ccs wrote:
My 1st impression was "Goddam, there's more rules involved in playing SM than there are in playing the game...."
And thats before I read a single unit.

BrianDavion wrote:
in terms of rules clarity etc the marine codex is great. no complaints whatsoever there myself.

Breton wrote:
I can take or leave the 1AP, the big thing was the +1A on chainswords.

I would have enjoyed seeing them monkey with doctrines on a per chapter basis i.e. Ravenguard start in Assault and Go backwards, or Start in Dev, go to Assault, then go to Tactical since first player first turn charges might be problematic, and they'd probably still have a round of "softening up" with the heavy boys in the back.

Imperial Fists could go Dev, Tac, Dev, Tac, Assault

White Scars might go Tac Assault Tac Assault Dev.

Each First Founding Chapter might have its own pattern through the three Doctrines.

Breton wrote:
Chapter Command I.e. the one captain rule doesn’t apply if you soup the detachment to IMPERIUM or otherwise make it not an Adeptus Astartes Det. Of course that’s fairly academic. Everything you lose doing that is worth far more.

The tech marine plasma cutter is almost never going to be supercharged, probably should have been 1 mortal wound.

 Super Ready wrote:

The plasma cutter is something I noticed about Mephiston with his plasma pistol, too. I could see a case for making it 2 mortal wounds, based on Hellblasters taking that much damage when they fail...

 bullyboy wrote:
The plasma cutter is basically like the old Azrael and Sammael. Never overcharging. Now, both of them have MC plasma which count as overcharging all the time with no ill effects.

 Super Ready wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The plasma cutter is basically like the old Azrael and Sammael. Never overcharging. Now, both of them have MC plasma which count as overcharging all the time with no ill effects.

I... don't think you're looking at the same rules I am? Page 139 in the new Marine Codex, the non-Primaris Techmarine (the Primaris one can't take the plasma cutter).
Has a supercharge profile that kills the Techmarine outright on a 1.

 bullyboy wrote:
Correct, which is how Azrael and Sammael used to be. Now they have MC ones and don't die. I guess the techy needs to stop giving all the good stuff away.

 Super Ready wrote:

...did... did Reivers just become useful?!

 Slowroll wrote:
Marines:

-The regular Apothecary takes a large nerf (Needs to use a strategem to revive a "dead" guy), still not great when upgraded, but massively buffed when made your Warlord. Strange way to go about it, did it really need to be nerfed in the first place?

Breton wrote:
There are going to be a lot of people making honest mistakes resulting in an illegal list because of this sort of thing.

The Salt Mine wrote:
Attack bikes with multi melta lol. Basicly an eradicator with 9 inches more movement, an extra wound, can splitfire without penalty, and comes with 4 extra bolter shots for 10 more points than an eradicator with heavy melta rifle. Calling it now you are going to see top finishing lists with so many of these things.

Breton wrote:

The Salt Mine wrote:
Attack bikes with multi melta lol. Basicly an eradicator with 9 inches more movement, an extra wound, can splitfire without penalty, and comes with 4 extra bolter shots for 10 more points than an eradicator with heavy melta rifle. Calling it now you are going to see top finishing lists with so many of these things.

I was calling that more than a month ago and people shouted me down because they either hated Marines or were that angry at Eradicators or both. The regular Speeder with MM too...

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Breton wrote:

The Salt Mine wrote:
Attack bikes with multi melta lol. Basicly an eradicator with 9 inches more movement, an extra wound, can splitfire without penalty, and comes with 4 extra bolter shots for 10 more points than an eradicator with heavy melta rifle. Calling it now you are going to see top finishing lists with so many of these things.

I was calling that more than a month ago and people shouted me down because they either hated Marines or were that angry at Eradicators or both. The regular Speeder with MM too...

No Infantry type is limiting from a terrain standpoint, the Eradicators can pay 5pts/model for +2 damage to all shots, they get one double-shooting multi-melta per squad, and you can't necessarily use the mobility if you want to use the buff auras available to you.

Not saying Attack Bikes aren't also good, but I don't think it's a cut-and-dried strictly-better situation.

 Dysartes wrote:
...if I take a Scout unit with the SPACE WOLVES Chapter keyword, WTF does the plasma pistol for a guy in the unit (not the Sergeant) have to be paired with a boltgun, not a combat blade?

