simply becuase the are so far away that the light simply hasnt reached them yet.
This is where it gets confusing to me, because some of the MOI fluff was written before gw changed the date of the fall from ancient history to during humanity's existence. Fluff that was written with the pre fall eldar empire being nothing more than a footnote now has to be interpreted to explain their coexistence, when that wasn't originally meant to be a thing.
I've not read anything that describes the fall as being ancient. The 2nd ed codex has it at ~30th millennium
You're absolutely right. Guess this is a case of me mixing up headcanon and actual canon over the years. Thanks for correcting me!
Edit: spoilered quote tree
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/27 09:50:37
Generally I find the Men of Iron to be overblown by the fans, they get the occasional mention in the current setting and don't seem too special.
The Custodes codex doesn't put them down as the primary factor in the fall of the old human empire.
The Imperial Knight Rarthanis takes on a whole city full of them and comes out on top.
The Dark Angels had a bunch of them enslaved at the time of the Horus Heresy, and who knows maybe still do.
And UR-025, while cool and all, is not very impressive, and outmuscled significantly by even the likes of a Kastelan.
Eldar- 4436 pts
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
