Pilau Rice wrote:
I think it's highly likely that they had every intention of remaining loyal to the Emperor, if we go with the version of events that transpired in the Heresy novel Legion. However it's quite clear that there is individual agenda appearing now that could possibly lead to the Alpha Legion fracturing and having it's on internal war, becoming the Chaos Legion we know today.

 Just Dave wrote:

I don't think it's quite an individual agenda, rather than conflicting priorities/motivations between the two Primarchs.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:

I don't think it's quite an individual agenda, rather than conflicting priorities/motivations between the two Primarchs.

Isn't that what an individual agenda is, when you go along with your own intention rather than that of a laid out plan set by another, that's what any mean anyway, Omegon isn't following the same train of thought as Alpharius.

Omegon has got something in store for the Legion that doesn't necessarily fit with what Alpharius has in mind, well, that's the impression I have at least.

Why should we trust you Dave, have you inside information or are you an Alpha Legion operative?

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:

I don't think it's quite an individual agenda, rather than conflicting priorities/motivations between the two Primarchs.

Isn't that what an individual agenda is, when you go along with your own intention rather than that of a laid out plan set by another, that's what any mean anyway, Omegon isn't following the same train of thought as Alpharius.

Omegon has got something in store for the Legion that doesn't necessarily fit with what Alpharius has in mind, well, that's the impression I have at least.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:

I don't think it's quite an individual agenda, rather than conflicting priorities/motivations between the two Primarchs.

Isn't that what an individual agenda is, when you go along with your own intention rather than that of a laid out plan set by another, that's what any mean anyway, Omegon isn't following the same train of thought as Alpharius.

Omegon has got something in store for the Legion that doesn't necessarily fit with what Alpharius has in mind, well, that's the impression I have at least.

Why should we trust you Dave, have you inside information or are you an Alpha Legion operative?

Are you not an operative?

Iracundus wrote:
If you look at Alpha Legion background in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, it describes how they started waging their own campaign and setting their own military objectives without real reference to what others were doing.

Their "degeneration" may take a different form. They may very well still think they are fighting for a goal, but they may be deceiving themselves. They may set military objectives as if they were still fighting some organized campaign, but the real objective may simply be to cause random mayhem. They may have lost their true purpose without knowing it.

For example, they may justify raiding and blowing up Imperial supply depots or capturing interstellar transports as disrupting the Imperium's supply lines, but their true effect on the overall logistical situation may be minor, insignificant or irrelevant (if for example the sector has surplus capacity or is not actively engaged in war). In reality, it may just be piracy under a different name, even if they don't themselves believe it to be such.

Even those in the Alpha Legion that believe themselves loyalists in the long run may succumb to this erosion of purpose. Their attacks might be justified as "serving the long term interests of humanity and the Emperor", even though it really just amounts to smash and grab raiding.

With their decentralized structure, it may also be a situation of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Instead of any coherent plan, they might just be individual units acting like any other warband, though in this case they might still be convinced they are serving some higher purpose.

 Ailaros wrote:
Haven't read the HH books, but there's no possible way they're not traitor marines. Plus, they are the enemy #1 of regular space marines, and for pretty good reasons.

Plus, just look at their tagline in the new codex "The Imperium is riddled with corruption and hatred. We have made sure of it."

Not exactly a pro-imperium kind of stance.

 greg0985 wrote:
convoluted and idiotic.

What do you guys think?

 greg0985 wrote:
A lot of good ideas put forward here. I guess I'd have to agree with what some of you keep saying. We all know Chaos corrupts absolutely, and that the 'Road to hell is paved with good intentions.' So while they may have sided with Horus to help cause the eventual fall of chaos, they obviously failed. And being in such close proximity to so much chaotic influences, they may have knowingly sold their souls to help, but in the end just lost their souls with no gains to show for it.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
A shame it makes Alpharius look like a simpleton.

 Just Dave wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
A shame it makes Alpharius look like a simpleton.

I don't see how...

Animus wrote:
We also see in Deliverance Lost that the Alpha Legion grunts have no idea why they're rebelling and are just doing it because Alpharius said so. And of course by M41 we've seen lots of corruption among them.

King Pariah wrote:These loyalist cells would almost certainly have the capacity to evade being massacred (unlike the poor bastards on Istvaan III) and could still exist in the 41st millenium waging a mostly unseen guerilla war against the traitor elements.

 Ailaros wrote:

King Pariah wrote:These loyalist cells would almost certainly have the capacity to evade being massacred (unlike the poor bastards on Istvaan III) and could still exist in the 41st millenium waging a mostly unseen guerilla war against the traitor elements.

But that was 10,000 years ago. By now all of those original fighters would have long since died of old age, much less battle. Without a reliable way of restocking themselves, these splinter groups would have long since vanished.

Not to say that there aren't CSM who believe what they're doing is for the betterment of mankind, but in those cases they see the imperium as being the disease, which still makes them traitor marines.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I assume you are referring to him following a bunch pf Xenos?