When we got the not-brilliant metal Wolf Scouts during late 2nd or early 3rd, there doesn't seem to have been one with a plasma pistol. If you are building the guy from the plastic Scouts, there's an arm on the Blood Claws kit specifically to give you a Wolf Scout with Plasma Pistol - and with the Scout kit not giving you a one-arm boltgun for the model's left arm, or a slung boltgun, for that matter, it doesn't look like you can even build that as a legal load.

It's a very weird restriction to put on there.

 Dysartes wrote:
Ah - none of them showed up in the 2006 catalogue I was looking at on SOL, just the bolt pistol guys and a couple of special weapon dudes.

I did think I'd remembered them, but when they weren't listed...

Point stands, though - if this restriction is meant to mirror released models, someone done goofed.

 Super Ready wrote:
Ooh, here's something. Psychic powers appear to have types now... didn't spot it reading the powers themselves, only thanks to its mention in the glossary on page 207.
Three types - at least for Marines, thus far - Blessing, Malediction or Witchfire. I don't think these terms actually do anything just yet - I see no mention of them in the Core book's psychic rules, nor does Smite itself have a type as yet.

 Super Ready wrote:
Ooh, here's something. Psychic powers appear to have types now... didn't spot it reading the powers themselves, only thanks to its mention in the glossary on page 207.
Three types - at least for Marines, thus far - Blessing, Malediction or Witchfire. I don't think these terms actually do anything just yet - I see no mention of them in the Core book's psychic rules, nor does Smite itself have a type as yet.

 Kithail wrote:
I am wondering if double chainsword VV could be a thing. 2 attacks base +2 for the chainsword +1 shock assault makes a hefty 26 attacks AP1 for a unit of 5, even better if you run 6 and add a krak grenade and a meltabomb strat into it. They can blend units and put hurt unto light vehicles.

 Kithail wrote:
I am wondering if double chainsword VV could be a thing. 2 attacks base +2 for the chainsword +1 shock assault makes a hefty 26 attacks AP1 for a unit of 5, even better if you run 6 and add a krak grenade and a meltabomb strat into it. They can blend units and put hurt unto light vehicles.

Breton wrote:
Maybe you can't do it. As near as I can tell there technically isn't a Pistols List. There isn't a Melee Weapons List. Chainsword isn't on the unit points list because it's free. There's no location to find and add a chainsword. Of course, layout for GW books lately hasn't worked the same way my brain does so maybe I just can't find it.

 Dysartes wrote:

Breton wrote:
Maybe you can't do it. As near as I can tell there technically isn't a Pistols List. There isn't a Melee Weapons List. Chainsword isn't on the unit points list because it's free. There's no location to find and add a chainsword. Of course, layout for GW books lately hasn't worked the same way my brain does so maybe I just can't find it.

Page 195, opposite the bunker.

Wakshaani wrote:
The Hammerfall Bunker is terrifying.

Does the rule of three apply to fortifications? Can you bring 9 of those things and just walk away with the easiest win ever?

a_typical_hero wrote:

Why do you think the bunker is bonkers? Isn't it that you only get one fortification detachment with three slots? I have to say I never looked into it that much and detachment rules are not part of my CA rulebook

Breton wrote:
I think you can only take the detachment once. You can take up to three fortifications per det.

 Kithail wrote:
I also noticed the turret is BS 2+ and ignores movement penalty. Not bad for an autocannon platform. I am wondering if playing 3 is worth it

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Eh, it's just the Sicaran's main gun, but without rending, 2 less shots, the high movement, and, most importantly, being mounted to that gorgeous piece of armour. Big Meh.

Breton wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Eh, it's just the Sicaran's main gun, but without rending, 2 less shots, the high movement, and, most importantly, being mounted to that gorgeous piece of armour. Big Meh.

Its two of the Suppresor's Main Gun. Which should cause people to go back and look at the Suppressor and decide maybe they can have a stand alone kit now.

5 Devs, with 4 HB's will run about 1/2 of XYZ points. Theyll get 12 s5 -1 2D shots, at 4T 5x2W Same cost gets you 16 S5 -3 and either 1D or 2D, 3 of these Turrets are.... not as cheap as I Thought, I just caught myself, I was doing the dumb math with the new pricing structute. You don't get a refund. You don't get AB points back because they didn't take the more expensive talon. You just pay the base price. Sorry still getting used to the sometimes this, sometimes that pricing structure. 3 of these guys are minimum XYZ not XYZ -AB for not having Lastalons. I did it right the first time, but forgot when I did it this time I saw the unit, then did it wrong this time. That's not bad, but its also not good. 3 of them with Lastalons though is more than a Repulsor Executioner. Ouch. Anyway to continue the comparison 3 of these guys get 18 S7 -1 2D for T5 15W and a 2+ - Again not bad, but I'm not sure it's attractive enough to replace other options. Perhaps when/if Primaris get a Pod, and you can fit three of them in a pod. But probably not, I think the old marine pod lost the ability to drop TFC's too.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Ok, so suppressors each have half the Sicaran's main gun minus rend, etc., etc.. I'd still prefer the assault version mounted on the wicked fast and sweet looking tank. But you do you. And I thought you preferred mobility in your units.

Breton wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Ok, so suppressors each have half the Sicaran's main gun minus rend, etc., etc.. I'd still prefer the assault version mounted on the wicked fast and sweet looking tank. But you do you. And I thought you preferred mobility in your units.

I prefer Mobility on my melta units.

And I said people, not just me.

Which should cause people to go back and look at the Suppressor and decide maybe they can have a stand alone kit now

Plus Suppressors are those Vanguard Jump troops. They have mobility.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:


Yeah, I know. I thought the passing reference to them was just in reference to where the turret got its guns from. I was comparing the Sicaran to the turret, which your stream of consciousness paragraph was about. Sorry for the confusion.

And those "jump troops" are almost as goofy looking as the "ATV" (those boots!).

 Leth wrote:
I think people are still stuck in the 8th way of winning missions and once covid ends and peop,e actually get to get some games in their perceptions of units will change.

What really stood out to me was that I will definitely be taking at least two infiltrator units every game. The amount of board control they provide can’t be denied.

Same with Servitors. For 30 points they give us objectives/area denial/scramblers and the like, something sorely missed from marine lists since we are much more expensive now with fewer bodies.

Breton wrote:


Yeah the Sicarran is going to be interesting now that there's "main" book Accelerator Autocannons (and Twins). Do they conform, stay a seperate same name different stat line, or do they become "Sicarran Twin Acce..." well you get the idea - STAC's.

You should see the ETB Inceptors. I absolutely hate those boots.

The Sergeant having a freaking SCOPE on his Hip Fired Autocannon is funnier than the bellbottom cowboy booster boots.

But rules wise they did get a pretty decent fix even with a roughly 20% price bump. or 2% decrease or single point per 3 increase depending on where you get the points costs from and how (Their points costs are all over the board) - but they fell pretty flat pretty hard on release. Trading 1 AP for an extra shot, plus getting a boost to their somewhat situational special rule to on hit vs on casualty gives them a niche you can defend taking them from.

2 sets of 3 Suppresors are 75% of the cost of 3 Turrets with TAACs. With some durability issues going both directions.

If we assume for the sake of argument/hypothesizing the Sicarran conforms instead of staying the same/seperate: It's a Relic in the Elite slot, Suppressors are in the FA slot, and the Turrets are in the HS slot. There are probably worse ideas than overdosing on the Accelerator Autocannon. That'll net you 21 Accelerator Autocannons - 63 S7 -1 2D shots - for about 1100-1200 points plus a bunch of Heavy bolter shots, another 27 or so S5 -1 2D shots, (Assuming 1 FOC of 3 Turrets - they are kind of expensive) Pack the Troops slot with Assault Intercessors to get your close combat and obsec. You need a few non Relic Elites to unlock the Sics. Potentially some anti-tank (Combi grav + 2 Heavy Grav Sternguard?) or more close combat. It's not a bad list and Grav + Rail Guns called Autocannon fit the "theme" you could be going for. It doesn't sound bad at all.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think people are still stuck in the 8th way of winning missions and once covid ends and peop,e actually get to get some games in their perceptions of units will change.

What really stood out to me was that I will definitely be taking at least two infiltrator units every game. The amount of board control they provide can’t be denied.

Same with Servitors. For 30 points they give us objectives/area denial/scramblers and the like, something sorely missed from marine lists since we are much more expensive now with fewer bodies.

\
you figure on 5 or ten man infiltrator squads BTW?